Ask Our Northern Neighbors Whether Higher Minimum Wages Kill Jobs

a reply to: macman

Taxes are the real economic killers.

Keep the money out of the hands of the government and our economy will get better by default.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: AlaskanDad

The US is not Canada.

If people like what Canada is doing, the door is just to the North, for most.

For you, head East.


Just because something may appear to work for another country, does not then in turn work for another.

What are you saying Mac? A good idea from somewhere else becomes a bad idea? Finding something positive in another country means you are a traitor? Anyone that questions the status quo should leave? Sometimes you can't progress without change and a good idea is a good idea no matter the source. Some people may have a stake in keeping things exactly as they are now though.

a reply to: peck420

Its changed barely anything at all the other times we raised it.....

a reply to: [post=18609289]Hoosierdaddy71[

Sorry but i have to jump in here . Your argument about walmart having to pay taxes when they don't have to ,then trying to back it up with would you pay extra taxes if you didn't have to is so self defeating it is laughable . The very fact that people employed by walmart are on benefits means that the people are already paying taxes that they shouldnt have to . In other words the small person is paying taxes to support the people employed by walmart that cant get by with what they are getting paid . Every cent being paid to support these people is another cent profit by the owners .

a reply to: Painterz

WOW. That is about the most foolish and ignorant statement I have heard today.

Just because something works elsewhere does NOT mean it works every else.

Please, do yourself a favor and go and look at history spanning the last 100 years. There are countless examples where trying to implement something from another country fails miserably in others.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Pitou

Your right. I mean, what is the point of working to provide for yourself.

Since getting a better paying job seems to be out of the question. Probably best just to sit back and allow others to provide for you.

You seem to think there is a Job Fairy that people can request employment from. Your economy isn't in the best shape and just GETTING a job isn't easy.

Never said it was easy. In fact, life isn't easy.

And in my state, there are plenty of jobs to pick from.

a reply to: AgentShillington

Oh, so selective outrage then.

Very interesting.

originally posted by: jaxnmarko

What are you saying Mac? A good idea from somewhere else becomes a bad idea?

A good idea elsewhere is a good idea there.
It doesn't work where the situation is not the exact same.

originally posted by: jaxnmarko

Finding something positive in another country means you are a traitor?

Geez, way to go off the deep end. At what point did I say anything about being a traitor.

originally posted by: jaxnmarko
Anyone that questions the status quo should leave?

Questioning is not the issue.
Forcing the country to go against the Constitution, and common sense is the issue.
If someone wants Socialism, Communism or what ever, stop being narcissistic and move to where that is. Instead of forcing others to go with it.

originally posted by: jaxnmarko

Sometimes you can't progress without change and a good idea is a good idea no matter the source. Some people may have a stake in keeping things exactly as they are now though.

Change is allowed to happen, it is outlined in the founding documents.

our model is supposed to work a certain way. We live in a system where inflation is a built in definite. So, we created CPI in order to measure it, and every job is supposed to get regular cost adjustment increases, where the dollar amount of their wages is supposed to increase commensurate with inflation, ie they get paid more dollars but are actually making the same amount. Sadly, this does not happen, so while inflation skyrockets, and their wages stay the same, they are making less and less over time doing the same job. Further, the job system was supposed to have annual reviews and raises based upon performance....but for the last 6 years most employers have used the "rough market" as an excuse to reduce or completely deny any raises. At the same time as our wages are not being matched to CPI and inflation, and we are being denied raises, the corporate world and stock markets profits have been soaring like never before.

To sum it up, companies are making more money than ever, and stocks are profiting like crazy, yet at the same time the companies are making excuses to pay less wages and reducing benefits as well. This is what is known as swindling, and is an exploitation of the workers. People who do not recognize this, and who argue against the workers getting the fair share of the profit that THEY HAVE WORKED FOR are enablers, who are helping the massively wealthy to perpetrate a massive shift of money in our country from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.

To add an FYI, if the minimum wage had increased at the same rate as the official CPI over the last 30 years, it would be about 10 dollars an hour now. If, however, it had increased at the same rate as the ACTUAL inflation and cpi rate, it would be closer to 20 dollars an hour. So what you see here is that the wealthy have stolen about 70% of the workers share.

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71 To correct your post, it would not just boost the 1.6 million making minimum wage (and those beneath). It would also instantly boost all the people making slightly more than minimum. Plus many of the 100,000,000 of unemployed americans would probably enter the work market with more fair wages being offered, and that would be a phenomenal boost to our economy, as fully 1/3 of our working age unemployed americans might enter the workforce and begin spending money, and then their welfare and medicare no longer have to be paid for by tax dollars. Also we would be taking all those making minimum wage off of social benefits....More tax dollars freed up!

heres an idea. Lets think for a moment about what happens when minimum wage doesn't go up. Inflation continues to increase, meaning that more and more people up the dollar pay scale chain slip into needing government assistance every year, as the cost of food goes up, gas prices jump, and rent continues to increase. That requires vastly more taxes to be allocated to social programs just so people can meet basic needs. Of course, by that point there is no disposable income, so businesses start making less and less sales, and wind up having to be federally subsidized which means more taxation. Poverty increases dramatically, as does drug use and crime, and medical bills start expanding too, as people are not able to care for themselves or have a nutritious diet, and suffer from vitamin deficiencies, disease, and depression. Hm. Sounds familiar.

a reply to: SaneThinking


"I live in CANADA as you can see from my profile and we have one of the most useless entitled looking for handouts socialist group of morons up here touting the same ideals. "

Yea, they're called newfies.

originally posted by: Pitou
What is the point of having a job and working fulltime anyway when you can't live off the income you earn?

the point is to fill the pockets, and increase the bank balances of, the greedy. screw the needy. it's their choice, according to some of the bright lights here.

ok ...well here's what I'm personally experiencing...and I'm still homeless...

yes it's great that the minimum wage is going up, problem is, everything else goes up, food, clothing and housing ..you know the big 3 to stay alive...

at $12.00/hr in Oregon, with a car...you're barely scraping by .. without a car...i'm not sure what to say..

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: AlaskanDad

Fair is now what used to be forced. What a joke.

Fair is what the market pays. Not what a Govt states as the "minimum" someone should be paid for a job.


Seeing that with the US Govt sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong again, like Health care, has never "helped" anyone except Govt, you can keep the Canadian ways. If you want them, feel free to move to them.

and what is this so-called "market" of which you speak....maybe these 85 people have a hand in controlling the "market"
www.businessweek.com...

originally posted by: Komodo
ok ...well here's what I'm personally experiencing...and I'm still homeless...

yes it's great that the minimum wage is going up, problem is, everything else goes up, food, clothing and housing ..you know the big 3 to stay alive...

at $12.00/hr in Oregon, with a car...you're barely scraping by .. without a car...i'm not sure what to say..

if people haven't noticed, "everything else" goes up regardless of what the minimum wage is....the federal minimum wage hasn't gone up in seven years, who here thinks that prices have stayed at the same level for 7 years?

a reply to: Komodo Yes, the prices do go up....but they don't go up a dollar for dollar amount. They go up by the labor percentage increase amount. So if labor goes up, say, 30%, the workers are making 30% more, but the costs go up by 30% of the labor cost (which usually runs between 20-30%) which would put the increased costs of things at about 10%...in other words the workers still get a gain of 20% purchasing power, which can make a big difference to them...and to the businesses that they now have to spend that money on. Further, this is only for things where labor is a large percentage of the cost. Things like rent or mortgage should not be attached to that increase, but they are because our market forces, ACTUAL market forces, are a joke perpetrated upon consumers by companies using nothing more than words and fearmongering. Things like services, however, cell phone, utilities, which are low labor percentage, should not go up nearly as much, as their costs of doing business are affected by a much smaller amount.

a reply to: jimmyx

Yes, because "Bloomberg News" is always the best source for such things.


Guess you prefer a corrupt Govt to try to run business. Instead of business running business.

a reply to: macman actually what we have here is corrupt business running government.

a reply to: pexx421

You seemed to have left out "corrupt" for Govt.

The Govt first has to be corrupt to allow others to run it.