Ask Our Northern Neighbors Whether Higher Minimum Wages Kill Jobs

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: pexx421

You seemed to have left out "corrupt" for Govt.

The Govt first has to be corrupt to allow others to run it.

Not if it has been entrenched for decades. A Clinton quote:

“There’s a secret government, inside the government…and I don’t control it.”

truth11.com...

What this has to do with minimum wage I have NO idea.

a reply to: intrepid

So it just magically appeared. It had no start somewhere.


Interesting.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: intrepid

So it just magically appeared. It had no start somewhere.


Interesting.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?



He's a Republican so the "source" shouldn't be a problem for you.

a reply to: intrepid

It still required a corrupt Govt to allow it to happen.


Not that difficult to understand.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: intrepid

It still required a corrupt Govt to allow it to happen.


Not that difficult to understand.

And BOTH party's responsible for corruption should be rooted out punished/eliminated.

A business should still be subject to the law alongside politicians. And there BOTH should be held responsible for there actions.

originally posted by: macman
Not that difficult to understand.

For some apparently is. IF I thought for a moment what I would put forth to make this OBVIOUS and taken seriously I would point out how corps have manipulated the gov FOREVER but I just read a post by Springer and his siggy spoke to me.

a reply to: macman well, there is a certain amount of corruption in all systems. However, when you allow a certain small part of the population to amass the huge amounts of wealth as we have allowed, then they will inevitably use that wealth to buy the system itself. Now we come to the point where the whole system is bought....and you want to quibble about bumping the poor a few bucks up, meanwhile the wealthy just use their legislative power to BUY their own raises. But you'd rather worry about the poor, because a group who is desperately trying to survive and has no say in government is apparently a much bigger threat to you than a group who is massively wealthy, has total control of your political system, and measures the value of human life in dollar signs. Who willingly pushes to send you off to wars to die and get maimed so they can get more profit. Who willingly destroy your market and economy with shenanigans, vaporizing your retirement and 401k and sending millions of americans into bankruptcy and foreclosure so that they can consolidate their ownership in a mad grab of all the companies that were failing for pennies on the dollar....

a reply to: crazyewok

I agree.

a reply to: intrepid

The Govt still opened the door. They were in charge of it.

Business just walked through.

a reply to: pexx421

The Govt is still the starting point.

Business doesn't have the direct ability to jail people, tax people or enforce laws.

All on the Govt.

Remove the corrupt Govt, and you stop the ability of Corporations from doing what they are doing.

a reply to: macman

Are you saying that when the colonies rallied together and formed a congress and pulled together a constitution that they were all corrupt to begin with ?

a reply to: CranialSponge

It started somewhere.

Things just don't materialize from nothing.

Where it started???

Don't know.

a reply to: macman

I suspect all it took was one corrupt snake on the inside to slowly open the doors to allow the rest of his snakey brethen in, one by one, to infect the nest.

Unbeknownst to the rest of the hive.

Next thing you know, the snakes are the majority.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Hey, I'm just pointing out the obvious.

Govt, by it's nature, is there to continue to grow and obtain power.

Companies, by it's nature, is there to make a profit.

As Govt grows, it becomes more corrupt. This is inevitable.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Also, the founders knew that Govt would want to grow and end up corrupted. That is why they put in stop measures for this.

Since those measures have been subverted, we have what we have. A corrupt, ever growing and taxing Fed Govt.

a reply to: macman
That's because we're a fascist nation where business and government collude against the people. Thomas Jefferson had a solution for this....a revolution every 20 years. We are long overdue.

a reply to: pexx421

The revolt is/was supposed to be at the ballot box.

I am not exactly one looking for violent revolution.

a reply to: macman no, I think he specifically meant revolutions. Voting was already part of our government. Anyhow, the only reason a revolution would need to turn violent was if the government was using violence to hold onto its power. I'm sure ours would never do such a thing.

From what I’ve read, there’s no consensus amongst economists regarding truly significant effects on the economy by raising the minimum wage. Some will say that X number of people will lose their jobs. Mostly it would affect low-skill jobs held by young people. Others will say that the increased demand due to the extra money circulating will tend to offset the job losses because other companies will need to hire more workers to satisfy it. Then there’s all kinds of research/data that breaks down, and attempts to place a value on, the type of workers being affected by a wage increase. For instance, does a family of 4 making minimum wage deserve greater consideration than a high school kid flipping burgers part-time after school? In other words, which is more important? Providing a living wage (above poverty level) to the family of 4 by increasing the minimum wage, or making sure the kid keeps his part-time job after school at slave rates? And then there are thousands of other studies breaking things down even further.

Bottom line is, if our best economists can’t agree on a “best solution”, then I damn well can’t. But, I do have a gut feeling about it, and I’m with the 75% of Americans who think there should be a minimum wage increase. As the OP pointed out, those states who have raised the minimum wage have shown no increase in unemployment numbers as a consequence. I believe this is also consistent with the results of raising the minimum wage in this country in the past. Of the other developed countries in the world, who also each have a minimum wage, the US ranked down near the bottom of the list for minimum/median wage in 2012. Our standard of living in the US was once amongst the best in the world - not anymore.

How obvious does it have to get for people to realize that the fat cats and corporations are completely in control here? While they’re making out like bandits and enjoying record profit margins, the rest of the workforce is fighting over the scraps. Over the past 40 years the average median income, inflation adjusted, has risen a measley 10%, while the top 1% of income earners have enjoyed a 300+% increase in wages. According to the Economic Policy Institute, from 1978 to 2013, CEO pay at American firms rose (get this!) a staggering 937%, compared with 10.2% growth in worker compensation over the same period, all adjusted for inflation. In 2013, the average CEO pay at the top 350 U.S. companies was $15.2 million. And then to add insult to injury, these state sanctioned theives have the audacity to claim that they can’t possibly afford to pay their workers 10 bucks/hr, or provide them with adequate health coverage.

Let’s see now, what’s wrong with this picture? Hmmm... That’s a tough one.

I just don’t understand the attitude/reasoning of those who are against raising the minimum wage, or even having a minimum wage at all. It almost seems like a slumlord/tenant type of relationship. Is it that some folks are afraid that if they free the slave class from the grip of poverty, the underlings will then rise up and rob them of their ill-gotten booty? If so, then relax; that won’t happen. I have a feeling the Walton family could provide it’s workers with a living wage, as well as decent healthcare coverage, continue to offer great deals to it’s consumers, all while maintaining a comfortable standard of living. After all, CostCo did it. And if you’re a small business and can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage, I’d say you need to come up with a better business plan.

I’m not going to get into a big debate over this issue. I’ve already stated that I don’t know the best solution. I do know, however, that it’s obscene that a person can work a 40hr week in this country and still be considered under the poverty level. That’s just not right - it’s not only immoral, but it contributes to economic instability, as well. The elite need to stop hoarding all the resources and contribute to the stability and growth of this nation. It’s part of the cost of living in a civilized society. And don’t tell me that companies are being taxed to death - that’s simply not true. General Electric, as well as many other Fortune 500 companies, didn’t pay a dime in federal taxes last year. Did you? Personally, I pay a small fortune in taxes every year, but I’m not whining about it. It beats struggling to survive on Walmart wages...

Getting back to the original premise, just look at the economy. We hardly felt the recession. That had a lot to do with banking regulations but we're doing fine. The minimum wage($11.00/hr I think) is doing well for us.