Forgotten Human History

a reply to: Hanslune

Pumpkinworks and I have been stating that the cultural similarities are due to a much earlier shared culture in Central Asia assisted by living in a similar environment.

This is where Hans and I start to differ.

Since the recent genetic work shows that Ameridians split from the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) population before it split into west and east eurasians, and since Ust Ishim dates to 40k + and he lived just after or st the time of the split, that puts it at a minimum of 40k+.
So, if you subscribe to a longer generational period for the accumulation of mutations, this could be pushed back to 75k and as far back as 125k or more. With a split this deep in time the linguistic and cultural similarities have to be the product of a more recent back migration of Ameridians into Eurasia, on the order of 12k ish and possibly another movement in during the Holocene.

 On the surface this might seem to be a stretch, but when you factor in the accepted Na Dene-Yensise language connection is at the root of the branching of Eurasian language families, and that Amerindian DNA haplogroups, in derived forms, show up in Eurasia both in modern people and in historic remains, the idea is much more palatable.


  

a reply to: Wolfenz

Howdy Wolfenz

Your post are to say the least, chaotic.

While the Norse did a number of voyages to NA their is no evidence that the Sami or the people from NA did so. There is no evidence of a NA to Europe trade route. There were sporadic contacts between the Norse and the people the called teh Skraeling, mainly hostile. The Norse (from Greenland) were looking for wood mainly.

I'm going to skip over your inclusion of Byrd and the Piri Reis......and a bunch of other 'stuff'.

I'll try one more time to have coherent discussion with you, if you could please re-state what your claim it, right now the goal posts are moving hither and yond. It was my understanding that your claim was this, or at least this is what you initially posted:

Im talking about no Link in Race but Close to Identical of Culture Compare the Canadian Northen Cree & Norway Laplander ( SAMI ) Culture Way of Life.. as a Communication of Something just maybe ... In all Trade Routes around the inner Circle of the Arctic is more likely Like Before , thousands of years ago

The Norse did not exist 'thousands of years ago". See if you can clarify what you are trying to get across.

a reply to: Harte

"You really need to utilize a different ***** source. One that allows you to back date before literate cultures existed, since there are plenty of records predating 2,000 BC, yet none mention any huge nuclear war."

To the contrary! Ancient India, with their long Creation Myths speaking of airship "vimanas" and many "battles in the sky", had a horrific nuclear war between 8,000 and 12,000 years ago. And the research only continues, with the evidence mounting:

sinais2012.blogspot.com...
ANCIENT NUCLEAR WAR AMONG INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATIONS
"There is evidence that the Rama empire (now India) was devastated by nuclear war. The Indus valley is now the Thar desert, and the site of the radioactive ash found west of Jodhpur is around there. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

"For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators’ gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is also fragmentary evidence that there may have been nuclear explosions in Ancient Mesopotamia as well. Some layers of sand melted into green glass have been found. But the most powerful testimony are in their Lamentations, which clearly describe a nuclear attack:

www.gatewaystobabylon.com...
LAMENTATIONS IN SUMER
"79-92 The dark time was roasted by hailstones and flames. The bright time was wiped out by a shadow. (2 mss. add 2 lines: On that bloody day, mouths were crushed, heads were crashed. The storm was a harrow coming from above, the city was struck by a hoe.) On that day, heaven rumbled, the earth trembled, the storm worked without respite.

"Heaven was darkened, it was covered by a shadow; the mountains roared. Utu lay down at the horizon, dust passed over the mountains. Nanna lay at the zenith, the people were afraid. The city ...... stepped outside. The foreigners in the city even chased away its dead. Large trees were uprooted, the forest growth was ripped out. The orchards were stripped of their fruit, they were cleaned of their offshoots. The crop drowned while it was still on the stalk, the yield of the grain diminished. (3 lines fragmentary)"

(NOTE: There is more to this long lamentation, but the above passages clearly seem to be describing a nuclear bomb detonation:
~ "the bright time was wiped out by shadow", seems to refer to the detonation flash and subsequent "fallout" as airborne radioactive dust
~ "Heaven was darkened, it was covered by a shadow; the mountains roared," seems to describe the "nuclear winter" effect of airborne radioactive dust, that can circle the globe for years and prevent sunlight from reaching the Earth and allowing photosynthesis. And "the mountains roared" could describe the sound reverberation of that initial blast, reflected off the mountains.
~ "The storm was a harrow coming from above, the city was struck by a hoe", seems to describe a bomb dropped from above, the impact creating both an impact crater and outward blast of dirt.
~ "Large trees were uprooted, the forest growth was ripped out," seems to describe the outward blast pattern, with the trees further away not being uprooted but "stripped of their fruit ... cleaned of their offshoots.")

a reply to: MKMoniker

Well no.

Here is a challenge for you: find a real factual piece of scientific data that supports your idea. Opinions from questionable sites isn't scientific evidence nor is deliberate misinterpretations of ancient writings. If you have anything that comes from Childress - it's nonsense.

Harte knows a great deal about those Indian writings, you might want to read what he says.

I see you put in one part of one of the famous laments for clearer context here is the part you skipped over

1-2 To overturn the appointed times, to obliterate the divine plans, the storms gather to strike like a flood.

3-11 (and 55)An, Enlil, Enki and Ninhursaja (2 mss. have instead: Ninmah) have decided its fate -- to overturn the divine powers of Sumer, to lock up the favourable reign in its home, to destroy the city, to destroy the house, to destroy the cattle-pen, to level the sheepfold; that the cattle should not stand in the pen, that the sheep should not multiply in the fold, that watercourses should carry brackish water, that weeds should grow in the fertile fields, that mourning plants should grow in the open country,

12-21that the mother should not seek out her child, that the father should not say "O my dear wife!", that the junior wife should take no joy in his embrace, that the young child should not grow vigorous on his knee, that the wet-nurse should not sing lullabies; to change the location of kingship, to defile the seeking of oracles, to take kingship away from the Land, to cast the eye of the storm on all the land, to obliterate the divine plans by the order of An and Enlil;

22-26after An had frowned upon all the lands, after Enlil had looked favourably on an enemy land, after Nintud had scattered the creatures that she had created, after Enkihad altered the course of the Tigris and Euphrates, after Utuhad cast his curse on the roads and highways;

27-37so as to obliterate the divine powers of Sumer, to change its preordained plans, to alienate the divine powers of the reign of kingship of Urim, to humiliate the princely son in his house E-kic-nu-jal, to break up the unity of the people of Nanna, numerous as ewes; to change the food offerings of Urim, the shrine of magnificent food offerings; that its people should no longer dwell in their quarters, that they should be given over to live in an inimical place; that Cimacki and Elam, the enemy, should dwell in their place; that its shepherd, in his own palace, should be captured by the enemy, that Ibbi-Suen should be taken to the land Elam in fetters, that from Mount Zabu on the edge of the sea to the borders of Ancan, like a swallow that has flown from its house, he should never return to his city;

38-46that on the two banks of the Tigris and of the Euphrates bad weeds should grow, that no one should set out on the road, that no one should seek out the highway, that the city and its settled surroundings should be razed to ruin-mounds; that its numerous black-headed people should be slaughtered; that the hoe should not attack the fertile fields, that seed should not be planted in the ground, that the melody of the cowherds' songs should not resound in the open country, that butter and cheese should not be made in the cattle-pen, that dung should not be stacked on the ground, that the shepherd should not enclose the sacred sheepfold with a fence, that the song of the churning should not resound in the sheepfold;

47-55to decimate the animals of the open country, to finish off all living things, that the four-legged creatures of Cakkan should lay no more dung on the ground, that the marshes should be so dry as to be full of cracks and have no new seed, that sickly-headed reeds should grow in the reed-beds, that they should be covered by a stinking morass, that there should be no new growth in the orchards, that it should all collapse by itself -- so as quickly to subdue Urim like a roped ox, to bow its neck to the ground: the great charging wild bull, confident in its own strength, the primeval city of lordship and kingship, built on sacred ground.

56-57Its fate cannot be changed. Who can overturn it? It is the command of An and Enlil. Who can oppose it?

58-68An frightened the very dwellings of Sumer, the people were afraid. Enlilblew an evil storm, silence lay upon the city. Nintud bolted the door of the storehouses of the Land. Enki blocked the water in the Tigris and the Euphrates. Ututook away the pronouncement of equity and justice. Inanahanded over victory in strife and battle to a rebellious land. Ninjirsu poured Sumeraway like milk to the dogs. Turmoil descended upon the Land, something that no one had ever known, something unseen, which had no name, something that could not be fathomed. The lands were confused in their fear. The god of the city turned away, its shepherd vanished.

69-78The people, in their fear, breathed only with difficulty. The storm immobilised them, the storm did not let them return. There was no return for them, the time of captivity did not pass. What did Enlil, the shepherd of the black-headed people, do? Enlil, to destroy the loyal households, to decimate the loyal men, to put the evil eye on the sons of the loyal men, on the first-born, Enlil then sent down Gutium from the mountains. Their advance was as the flood of Enlil that cannot be withstood. The great wind of the countryside filled the countryside, it advanced before them. The extensive countryside was destroyed, no one moved about there.

I don't know about you but it sounds like a God sent storm and punishment.


Material is from the same link provided by MKmoniker

a reply to: SLAYER69

I was thinking about your thread today slayer and how the vegetation had once been better in areas with Pyramids in them and remember reading something years ago about Pyramids being used for terra-forming a planet because of their affect on the local enviroment when they are fully functioning and about the vegetation around the mysterious cauldrons in Siberia being of huge proportions .

The mummies in China with European features and didn't appear to be the ancestors of modern-day Chinese people. Archaeologists now think they may have been the citizens of an ancient civilization that existed at the crossroads between China and Europe.

www.pbs.org...

"the Great White Pyramid" of China is as tall as New York's Empire State Building, and TWICE as large as the Great Pyramid of Egypt?

www.earthquest.co.uk...

Why doesn't China turn these pyramids into tourist attractions, like the Great Wall?
a 2011 DNA test even proved that Egyptian King Tut shares common ancestry with 70% of British men, and 50% of all European men? It was the Aryans who civilized India, Aryans arrived in western China long before the Chinese did. , The oldest mummies are DNA-confirmed Whites, some with red hair and even blonde hair. One mummy is 6' 6" inches tall! so the white race got about .

I can remember a documentary years ago on the television that said they were shocked when tests had shown that it was fro the south of FRANCE that the red Indian genes and Siberians had come from what shocked e ore was this was said on British television and that discovery seemed to shock them to

a reply to: MKMoniker

Except that at Mohenjo Daro some of the walls are still 15 feet high. How a mud brick wall withstands a nuclear blast never seems to be addressed. Then there is the BS regarding the multitude of bodies decimated in the alleged nuclear strike. If it were a sudden nuclear strike, why were there only 37 bodies? And where is a source or citation that's not a blog post lacking citations, that verifies or supports the allegation of radioactivity at the site or on the human remains? those making the claims might require some education on the concept of radioactive half-life and its operation over a timespan of 3,500 years(the usual claimed time frame for,this event as opposed to your 8KY claim). That's over 115 half-lives for Sr-90 and Cs-137, the main sources of radioactivity in fallout. 115 half-lives results in a dilution of 4.1538x10^34 to one — beyond homeopathic dilutions. And that's even before dilution by wind scattering. One common claim is that the sand around the city had vitrified similar to the trinity site in New Mexico. However, what was actually found was the dumping ground for broken pots that were often made by vitrifying sand in a kiln.

a reply to: douglas5

Howdy I've run out of time but let me address one thing you posted

"the Great White Pyramid" of China is as tall as New York's Empire State Building, and TWICE as large as the Great Pyramid of Egypt?

lol, no not even close. Chinese pyramids are made of mud and soil, flat topped. There is no pyramid anywhere near that size.

a reply to: Hanslune

"Here is a challenge for you: find a real factual piece of scientific data that supports your idea."

I HAVE! Any reasonable adult who reads what I posted before, and am going to post below, should certainly start thinking that the possibility really exists, of nuclear war in ancient pre-history.

www.ajithkumar.cc...
NUCLEAR WARFARE IN ANCIENT INDIA - THE PROOFS BEYOND DOUBT
"Julius Robert Oppenheimer is remembered as "The Father of the Atomic Bomb." In his first year as an undergraduate at Harvrd, Oppenheimer was admitted to graduate standing in physis on the basis of independent study. In 1933, he learned sanskrit and met the Indologist Arthur Ryder at Berkeley. He read the Gita in sanskrit. He later developed a keen interest on ancient texts of India. later he cited his visit to india as the most influential thing in his life. He once answered a student question that Yes, there were A-bomb programs before Alamagordo."

www.beforeus.com...
ANCIENT INDUS RIVER VALLEY CIVILIZATIONS
"Practically nothing is known of their histories, except that both were destroyed suddenly. In Mohenjo-Daro, in an epicentre 150 feet wide, everything was crystallised, fused or melted; 180 feet from the center the bricks are melted on one side, indicating a blast.

"Excavations down to the street level revealed 44 scattered skeletons, as if doom had come so suddenly they could not get to their houses. All the skeletons were flattened to the ground. A father, mother and child were found flattened in the street, face down and still holding hands.

"The Mahabharata (is a) document of 200 verses was translated completely by 1884. Although it dates in its present form to 500 BC, textual evidence indicates that it refers to events that occurred 1500 to 2500 BC. This ancient document recounts in detail how aircraft were used to launch a weapon that devastated three cities. The record is unnervingly similar to an eyewitness report of an atomic bomb explosion. It describes:

Ø The brightness of the blast
Ø the column of rising smoke and fire
Ø the fallout
Ø intense shockwaves and heatwaves
Ø the appearance of the victims
Ø the effects of radiation poisoning

(NOTE: Compare the above from the Mahabharata to the later Lamentations from Mesopotamia. These were eye-witness reports of nuclear detonations that match in most details. No one knew what to make of them, until after the U.S. bombed Japan in WWII.

(So the "evidence" is multi-sourced and overwhelming. And your well-worn disinfo techniques of "always criticize their sources," while you play GoodCop/BadCop with Harte, is laughable. So now the "burden of dismissal" is on you two. Explain, point by point, how any other conclusion can be reached based on all the data I've posted in these three posts.)

originally posted by: MKMoniker
a reply to: Harte

"You really need to utilize a different ***** source. One that allows you to back date before literate cultures existed, since there are plenty of records predating 2,000 BC, yet none mention any huge nuclear war."

To the contrary! Ancient India, with their long Creation Myths speaking of airship "vimanas" and many "battles in the sky", had a horrific nuclear war between 8,000 and 12,000 years ago. And the research only continues, with the evidence mounting:

No oral tradition mythology has ever been shown to have lasted 10,000 years. The Mahabharata story can be dated by astronomical events it describes.

Yiou really have bnever even looked into this, have you?

originally posted by: MKMoniker
sinais2012.blogspot.com...
ANCIENT NUCLEAR WAR AMONG INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATIONS
"There is evidence that the Rama empire (now India) was devastated by nuclear war. The Indus valley is now the Thar desert, and the site of the radioactive ash found west of Jodhpur is around there. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.

"For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators’ gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people."

Debunked as fake a thousand times here and elswhere by me an a great many others. Original source is Rense.

There is also fragmentary evidence that there may have been nuclear explosions in Ancient Mesopotamia as well. Some layers of sand melted into green glass have been found. But the most powerful testimony are in their Lamentations, which clearly describe a nuclear attack:

Libyan desert glass, and other similar glasses always are found in the debris field of a meteoric strike.

I started a thread many years ago on the crater thought responsible of the glass in Libya. Show me some from the Indus Valley.

www.gatewaystobabylon.com...
LAMENTATIONS IN SUMER
"79-92 The dark time was roasted by hailstones and flames. The bright time was wiped out by a shadow. (2 mss. add 2 lines: On that bloody day, mouths were crushed, heads were crashed. The storm was a harrow coming from above, the city was struck by a hoe.) On that day, heaven rumbled, the earth trembled, the storm worked without respite.

"Heaven was darkened, it was covered by a shadow; the mountains roared. Utu lay down at the horizon, dust passed over the mountains. Nanna lay at the zenith, the people were afraid. The city ...... stepped outside. The foreigners in the city even chased away its dead. Large trees were uprooted, the forest growth was ripped out. The orchards were stripped of their fruit, they were cleaned of their offshoots. The crop drowned while it was still on the stalk, the yield of the grain diminished. (3 lines fragmentary)"

(NOTE: There is more to this long lamentation, but the above passages clearly seem to be describing a nuclear bomb detonation:
~ "the bright time was wiped out by shadow", seems to refer to the detonation flash and subsequent "fallout" as airborne radioactive dust
~ "Heaven was darkened, it was covered by a shadow; the mountains roared," seems to describe the "nuclear winter" effect of airborne radioactive dust, that can circle the globe for years and prevent sunlight from reaching the Earth and allowing photosynthesis. And "the mountains roared" could describe the sound reverberation of that initial blast, reflected off the mountains.
~ "The storm was a harrow coming from above, the city was struck by a hoe", seems to describe a bomb dropped from above, the impact creating both an impact crater and outward blast of dirt.
~ "Large trees were uprooted, the forest growth was ripped out," seems to describe the outward blast pattern, with the trees further away not being uprooted but "stripped of their fruit ... cleaned of their offshoots.")

Description of a storm. Look into the Sumerian hoe and whose symbol it was.

Harte

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: douglas5

Howdy I've run out of time but let me address one thing you posted

"the Great White Pyramid" of China is as tall as New York's Empire State Building, and TWICE as large as the Great Pyramid of Egypt?

lol, no not even close. Chinese pyramids are made of mud and soil, flat topped. There is no pyramid anywhere near that size.

no flat top pyramid there ,The first photo of a Chinese pyramid was taken in 1945 at the end of World War II. This White Pyramid is located in the Qin Ling Shan mountains about 60 miles Southwest of Xi'an. The photo was in the files of the US Military for 45 years before it became public knowledge.

The Chinese gov are taking the tops of them and covering the in trees to blend them in with the terrain just like the Egyptians we are told broke the cornerstones of the pyramids and the Chinese burned all their astronomical charts dating back 1000s of years back in the 13th century when all the crusades were going on

In 1912, Fred Meyer Schroder and Oscar Maman, both were travel agents, reported an incredible building that they had seen in China. According to their report the big pyramid is about 1,000 feet high and roughly 1,500 feet at the base, which makes it twice as large as any pyramid in Egypt. The four faces of the structure are oriented with the compass points.

archaeology.knoji.com...





you need to try doogle instead of google www.doogle.org...

a reply to: peter vlar

You did a good job lifting your post from Rationalwiki. But you did raise some good questions:

"If it were a sudden nuclear strike, why were there only 37 bodies?"
(Obviously, other victims either ran away in a panic to die elsewhere. Or, at the epicenter, their bodies were vaporized. I remember reading about that bombed plane crash in Scotland, where no trace was ever found of a little girl at the epicenter. Also,this was the lowest layer of that Indus Valley city, and those that built over it may have removed and buried the bodies elsewhere.)

"Those making the claims might require some education on the concept of radioactive half-life and its operation over a timespan of 3,500 years(the usual claimed time frame for,this event as opposed to your 8KY claim)."
(Yeah, and Chernobyl was supposed to be "liveable" again by now, wasn't it?)

veda.wikidot.com...
ANCIENT CITY FOUND IN INDIA IRRADIATED FROM ATOMIC BLAST
Has References - including a very good essay by Philip Coppens

originally posted by: douglas5


lol, no not even close. Chinese pyramids are made of mud and soil, flat topped. There is no pyramid anywhere near that size.

Howdy Douglas

First my apologies for my brief earlier posting I got called away before I could complete it

no flat top pyramid there ,The first photo of a Chinese pyramid was taken in 1945 at the end of World War II. This White Pyramid is located in the Qin Ling Shan mountains about 60 miles Southwest of Xi'an. The photo was in the files of the US Military for 45 years before it became public knowledge.

The 'white pyramid' the one I was discussing is flat topped

this is I understand the original photo and not the one you posted.

The Chinese gov are taking the tops of them and covering the in trees to blend them in with the terrain just like the Egyptians we are told broke the cornerstones of the pyramids and the Chinese burned all their astronomical charts dating back 1000s of years back in the 13th century when all the crusades were going on

Are they now, evidence? Did the Chinese burn their astronomical charts in the 13th century? I haven't heard that they did but they did burn a lot of books in 213 BCE is that what you meant?

In 1912, Fred Meyer Schroder and Oscar Maman, both were travel agents, reported an incredible building that they had seen in China. According to their report the big pyramid is about 1,000 feet high and roughly 1,500 feet at the base, which makes it twice as large as any pyramid in Egypt. The four faces of the structure are oriented with the compass points.

That's the story but guess what no confirmation of said story AFAIK . So it should be easy to confirm off satellite photos.....

Anything?

originally posted by: darkstar57
to maltese5...
a reply to: Maltese5Rhino
I am fascinated by the Hal Saflieni Hypogeum..in which 7000 skeletons of homo capensis were interred...when found in 1902. I cannot now find the Jesuit report or the Zammit report on line. and the book by Heindorff is not available either. two palentologists who saved two capensis skulls cannot be found either. now here is the current strangeness. Karen Hudes, 20 years the atty for the World Bank, refers to Capensis hiding in the Vatican and likely controlling the Vatican bank. what is your view on the Capensis...Hypogeum connection?????

With Hal Saflieni Hypogeum there is alot of 'problems' with the site. Most records show around 7000 figure mark for Skeletons found but actuall 'Elongated Skulls' or Capensis found there was only a couple. Then since the era of Alien Interest ive noticed that many 'recent' pages online are stating that all 7000 skeletons had elongated skulls. Where this isnt true. There were elongated skulls but in no near 7000 mark, the original figure was literally only a few. They were documented at the time. I have only ever found a few pictures which only show a couple (no more than 3) The majority of the Skeletons are infact in Valletta the capital in storage along with the severall other burial site finds across the island.

Also the elongated skulls are not the same I beleive to the ones you mentioned supposed to be in the Vatican...



That said I beleive without a doubt that it was the Church that caused alot more problems. The site was at first presumed to be a Christian Complex, built around the time of Saint Pauls arrival.

Now bare in mind this Site was in near constant use for thousands of years till only a few hundred years ago. Hence the vast amounts of space of the complex and its occupants.

Which was fine to assume as the entrance had Christian Motifs and many of the first sets of Skeletons even had Crucifixs burried with them. Which caused a slight bit of chaos once a few deformed Skulls were found and the deeper into the tunnels you went, the less 'Christian' the site was and became more 'Pagan' to right at the very darkest corners what could only be described as 'Hades' Which is Possible that many details of the original finds in the site were tampered with or destroyed. What makes me doubt that anything was destroyed was down to the fact there was still vast amounts of evidence to argue against a Christian Burial Place. Then again..... The skulls are missing arent they?

Which I think thats all it came to. The skulls were removed as they did not fit well with being in a Christian complex. Malta untill recently considered deformity the sign of the devil and any child born with a defect was kept in the family homes for the rest of thier lives.

To give you an Idea, I had asthma as a child..... Family and Friends said to my mother that your child was not baptised before leaving the house. So he breathed in the devils air and now has asthma.

TBH the skulls found at the complex if were even a 100 deformed skulls out of 7000 would be comparable to todays figures for genetic issues. Let alone the Hypogium had supposedly less than a hand full of deformed skulls. Nothing out of the ordinary IMO.

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: Wolfenz

Howdy Wolfenz

Your post are to say the least, chaotic.

While the Norse did a number of voyages to NA their is no evidence that the Sami or the people from NA did so. There is no evidence of a NA to Europe trade route. There were sporadic contacts between the Norse and the people the called teh Skraeling, mainly hostile. The Norse (from Greenland) were looking for wood mainly.

I'm going to skip over your inclusion of Byrd and the Piri Reis......and a bunch of other 'stuff'.

I'll try one more time to have coherent discussion with you, if you could please re-state what your claim it, right now the goal posts are moving hither and yond. It was my understanding that your claim was this, or at least this is what you initially posted:

Im talking about no Link in Race but Close to Identical of Culture Compare the Canadian Northen Cree & Norway Laplander ( SAMI ) Culture Way of Life.. as a Communication of Something just maybe ... In all Trade Routes around the inner Circle of the Arctic is more likely Like Before , thousands of years ago

The Norse did not exist 'thousands of years ago". See if you can clarify what you are trying to get across.

WOW .. Seriously .. Depends how Confusing you make it out to be ..

How Can your be So sure.. about the Trade Routes ? Did some Time Traveling to make Sure did ya..?

Well Seeing they Have the Same Type of Culture Same way of Life among other things Before The Norse..

My Side the Mohawk Side Doesn't Believe the ONLY ONE WAY BS Bering Trait Theory.

What they Do Believe is what I have have been saying a Long of a One Nomadic Culture Different Races

You Might want to explain why the Culture between the Two is so Remarkably similar ?

as you made the Attempt of having a Theory of the Basic Tools ..Common knowledge kind of instinct. but i kinda was showing you the rest of the detail that not common knowledge.. You know.. Those Smoke/Sweat Houses and Cradle Boards Teepee and such you know... the Connection, In other words Contact They Met. Crossed, Interact Etc..
with one another .

Troll Much?

Im talking about no Link in Race but Close to Identical of Culture Compare the Canadian Northen Cree & Norway Laplander ( SAMI ) Culture Way of Life.. as a Communication of Something just maybe ... In all Trade Routes around the inner Circle of the Arctic is more likely Like Before , thousands of years ago

and if you Look I SAID ""MAYBE""" Dot saying fact just a Theory a " Good Guess " if you will

A Communication of Something Just Maybe...( Pause ) .. In All Trade Routes around the Inner Circle ...

You do Know about the Arctic Circle Theory Right ?

But according to the NY Times .. Talking about the Laplanders aka SAMI

They believe they were here before the Swedish, Finnish or even Viking culture had developed, and that their land, long classed by Norway as ''ownerless,'' is rightfully theirs.

Just Like what Northern Native Americans Mohawk's and Cree's Do

Researchers have found they have no genetic resemblance to any other people. ''The Samis are about language and culture, they are not about a tribe wandering in from the East,'' said Audhild Schanche, an anthropologist at the Nordic Sami Institute in Kautokeino.

www.nytimes.com...


But to answer your Question about Ancient Trade Routes to may Help a bit .. just a bit

have to get on a Russian Site to find out

Relics of Ancient Burial Rites Reveal Siberian Trade Route

By Charles Q. Choi
Jan. 16 2004 00:0
www.themoscowtimes.com...

Among 34 shallow graves were five mummies shrouded in copper and blankets of reindeer, beaver, wolverine or bear fur. Unlike the remains of Egyptian pharaohs, the scientists say, the Siberian bodies were mummified by accident. The cold, dry permafrost preserved the remains, and the copper may have helped prevent oxidation.

The discovery adds to the evidence that Siberia was not an isolated wasteland but a crossroads of international trade and cultural diversity, Dr. Natalya Fyodorova of the Ural branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences said during an interview in her office in this central Russian city.

Dr. William Fitzhugh, chairman of the department of anthropology and director of the Arctic Studies Center at the Smithsonian, who in 1997 took part in the first expedition to the site, said the findings filled "a gap we really need to know a lot about."

What I can Say is.. there is just a Possibly there was a 3rd party and that Party is the Inuit aka Eskimo Which has Spread all around the Arctic Circle as in Siberia, North America ( Both Pacific and Atlantic Sides ) and GREENLAND! that did mingle with the Cree & met up with the Sami.. (I should Know as Cree's & Inuits have Been Conflicting
though out Canada for the Past Century just as the Cree's with the Mohawks been conflicting which i have both go figure! ) So In Away My Ancient Trade Route Theory is True in away That Nomadic Traveler Trader The Inuit ( Eskimo ) ..


Now Let's look at this Map Again !

Inuit Inuit Inuit !! BTW the Chuckchi & The Nenets are like the Inuits



but between the longhouses of the Norsemen and the Iroquois Mohawks looking quite the same ..
and a recent discovery of remains of a Viking settlement in Newfoundland pretty much explains that ..


Interesting


Re: Are Lappland Sami and Alaskan Inuit of same haplogroup?
www.madsci.org...


Note the Line that goes from Norway to Iceland to Northern Canada
the Breakage/Dotted Line

Interesting The X haplogroup

originally posted by: Wolfenz


WOW .. Seriously .. Depends how Confusing you make it out to be ..

Constantly bringing up side issues and not actually discussing the issue

How Can your be So sure.. about the Trade Routes ? Did some Time Traveling to make Sure did ya..?

Evidence and the lack of evidence, read the saga to see what the Norse from Iceland and Greenland were doing in NA.

Well Seeing they Have the Same Type of Culture Same way of Life among other things Before The Norse..

Then why did you bring them up?

My Side the Mohawk Side Doesn't Believe the ONLY ONE WAY BS Bering Trait Theory.

Then show evidence that they came another way

What they Do Believe is what I have have been saying a Long of a One Nomadic Culture Different Races

You Might want to explain why the Culture between the Two is so Remarkably similar ?

Asked and answered you are now repeating yourself

as you made the Attempt of having a Theory of the Basic Tools ..Common knowledge kind of instinct. but i kinda was showing you the rest of the detail that not common knowledge.. You know.. Those Smoke/Sweat Houses and Cradle Boards Teepee and such you know... the Connection, In other words Contact They Met. Crossed, Interact Etc..
with one another .

How did they meet and interact? Care to describe NC and Inuit deep ocean sailing technology?

Troll Much?

Do you always scream troll when you've lost a discussion? lol

Relics of Ancient Burial Rites Reveal Siberian Trade Route

Yep and the point is? Were these fine folks trading with the Sami or the NC? No

What I can Say is.. there is just a Possibly there was a 3rd party and that Party is the Inuit aka Eskimo Which has Spread all around the Arctic Circle as in Siberia, North America ( Both Pacific and Atlantic Sides ) and GREENLAND! that did mingle with the Cree & met up with the Sami.. (I should Know as Cree's & Inuits have Been Conflicting
though out Canada for the Past Century just as the Cree's with the Mohawks been conflicting which i have both go figure! ) So In Away My Ancient Trade Route Theory is True in away That Nomadic Traveler Trader The Inuit ( Eskimo ) ..

Great idea now you just need evidence that the Sami met up with the Inuit and NC? Tell us about the Sami sailing technology? They had one but what did they have in regards to deep arctic ocean travel capacity? It's around 8000+ kilometers from where the Sami live to Newfoundland but the its still a bit farther on to where the Inuit later moved to.

So did the Sami have the capacity? The Polynesians could do Tahiti to Hawaii which was about half that but they had a tad more experience and they did it in the Pacific and not the Arctic Sea.

You might also want to consider - what did they trade?

a reply to: douglas5

www.amazon.com...
THE CHINESE ROSWELL

There's a lot of interesting information on China - where a full half of the population believes in UFOs/ETs - that seldom seems to get to the U.S. media. Most interesting, perhaps, is that they may (like Russia) have an ability to open vortices. They had "sky spirals" the same year Russia did (supposedly "failed missile tests"). And the media has totally dropped the story of a huge metal "O" artwork being erected on the coast of a Chinese city, that some speculate may also be a stargate-like vortex opening.

www.ufoevidence.org...
UFOS IN CHINA

As far as the many pyramids in China, I read one account (which I've so far been unable to corroborate), that stated the U.S. aided the Chinese in the 1970s battling an ET invasion in central China. It was further stated that the Chinese have been reluctant ever since to excavate their pyramids, fearing doing so might "call" hostile ETs back to China. (Again, interesting anecdote I've so far been unable to verify. But even singular anecdotes DO have their place, especially regarding subjects that are "officially denied," with continually suppressed/changed information.)

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Wolfenz


WOW .. Seriously .. Depends how Confusing you make it out to be ..

Constantly bringing up side issues and not actually discussing the issue

How Can your be So sure.. about the Trade Routes ? Did some Time Traveling to make Sure did ya..?

Evidence and the lack of evidence, read the saga to see what the Norse from Iceland and Greenland were doing in NA.

Well Seeing they Have the Same Type of Culture Same way of Life among other things Before The Norse..

Then why did you bring them up?

My Side the Mohawk Side Doesn't Believe the ONLY ONE WAY BS Bering Trait Theory.

Then show evidence that they came another way

What they Do Believe is what I have have been saying a Long of a One Nomadic Culture Different Races

You Might want to explain why the Culture between the Two is so Remarkably similar ?

Asked and answered you are now repeating yourself

as you made the Attempt of having a Theory of the Basic Tools ..Common knowledge kind of instinct. but i kinda was showing you the rest of the detail that not common knowledge.. You know.. Those Smoke/Sweat Houses and Cradle Boards Teepee and such you know... the Connection, In other words Contact They Met. Crossed, Interact Etc..
with one another .

How did they meet and interact? Care to describe NC and Inuit deep ocean sailing technology?

Troll Much?

Do you always scream troll when you've lost a discussion? lol

Relics of Ancient Burial Rites Reveal Siberian Trade Route

Yep and the point is? Were these fine folks trading with the Sami or the NC? No

What I can Say is.. there is just a Possibly there was a 3rd party and that Party is the Inuit aka Eskimo Which has Spread all around the Arctic Circle as in Siberia, North America ( Both Pacific and Atlantic Sides ) and GREENLAND! that did mingle with the Cree & met up with the Sami.. (I should Know as Cree's & Inuits have Been Conflicting
though out Canada for the Past Century just as the Cree's with the Mohawks been conflicting which i have both go figure! ) So In Away My Ancient Trade Route Theory is True in away That Nomadic Traveler Trader The Inuit ( Eskimo ) ..

Great idea now you just need evidence that the Sami met up with the Inuit and NC? Tell us about the Sami sailing technology? They had one but what did they have in regards to deep arctic ocean travel capacity? It's around 8000+ kilometers from where the Sami live to Newfoundland but the its still a bit farther on to where the Inuit later moved to.

So did the Sami have the capacity? The Polynesians could do Tahiti to Hawaii which was about half that but they had a tad more experience and they did it in the Pacific and not the Arctic Sea.

You might also want to consider - what did they trade?

1) Side Issues ? Show ME ...

2) Norse?? The Only Reason I Brought Up Them is a About the Identical Long House Structures ( Inside and Out ) That the Mohawk Native Americans Have and the Norsemen ( Vikings ) Have Referring the Connection Between the Two along the St Lawrence River and the Discoveries of a Viking Settlement in Newfoundland Proves that ! So For Now On Remove the The Viking Norse Bit .. Im talking about way before the Viking ever Landed ..

3) The Other Way I just Showed you a Theoretical Evidence in a Picture of the X Halgroup X to X Look on the Previous Post Let Alone Evidence of Ancient Inuits that were on Greenland Before the Norse.Set Foot on the Land . Look that Power to ya.. So how did they get there ?

4) Repeating myself ? Your Repeating the Same Question.. Similar of the Same type of Culture from One Sourse More Likely the Inuits..

5) How Did they ( Guessing Here ) Island Skipping , Camping on Ice Sheets you know settle a couple day then rest then Continue.. Follow the Whale Follow The Seal Caribou Reindeer etc.. You Know the Nomadic Lifestyle.. You know Eskimos Inuit's have Adapted more to a harsh environment then most Humans.. in a MUCH More Warmer Climate say 6,000 to 10,000 years ago and Don't forget Hanslune Modern Humans ( Us Humans ) been on this planet 250,000 ago.. as I said How Many Ice Ages that Man Lived Through? ( Im asking YOU how MANY ) I Bet Plenty! with Warm Spells besides cold Spell The Problem with you is you are only looking for Written Documented Proof.. History is SO DAM Lost.. and Humans have Only Have 6,000 years of Written History to Go by..

6) How about you show me that Im totally Wrong as there is No Way Possible..

7) You May want to explain the Finding s of ( Native to North America ) Wolverine & Beaver Pelts Then.. of the 2,000+ year Old Burial Site's in Russia.. that was Discovered.. So Obviously you Ignored Reading or Glancing at The Website..

8) I explained that in 5)

9) did they have the Capacity Maybe, Who Knows. We are talking about a time when the Temperature was alot warmer then it is today.. When the Glaciers Receded When the Glaciers begin to Melt away. 6,000 to 10,000 years ago... where sea Levels were not as High..

What they Trade.. Pelts for one , Learn from another way of Life.. Mammoth, Caribou Reindeer meat what was around 6,000 to 10,000 years ago... Who Learned from Whom... is the Biggest Question..

I have Just Look at your Profile
and as I seen your Profile & a Few Threads you created , just like the rest of US like myself and Slayer69 Seeking the Truth of it all of Ancients,, Like

This Thread ...

Oldest Stone Blades Uncovered, 500,000 years old
www.abovetopsecret.com...

A Legit Site ..

Oldest Stone Blades Uncovered
news.sciencemag.org...

now if this was like 20 years ago in would of been in the OOPS Parts Bin..

I don't take Anything for granted.. and on the fence alot like Most Here Conjecture and Theorized of things, Unexplained but that what Keeps me interested ..

But from this Was it Neanderthals ? Homo Erectus? Modern Homo Sapiens? so How Long were we modern Humans were on this Planet ? if it is .. yet you hear .. about claimed Carbon dated Million year old Homo Sapiens Found Desserts to Mountains in South America. but you will only hear them in Conspiracy & Conjuncture Sites..


About almost Half that whats been found

400,000 year old teeth could rewrite the evolutionary history of our species
io9.com...

Middle pleistocene dental remains from Qesem Cave (Israel)
onlinelibrary.wiley.com...


Tho this Is Interesting to say the Least from a Legit Site

A Possible Mix Erectus - Sapien Hybrid ? from what it sound like

A one-million-year-old Homo cranium from the Danakil (Afar) Depression of Eritrea.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com...

One of the most contentious topics in the study of human evolution is that of the time, place and mode of origin of Homo sapiens. The discovery in the Northern Danakil (Afar) Depression, Eritrea, of a well-preserved Homo cranium with a mixture of characters typical of H. erectus and H. sapiens contributes significantly to this debate. The cranium was found in a succession of fluvio-deltaic and lacustrine deposits and is associated with a rich mammalian fauna of early to early-middle Pleistocene age

originally posted by: Wolfenz



1) Side Issues ? Show ME ...

Really? Okay you brought up Piri Reis and Admiral Bryd - which have nothing to do with the subject

2) Norse?? The Only Reason I Brought Up Them is a About the Identical Long House Structures ( Inside and Out ) That the Mohawk Native Americans Have and the Norsemen ( Vikings ) Have Referring the Connection Between the Two along the St Lawrence River and the Discoveries of a Viking Settlement in Newfoundland Proves that ! So For Now On Remove the The Viking Norse Bit .. Im talking about way before the Viking ever Landed ..

Oh goodie we can ignore them now

3) The Other Way I just Showed you a Theoretical Evidence in a Picture of the X Halgroup X to X Look on the Previous Post Let Alone Evidence of Ancient Inuits that were on Greenland Before the Norse.Set Foot on the Land . Look that Power to ya.. So how did they get there ?

The Inuit by boat from what would later be Canada where do you think they came from?

4) Repeating myself ? Your Repeating the Same Question.. Similar of the Same type of Culture from One Sourse More Likely the Inuits..

You asked for the same information more than once just a reminder

5) How Did they ( Guessing Here ) Island Skipping , Camping on Ice Sheets you know settle a couple day then rest then Continue.. Follow the Whale Follow The Seal Caribou Reindeer etc.. You Know the Nomadic Lifestyle.. You know Eskimos Inuit's have Adapted more to a harsh environment then most Humans.. in a MUCH More Warmer Climate say 6,000 to 10,000 years ago and Don't forget Hanslune Modern Humans ( Us Humans ) been on this planet 250,000 ago.. as I said How Many Ice Ages that Man Lived Through? ( Im asking YOU how MANY ) I Bet Plenty! with Warm Spells besides cold Spell The Problem with you is you are only looking for Written Documented Proof.. History is SO DAM Lost.. and Humans have Only Have 6,000 years of Written History to Go by..

Lots of words but its seem boils down to showing evidence that the Sami had contact with the NC and Inuit which I believe is your claim

6) How about you show me that Im totally Wrong as there is No Way Possible..

Reversal of the burden of proof? lol Sorry dude you need to show evidence that the Sami, NC and Inuit were in contact with one another.

7) You May want to explain the Finding s of ( Native to North America ) Wolverine & Beaver Pelts Then.. of the 2,000+ year Old Burial Site's in Russia.. that was Discovered.. So Obviously you Ignored Reading or Glancing at The Website..

That there was contact between the Inuit who were in Western Alaska and Eastern Siberia is well attested what is NOT attested is contact between the Sami and the NC & Inuit the in the EAST

What they Trade.. Pelts for one , Learn from another way of Life.. Mammoth, Caribou Reindeer meat what was around 6,000 to 10,000 years ago... Who Learned from Whom... is the Biggest Question..

Why would cultures that had pelts need different pelts and be willing to go 8,000+ kilometers to get them?


(sniped a lot of interesting but side issues)

The basic issue is - contact between the Sami and the people in the Eastern NA. May I suggest you look at when the Dorset and others actually arrived in NE NA and Greenland.

originally posted by: Wolfenz
yet you hear .. about claimed Carbon dated Million year old Homo Sapiens Found Desserts to Mountains in South America. but you will only hear them in Conspiracy & Conjuncture Sites..

Just to chime in on a small point...the reason you only hear that on 'Conspiracy and Conjecture Sites' is because radiocarbon dating is well known to be reliable only back 60,000 years. That oughta be a clue

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Wolfenz
yet you hear .. about claimed Carbon dated Million year old Homo Sapiens Found Desserts to Mountains in South America. but you will only hear them in Conspiracy & Conjuncture Sites..

Just to chime in on a small point...the reason you only hear that on 'Conspiracy and Conjecture Sites' is because radiocarbon dating is well known to be reliable only back 60,000 years. That oughta be a clue

There ya go JC being all logical, reasonable and scientific and the like!