Pope says evolution doesn't mean there's no God

a reply to: Sabiduria

Pope Francis insisted that there was no reason to believe that God and evolution were somehow incompatible.

Right, it's just an all-loving god who happened to make the main governing principle for life one in which the weak are killed by the strong.

originally posted by: zackli
a reply to: Sabiduria

Pope Francis insisted that there was no reason to believe that God and evolution were somehow incompatible.

Right, it's just an all-loving god who happened to make the main governing principle for life one in which the weak are killed by the strong.

...while at the same time saying that the meek shall inherit the earth.

originally posted by: zackli
a reply to: Sabiduria

Pope Francis insisted that there was no reason to believe that God and evolution were somehow incompatible.

Right, it's just an all-loving god who happened to make the main governing principle for life one in which the weak are killed by the strong.

I don't believe in the bible and the closest I've come to describing my beliefs is an Empirical Agnostic. With that being said, I'd have to argue with your statement and say that the main governing principle for life is: the building up of the body of Christ.

Eph. 3:4-11
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Now if you recall, God said "the Meek shall inherit the Earth". From the bible, and what I learned back when I did follow a religion is that God is loving, vengeful, jealous & forgiving. Which to me, means that God would be both good and evil so maybe God is also the devil.

I'd like to inject a little wisdom at this point? lol

"The Meek" refers to those with humble and contrite hearts. It has nothing to do with a lack of strength, or a pacifist attitude. in a word: Humility.a reply to: Sabiduria

a reply to: Ignatian

Y

es I remember that from when I used to go to church, before I realized all the flaws in the bible & religions.

There's flaws in the Bible? Please, enlighten me. If true, you will be infamous, negating 2000 years of history and tradition. Good luck. And on who's authority would you base these flaws? Your own?

I used to make up my own rules also...it's called relativism. A fundamentally flawed premise.

reply to: Sabiduria

originally posted by: Ignatian
There's flaws in the Bible? Please, enlighten me. If true, you will be infamous, negating 2000 years of history and tradition. Good luck. And on who's authority would you base these flaws? Your own?

I used to make up my own rules also...it's called relativism. A fundamentally flawed premise.

reply to: Sabiduria

OH there are plenty of flaws in the bible. I'll play. We could start with the old testament. The story of Lot? Genesis and creation vs science and evolution, Why Christians think it's okay to cherry pick the parts of the bible they chose to believe. Jesus said to follow the old laws.. those in the old testament. Following this line of thinking, ( I am simplifying a little, but ...) then it's okay to kill homosexuals? So much wrong with the bible.

a reply to: Ignatian

Yup lots.

No exudus.
No global flood.
No noahs ark.
It is a fairy tale
Plus lots more.

a reply to: Ignatian

There's flaws in the Bible? Please, enlighten me. If true, you will be infamous, negating 2000 years of history and tradition.

Yes there are tons of flaws in the bible and no I will not be infamous because many people know of these flaws as well. By "negating 2000yrs of history & tradition" do you mean, negating 2000yrs of dogmatic religious lies? Than yes that's what I mean.

And on who's authority would you base these flaws? Your own?

I base these flaws on scientific evidence on some things & translation experts who've been translating literature for 35+ years.

Some flaws:
No global flood - Problems with a Global Flood

Gathering of animals:
Some, like sloths and penguins, can't travel overland very well at all.
Some, like koalas and many insects, require a special diet. How did they bring it along?
Some cave-dwelling arthropods can't survive in less than 100% relative humidity.
Some, like dodos, must have lived on islands. If they didn't, they would have been easy prey for other animals. When mainland species like rats or pigs are introduced to islands, they drive many indigenous species to extinction. Those species would not have been able to survive such competition if they lived where mainland species could get at them before the Flood.

When it comes to translating an old language into the current language of the day, there can be problems. Sometimes they may not know what the word is so they have to make their best guess as to what the word could be.

With how many times the bible has been translated and rewritten, how can you guarantee nothing was taken out of the bible or added into the bible to suit the needs of those in power at the time?

If that's not good enough for you, how about flaws found in scripture?

-God deceives some of the prophets: 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, EZ 14:9
1 Kings 22:23 (KJV)

23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee

- The scribes (copyists, editors, teachers) falsify the word: Jeremiah 8:8 (KJV)

8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

- God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws: Ezekiel 20:25 (KJV)

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live

-A believer can handle snakes or drink poison and not experience any harm: Mark 16:17 (KJV)

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


Shall I continue?

I say this with charity. Because one does not understand scripture, or its' context, or simply disagrees with the message...does not mean it is flawed. The flaw lies with humanity, not the inspired Word of God.

The Bible is filled with allegory, analogy and metaphor. It's not always to be taken literally, contrary to many fundamentalist beliefs. If that were the case, there would be a lot of folks walking around without hands and eyes :-))

How could there be light if He had not created the sun yet?

In 7 days? God does not inhabit our concept of time. No such thing. A day to Him could last a thousand years in our time, and a thousand years could be like a day. Rather pointless to even try and wrap your brain around. That's why it's best to consult the Catholic catechism as well as the Magesterium of The Catholic Church. These things are explained very well. There's enormous content for free online.

Remember, it was The Catholic Church, inspired by The Holy Spirit, that compiled the Bible in the first place.

Jesus is the new covenant. The old Mosaic law was the old covenant. Thank God, cuz I love bacon.

The Bible in a nutshell:
1. We are all going to die some day.
2. The Kingdom of heaven is near.
3. Repent, change your ways if ya want it.

Dang! That's repulsive!! How could anyone actually believe that? (Sarcasm)

a reply to: amazing

a reply to: Sabiduria

Faith and reason are not mutually exclusive, you can't have one without the other.

"If you live your life like there is no God, you better pray you're right."

35 years study from a translator, or 2000 years of study from the greatest philosophers and theologians? Hmmm. I'll take B.

We read the same Bible today that St Jerome translated. No changes. Consult real authority, not your own.

a reply to: Ignatian

Had a feeling you would ignore the scripture.

I never said I don't have faith, I just don't believe in a fictional story book full of morals. That would be like believing I could climb into my closet & be transported to Narnia because C.S Lewis wrote a fictional story book full of morals.

"If you live your life like there is no God, you better pray you're right."

Well if one didn't believe in God, why would one pray?

Also, just because someone doesn't follow the bible or your God doesn't mean that they are living a sinful life. There are many other faiths & beliefs that have people doing good things instead of bad things. There are also those who are atheists but still do good things instead of bad things.

35 years study from a translator, or 2000 years of study from the greatest philosophers and theologians? Hmmm. I'll take B.

Not all of the greatest philosophers or theologians believe in your bible and that's quite the bold assumption on your part. (ex: Augustine & Epicurus) Just because philosophers & theologians have studied a fictional story book doesn't make it true other wise Dante's Inferno would be a true story.

We read the same Bible today that St Jerome translated. No changes. Consult real authority, not your own.

I know scripture from the King James Version of the bible, what I learned back when I was a Presbyterian, not some bible I wrote myself.

One would think if you were going to be believe any bible, it would be the ones in Greek, before St. Jerome translated it from Greek to Latin. Again, how can you be sure there was nothing added or taken out to suit the ruler at the time?

Are you talking about the vulgate based on the Septuagint, the one based on the original hebrew, or the subsequent revisions (the sistine and the clementine)? St. Jerome came under criticism by Augustine and others for using the original (hebrew) source instead of the sepatuagint

Some of the Greek manuscripts weren't even available to St. Jerome as well.

St. Jerome wasn't the best for translating the bible. A good example are the places in Luke and Matthew where the basis for the Lord's prayer comes from. In Matthew, it says in Greek "τον αρτον ημων τον επιουσιον δος ημιν σημερον" which modern Koine Greek translations would render as "Give us this day our bread sufficient". In Luke it says "τoν aρτον ημoν τoν eπιούσιον δίδου ημiν τo καθ’ Iμέραν·" which is "Give us our bread sufficient for the day". Now the word in question here is epiousios. If you were to read the Latin vulgate, you would see that Jerome rendered epiousios in Matthew as "supersubstantialum" or "divine great substance" but he rendered it as "daily" in Luke. It means neither of these things, but means "sufficient". This displays that St Jerome didnt know what epiousios meant and simply lacked a proper understanding of the context in Greek. Another good example is that in Greek exists 6 words for love, all expressing different types, and one broad term for love in Latin. These logistical and linguistic concepts didnt exist in the latin syntax, and forced the corruption of scripture when translation was attempted. It is the multifacited nature of the Greek language that posed as a barrier to the genuine idea and context of the original Greek text. It can be seen how slight mistranslations in the wrong places can lead to misconceptions and misplaced syntax in key excerpts of scripture.

So, therefore we agree. Because of mistranslation, misconception and misplaced syntax, we submit to a higher teaching authority...The Magesterium of The Roman Catholic Church., the church that Jesus founded.

It's for this very reason, we have 30,000+ Christian denominations. They all want to insist it's their version that is correct. I'll stick with The Church. The one that 1/5 of the human population on earth follow.

a reply to: Sabiduria

a reply to: Ignatian

I take issue with the implication that living like there is no god is by default a barbaric lifestyle.

originally posted by: Ignatian
a reply to: Sabiduria

Faith and reason are not mutually exclusive, you can't have one without the other.

Religious faith, belief in something despite the lack of evidence or even evidence to the contrary is the complete absence of reason....

originally posted by: Ignatian
There's flaws in the Bible? Please, enlighten me. If true, you will be infamous, negating 2000 years of history and tradition. Good luck. And on who's authority would you base these flaws? Your own?

I used to make up my own rules also...it's called relativism. A fundamentally flawed premise.

reply to: Sabiduria

Actually, the flaws in the bible are quite well documented. Heck, there are whole threads on ATS dedicated to the flaws in the bible. You wouldn't be famous for finding them, you'd just be one of the many who is able to read the book for what it is, fiction (and poor fiction at that).

originally posted by: Ignatian
So, therefore we agree. Because of mistranslation, misconception and misplaced syntax, we submit to a higher teaching authority...The Magesterium of The Roman Catholic Church., the church that Jesus founded.

It's for this very reason, we have 30,000+ Christian denominations. They all want to insist it's their version that is correct. I'll stick with The Church. The one that 1/5 of the human population on earth follow.

a reply to: Sabiduria

The Roman Catholic Church was a creation of Nero, not Jesus.

No, Nero persecuted Christians. killed them for fun. Where do you dream this stuff up? Jesus Christ started The Catholic Church. 1/5 the world's population believes this. Come on out of the minority brother.

A cool aside: Nero Caesar, the guy that the 666 in the Bible refers. No no no, 666 is not the religious conspiracy code that everyone commonly believes. Poppycock

A reply to: Krazysh0t

Yep, all the uncounted, yet multiple thousands of documented Christian martyrs. A psychological/sociological impossibility, if this whole Christianity crap is just myth and legend. A quite unreasonable proposition. Think about it. Be humble, use your noggin.

Nero has you sewn into the bloody hide of a freshly killed sheep. He's going to toss you in to the hungry lions. All you have to do is denounce this whacky Christ dude, and you'll be released. They didn't. Were they all completely delusional following a whacky myth or legend? Unreasonable, illogical.


a reply to: Ignatian

Our miracles. Want modern proof of miracles surrounding Catholicism? Again this would require humility, a rare quality around here, but, google a couple things.

"The Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano". Wild stuff

" incorruptible saints". Unexplainable by any modern science.

Yes, I know, you will say it's all a ruse, meant to fool those gullible Catholics. Well, then, they fooled 20% of the human population :-))

There's multiple YouTube vids. Doesn't require that one actually read.

a reply to: Ignatian