Breaking: High school shooter active in Washington state, Shots fired.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: rickymouse

Secret Service tried last time and couldn't find a way as there were inconsistencies from case to case. Here's that report from 2002:

www.secretservice.gov...

From the secret service thread : "he only information collected that would indicate whether attackers had
been prescribed psychiatric medications concerned medication non-
compliance (i.e., failure to take medication as prescribed). "

It seems that they should have asked if the shooters were on any medications for antidepressant or psychological problems as part of their research. That would be very important since many of the drugs they give kids have side effects that could cause a loss of inhibition.

Most anti-depressants have suicidal thoughts as a side effect, ironically. Most psychiatric medications have some sort of major bad effect on people. I've yet to see any of the anti-psychotics or bi-polar medications do more good than harm. The only benefit is to society, and not the patient, in that it keeps the person manageable, however, the side effects end up disabling them as well. So I understand why a lot people with mental illness stop taking their meds. I can't blame them. Their choices aren't great: either be tormented by voices or manic behavior and drive your relatives and friends crazy, or take pills that turn you into an obese, diabetic, drowsy, lethargic, spaced out zombie that has blackouts, seizures, blood chemistry imbalances, and spends their life in a daze. I think entirely too much effort and practice goes into medicating people, and precious little in finding treatments and therapies that have long term curative promise.

a reply to: TheGoondockSaint

I just read my post. I meant to say the problem is NOT with violent movies, video games, guns etc. Couldn't edit the post.

I agree the problem is a broken mental health care system.

a reply to: starviego

Active shooter drills are held on a regular basis throughout the country.

We are getting ready to do active shooter training in my city next month.

a reply to: sabiondo

I can't help wondering if these "suspicious" active shooter drills might be somehow linked to the fact that people keep shooting each other.

Crazy idea, I know.

An INSECURED firearm and a kid with a malfunction...again.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

I've known a fair number of people on anti-depressants and those that have bipolar and from what I've seen tend to disagree.

I know a number of down to earth people that have found the right combination of drugs or drug dosage to give them back their lives. None are obese, diabetic, lethargic or spaced out zombies. The certainly aren't spending their lives in a daze. Something that people seem to not realize is that bi-polar disorder and depression run the gamut in their severity and symptoms. Many people find relief from awful bouts of depression with medication.

Now I'm certainly not going to say that these drugs don't come with risks. There have been many tragedies surrounding their use. I also agree that there is a tendency in the medical world to medicate first and try nothing else and that we should be seeking alternative therapies for people suffering from these debilitating mental conditions.

originally posted by: Shepard64
Man all these shootings is making my brain hurt so much. Just makes me simply think to myself "why?"

Allow idiots access to effortless means to kill someone at a distance and its bound to happen.

originally posted by: starviego
Here's a shocker. Apparently there was a active shooter drill to be carried out at that school either yesterday or today:

www.activistpost.com...
--CNN host Brooke Baldwin, covering breaking news of the school shooting in Marysville, Washington, announces that she has a live update regarding the school shooting. Baldwin said she's been just handed a paper with new information, which she will read on the air. She asks for viewers to, quoting, "bear with her," as she reads it "cold." She reads: "Marysville Police will be holding SWAT training today --" Baldwin then interrupts herself, and states, "Oh. This is from yesterday." Later, the host announces, "initially, students thought this was a fire drill."

And there was apparently another drill at another school just yesterday:

a.disquscdn.com...
Active school shooter training at Ferndale High School on 10/23
Ferndale is just north of Seattle and Marysville...

Apparently this student was on out of school suspension for the football practice fight the week or two prior. Sadly one of the kids he shot was his cousin. His grandfather said his cousins were his targets. So much more heartbreaking! Why??? Really makes you wonder what was going on at home that he felt it necessary to kill his cousins over it??? This one is definitely going to have a lot more questions and not enough answers.

Way to many more questions then answers at this time. I haven’t seen enough evidence to say it was a false flag. But I will always keep my options open. Keep my ear to the ground and wait for more news.

Cant help but think on Megadeths 99 ways to die. "Down another glass of courage, and a shot of thorazine."

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Anyafaj

Did you tell your parents you were being bullied? I would ask my daughter all the time if she was being bullied. She always denied that she was, but she kept asking to move to another school. I'm home schooling her now, and she seems to be pretty happy. At least with home schooling, I don't have to worry about her getting shot at some high school! There's always college though...

Oh sure. I got the party line. "Ignore them. Their jealous of you. (OF WHAT????) The usual BS that parents spew and spiraled the depression further. I truly felt I had no where to go for help. I couldn't go to the school, nor to my parents, and when I finally snapped, I was the one who got in trouble with both of them. Go figure. My daughter being autistic experienced similar issues, only I didn't play the party line, I was the rager at the school and a MAJOR PIA! They did not like me in the slightest! You should have seen me when a kid threatened to cut my daughter's head off on the bus but the school REFUSED to remove this child from the bus! Once I mentioned lawsuit, was when crap finally hit their fan. I finally got her into an autism school and never had an issue again. Trust me when I say that pissed them off too.

I would have loved to home school my daughter but with her autism, she was way to violent to try it. I was always the brunt of her violence. No matter what therapy, drug, you name it we tried, I've been thrown down the stairs, been thrown across the room, had her sit on my back while she tried ripping my head off my neck, you name it. (She's a foot and a half taller and was 70 pounds heavier at the time.) Eventually she was in jail for 2 weeks at 15, psych ward for hitting a nurse in the ER when she woke from a nightmare. When she got up, she wanted to go to her father's in PA, so I drove her up here, she attacked a 4th grade boy for sitting in her imaginary friend's chair and clawed his face so badly it scarred. This required ANOTHER psych stay with soldiers returning from Iraq. (Yes, I know, ridiculous, in PA 14 is an ADULT), she was there 3 times before being placed in a psych ward with girls who like to set fires. She is now in a group home where she's doing wonderfully. Most issues are an argument now and then with one of the 3 other girls. Put 4 teen girls together, it's bound to happen. But she's a happy child 80% of the time, so I'm glad about that. She experiences bullying now and then at her school, but we deal with it immediately. She operates on a 50 IQ, moderate mental intelligence deficit. (I hate the word retarded) She's 19 but operates on a 8-12 yr old level.

Thank you for being involved in your daughter's life. We need more parents like you!

originally posted by: starviego
If the only suspect is dead, why is someone else being led away in handcuffs:

twitter.com...
Morgan Palmer ‏@MorganKIRO7 2h2 hours ago
One person in handcuffs being led away from #Marysville Pilchuck HS.

Warrant maybe for unrelated issue?

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: rickymouse

Secret Service tried last time and couldn't find a way as there were inconsistencies from case to case. Here's that report from 2002:

www.secretservice.gov...

From the secret service thread : "he only information collected that would indicate whether attackers had
been prescribed psychiatric medications concerned medication non-
compliance (i.e., failure to take medication as prescribed). "

It seems that they should have asked if the shooters were on any medications for antidepressant or psychological problems as part of their research. That would be very important since many of the drugs they give kids have side effects that could cause a loss of inhibition.

Actually, some of the kids that are frequently noted as having been prescribed medications had actually failed to take them. For example, I believe it was Kip Kinkel who had been prescribed a drug for violent outbursts and depression but had ceased the drug as he had taken to lying to his psychiatrist about how he was doing. The kid did not like taking the meds and felt that being on them somehow created a career destroying onus on his life. Pretty sure it was Kip and it is documented in his court records. **

I totally agree with the sentiments against many of the drugs that have been and are used in the past. I personally think that doctors are too quick to prescribe and that these drugs are only useful in a case of actual chemical imbalance. Taking a pill to deal with the stresses in life does not teach the individual better coping mechanisms or anything like that. For many, being on them makes them feel worse or turns them into a zombie. So please don't read my disagreement above about these young men all being on prescriptive drugs as being pro-pill. I'm not. However, the case was as the Secret Service described--many of them had duped their shrinks (many were also very smart boys) or were failing to take them. Psychiatric meds are exactly what they were referencing. I think failing to take them regularly as prescribed could compound any existing problems or make new ones.

**I dug it up because I'm still on my first cup of coffee and don't trust myself. Kip started seeing a psychiatrist before his incident due to violent outbursts and his mother was afraid in January of 1997. Kip had a history of violence before being placed on any prescriptive drug:

Mrs. Kinkel reported Kip has a fascination with explosives, guns and knives. This interest is shared by several of his friends and his mother is concerned such fascination is unhealthy and may lead to behaviors that could harm Kip or others. Kip often lies to his parents about his interest in explosives and his parents will no longer leave him alone at home. In addition, she describes her son as having a hot temper and sometimes kicking holes in walls at home.

www.pbs.org...

It wasn't until June 1997 that his psychiatrist and doctor placed him on Prozac at 20 mg a day and Kip seemed to improve. The problem with Kip is that he was potentially lying to his psychiatrist as he mentioned the hearing of voices in his journal. Two psychiatrists after the fact found evidence for schizophrenia or schizophrenia type problems. Here's the testimonies from the various psychiatrists that evaluated Kip. If Kip was indeed schizophrenic, prozac wouldn't have done a thing to help him.

www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: whatnext21
I hope this is not the girlfriend

Police says female who died in Marysville, Wash., high school shooting was a student; no information on motive - live video

Link

I was thinking the very same. Or one of his cousins, because then the family lost two family members that day.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

I've known a fair number of people on anti-depressants and those that have bipolar and from what I've seen tend to disagree.

I know a number of down to earth people that have found the right combination of drugs or drug dosage to give them back their lives. None are obese, diabetic, lethargic or spaced out zombies. The certainly aren't spending their lives in a daze. Something that people seem to not realize is that bi-polar disorder and depression run the gamut in their severity and symptoms. Many people find relief from awful bouts of depression with medication.

Now I'm certainly not going to say that these drugs don't come with risks. There have been many tragedies surrounding their use. I also agree that there is a tendency in the medical world to medicate first and try nothing else and that we should be seeking alternative therapies for people suffering from these debilitating mental conditions.

As someone with very severe depression from PTSD, along with anxiety and mild OCD, some medications have been a Godsend, such as Cymbalta, and sometimes Xanax, some help me to sleep. (I have a pineal cyst in my brain that only allows me to get one hour a night. If I take nothing for sleep I am awake for 4-6 nights in a row. So now I take Trazadone for sleep. It does help with depressing thoughts because I've noticed when the pharmacy runs out once in a blue moon around refill time, I can get very depressed.

I've thought about this thread several times today, and a few things have irked me about some of the things expressed. Of course, most people have been entirely sensible, but there's been a few general ideas in here that I feel moved to counter. I apologise if it offends anyone. European perspective.

1. Obama arrranged this.

Obama didn't do this. One idiot in one school near Seattle did this. Incidents like this happen fairly often in America, so it's hardly surprising something Obama has apparently done ties up with a shooting chronologically. He does something wrong most days according to ATS, so basically any event could be tied to him trying to obscure it. You live in a big country, things happen.

2. They're trying to grab your guns

I've been hearing this since I started reading this board years ago. Yet, your guns are not being grabbed. Jesus Christ. From an outside perspective, it's dark as hell that any gun related event is instantly framed as an attempt to take your guns - there's rarely any real concern for the victims of gun crime or consideration of why it's happened, just the concern that someone will take your gun. Consider that. "Call it false flag, and we won't have to discuss why a minor has use of a gun."

3. Medication

Well, you can just write it off as a medication problem. Big Pharma is evil. The self-same drugs are available in all Western nations. They're indicated and prescribed for the same conditions. Aside the odd event (including gun libral nations), the result is different.

This kind of thing rarely happens on this side of the pond. Why do you think that is?

Something to ponder... Could it be that a kid has shot up some other kids because he's messed up, has no access to treatment and has access to guns?

Edit:

Also, the authorities doing an 'Active Shooter' drill... is this not because all the factors above make such a situation a very real possibility? It's not like it's a rare occurance.

originally posted by: KingIcarus
This kind of thing rarely happens on this side of the pond. Why do you think that is?

Something to ponder... Could it be that a kid has shot up some other kids because he's messed up, has no access to treatment and has access to guns?

I think actually doing a cultural contrast would be somewhat enlightening as to why we do have more on this side of the pond. Being an American myself, I'd say the first thing that pops into my mind and that relates to the "no access to treatment" is the American attitude. The United States was formed up by colonists where, whether they survived or not in this "New World" was solely dependent on them. In a variety of classes that I've taken in college, this was referred to as the "pull yourself up by your own boostraps" mentality. In business ethics, this was the first wall that needed to be torn down for the students. It's that prevalent of an attitude here in the US.

By the colonial period, Weber teaches, the doctrine of predestination had "died away", but the cultural ethos that equated hard work and frugality (asceticism) in the pursuit of earthly accomplishment with the highest moral behavior had been institutionalized. The "self-made man" or, as Weber says, "the man of vocation" had by the late eighteenth century become an American ideal.

Source: The Promise of Poststructuralist Society..., Clayton Dumont

For the average American, this means that you are the master of your own fate and that basically means that you are solely responsible for your own fortunes and misfortunes. In other words, even if you faced every disadvantage as a child from rotten parents to poverty, these things are not to factor in on your present day success or lack thereof. It's all up to YOU. While this ideal may actually serve a positive purpose in stimulating self reliance, it can actually deter many from seeking help when help is needed. After all, we're supposed to be self reliant, are we not?

Many of these shooters do have something in common--above average to superior intelligence. Kip Kinkel was in TAG (gifted children program) as was Luke Woodham. Dylan Klebold was in a program called CHIPS for gifted children. Eric Harris was an extremely intelligent psychopath. Barry Loukaitis was of superior intelligence as was James Holmes. These aren't stupid kids. These are the kinds of kids that are smart and tend to be driven to excel. The ones that were earmarked as being gifted also had additional expectations of success compounded upon them.

In cases of the psychopaths, like Harris, Loukaitis or even Elliot Rodger, any of their own personal or social failures could not fall to blame at their own feet. It was the rest of the world that was failing them or was just simply unworthy as they were gods (in their own minds). it's a perversion of the bootstrap lore where they were all self made men to such an extent that they surpassed the rest of us. In the more humble shooters, seeking out treatment or even admitting to more profound mental illness basically equated to destroying their futures (and those high expectations placed on them to boot). In other words, becoming a profound disappointment that instead of succeeding, would be an ultimate and tragic failure. The solution that several may have done? Try to outsmart your own mental illness. Self reliance--you are responsible for your own fate.

I'd say this is the difference between across the pond and here. A toxic combination of the "self-made man" and the pervasive stigma of mental illness and there are earmarks of this in just about every shooting in the US. Jacob Roberts had big dreams, was going to succeed and when it went kaboom, he went kaboom.

**My fiance, who studied Criminal Justice, also pointed out this. This could also explain why most of the individuals doing these actions tend to be men. Women are allowed to have moments of weaknesses or even ask for help. The expectation of self reliance is at least tenfold heavier on men than it is on women in this country.

Just another Friday in America.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

I disagree.
The actions are TOO extreme and there is a pattern here.
My favorite culprit are SSRIs being diagnosed by physicians who aren't able to appropriately verify the subjects neurochemistry THAT particular guess is ONLY up to a PSYCHATRIST.
That could cause these incidents.
Do MDs get permission to prescribe Psychotropics in England?
They can ALL do it here.

Also WHY so many LATELY,if it IS such a thing, SOLDIERS would have control because WE are the only demographic where such skills are now ingrained personalty traits ,WE tend to destroy ourselves rather than harm innocence.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: WhiteAlice

I disagree.
The actions are TOO extreme and there is a pattern here.
My favorite culprit are SSRIs being diagnosed by physicians who aren't able to appropriately verify the subjects neurochemistry THAT particular guess is ONLY up to a PSYCHATRIST.
That could cause these incidents.
Do MDs get permission to prescribe Psychotropics in England?
They can ALL do it here.

Of course the responses are too extreme in your regard as you are stripping away the most significant factor with all of them--All of these young men were mentally ill. Have you ever taken the time to read their journals? They possessed some of the darkest and most troubled of minds and it's extraordinarily evident in those journals.

Blaming it on SSRI's does not explain those shooters that were not on any medications at all or were not on SSRIs. Anthony Barbaro was inducted into the National Honor Society and was a Regents scholar when he shot 11 and killed 3. Barbaro was not on any psychiatric drugs nor was he known for any history of violence. He had a clean school record with no disciplinary problems. His father was the executive of a manufacturing firm.
en.wikipedia.org...
news.google.com...,12607&dq=olean

Nor does blaming it on SSRIs explain Charles Whitman. Charles Whitman was raised in a perfectionist family, had an IQ of 139, and performed well in school as a child (ill performance was met with physical abuse by his father). His father described himself as a "self-made man". Whitman did seek out assistance for his violent outbursts and was prescribed valium. Valium is not a SSRI and whether Whitman took the drug or note is unknown. What is known is that, after meeting with a campus psychiatrist once, Whitman never went back.
en.wikipedia.org...

I know that trying to comprehend that there are those in this world who can grow so filled with anger and hatred that they lash out in such a fashion exist. Especially when it comes to young men that seemed to have a whole lot going for them. Especially in that case, it becomes an additional layer of tragedy. The fact is that, if you read those journals of theirs, the hatred for us all began long before the drugs did.