To all aid relief workers, missionaries and doctors without borders: Stop killing us.

a reply to: tadaman

I find it ironic that you can get on a no-fly list if you post something snarky about Obama

yet

Get a seat upgrade if you're coming back from West Africa.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I can agree to that.

I really can. But they arent doing that because the sort of people going and coming arent responsible people. Its thrill seekers and face people. Even the people who are there still, who have accepted that they will probably die from this must be wondering why they even came in the first place. A week here, a couple days there....WTF?!

We arent going to stop this. Our advice isnt being taken to the degree necessary and the people there are in a bad place which just made their situation that much worse.

IF we can help them sure. We dont have a cure. That is still true and very much important to consider when saying we are "helping".

I would be happy if they at least just bought a Bio suit online and used that at the very least if they dont plan on seeing this through. The people going arent even taking the precautions necessary to stop the spread. If they came home infected,.....how many other Africans did they infect before leaving?

We have to consider that they may be making things worse as well.

a reply to: beezzer

Yeah I somehow feel that the little old lady that had a few too many nips of whisky and posted something dumb on Facebook is less of a threat to the US than people returning from a hot zone that are just told to self monitor for a fever.

I just thought I would post some links.

I am done with this.

The links are not reactionary BS. This is just what it is. At least educae yourself before you say all is fine. See what the experts in the field say first.

www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-ominous-math-of-the-ebola-epidemic/2014/10/09/3cad9e76-4fb2-11e4-8c24-487e92bc997b_story.html

www.nytimes.com...

I thought this was very tellig of how we are helping....to make things worse...

These health teams work under constant stress and uncertainty. During this outbreak, they've faced violence, angry crowds, and blockaded roads. They can't wear protective gear because they'll frighten locals.

www.vox.com...

This is compounded by denial about the disease. Though denial is less prevalent now, more than six months into the epidemic, for a period at the beginning — when Ebola emerged for the first time ever in West Africa — people just didn't believe it was real.

"People thought the government was making it up, that it's an excuse for the government to get money for all these different agencies," says Moses, "or it's a political plot to try to murder people in the east because people in the east belong to the opposition party."

Camels to water.....here and there.

You think this is bad, just wait till those 3000 troops come home!

a reply to: tadaman

I liked your NY Times link showing that of the Ebola patients treated in the US, 5 have recovered, 3 are in treatment, and only 1 has died.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

Did you like the one about under reporting? Those that were treated early...sure. THAT WE HEAR ABOUT.

Dude, keep denying. I dont care. You arent going to convince me that there is nothing to worry about. You dont even know the first thing about epidemics. Thats the WORST thing you can do.

But what ever. You would be the first to say that we are being lied to about other issues but with this you are all "the official numbers"....

please. Carry on dude. I dont care. I know and have talked to people who do this for a living. We are not at the "no worries" phase.

But what ever. You will eat your words. Though I would rather be proven wrong. Nows not that time though and not for at least a few more months. Encourage people to be irresponsible. Go ahead. Its your conscience later.

a reply to: tadaman

I understand man. But unfortunately we have to choose carefully, how we handle this. If we close the borders and stop flights,well we are being selfish and possibly racist. Then if we decide to have quarantine areas and people in camo and gas masks leading you to these areas, it'll wind up on "posse comitatus" and we'll hear about how our rights are being infringed on.

/s

a reply to: IntroduceALittleIrony

Maybe,

But you dont get emotional and idealistic with epidemics. Thats how things get worse. Cold rational minds save lives.

Some people would not be able to think logically. They would make terrible leaders and get millions killed in a worst case scenario. They are cool for peace time and non threatening circumstances. Throw a real problem their way and they play politics. Instead of crisis management there is information management.

Its not lovely but you cant be irresponsible. We can send advisers. We can send doctors, and nurses..sure.

Just follow PROCEDURE and do what the epidemiologists say. What the hell is the point in sending advisers if we dont even listen to our own people who spend their lives studying this? I only wonder how the authorities over there are listening and following procedure.

From what I have learned, its all bureaucracy and BS. No real effort to stop the spread. Just face...all face. There are mass graves that no one is even addressing. NOTHING we are doing is "helping. This is feed the children type BS.

This is going to get worse...much worse. And every person who gets infected and comes home will have gone in vain.

Also, everyone advocating "relax its all BS" have NO IDEA what they are talking about. You dont talk that way when an epidemic is still reproducing at 1.5 to 2.0 new cases per infection rate. THAT IS INSANE. This is still in a growth and exponential spread stage. When it starts to drop off you say "relax". Now is when you say " Be F-ing careful"....

But lets encourage wishful thinking. Lord knows that is productive at stopping disease....because reasons.

a reply to: tadaman

Well see, a cold rational mind would do something horrible for the greater good, but then that person would be a super villain in the minds of the public, and not many people would jump at the chance for that legacy.

a reply to: tadaman

I am glad you know all about who I am and what I think. And of course, you know more than I do, and we couldn't just possibly have a different perspective on the situation. Your posts in this thread (and yes it is a rant, I give you that) sound to me like you are too ramped up about this whole thing.

I am not here to convince the ranter of anything, but rather, to provide a different perspective for other readers.

Keep saying you know, and you know people who know, and this and that about whatever numbers might be true or not. Post some proof, if you have it (as you alluded to.)

You keep telling me I will eat my words. Curb the hate for a little bit maybe. You don't know me, my complete background, nor do you have any reason to assert the things you have about me (as much as you would like to convince yourself you do.)

a reply to: IntroduceALittleIrony

at least he would have saved lives. More dead people is generally worse than hurt feelings or "disgust".

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

Well sir like I said. I dont care what you say. Do what you think is best.

My sister who studied at one of the best ivy league schools for medicine in the country in the field of epidemiology is a better frame of reference and source for perspective than some guy on the internet arguing his feelings, who cant be bothered to read what official experts say.

You can justify it. But thats on you. I DO know better.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

Well sir like I said. I dont care. My sister who studied at one of the best ivy league schools for medicine in the country in the field of epidemiology is a better source than some guy who cant be bothered to read what official experts say.

You can justify it. But thats on you. I DO know better.

Your sister yada-yada = hearsay.
I read your links, you didn't like the one bit I picked out from them (again, not that I necessarily agree, just using your own links.)
You do know better? Prove it.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

DO what you think is best.

I will make a point to respond to this thread every week from now on OK? if in a couple months its how YOU say, I will eat my words...deal?


Until then, leave me alone. I dont care what you have to say, flat out.

a reply to: AnteBellum

Agreed. Some sort of mandatory observation/quarantine should be required before re-entry into one's country of residence.
I definitely don't think people should stop going all together, I just think we should do more to mitigate the risks involved upon the relief worker's return.

a reply to: tadaman

Agreed, any aid worker that wants to go help and cure Ebola should travel to where it is, isolate and eliminate it completely and upon clear verification it is eradicated 100%, put them in quarantine isolation for a minimum period - in that country.

Once you have been in quarantine for however long is takes for Ebola to take hold and you still check out 100%, then consider coming home.

I respect and admire your free will to assist, just as others exercise their free will to eliminate risk of contamination.

Here is the thing I am so EFFING Done with!! Why in God's name has Obozo the tool not imposed travel bans on all countries in Africa where the epidemic of Ebola is running wild??? This makes absolutely no sense!!!!

And what is the point of mandating that one of our BEST air assault brigades the 101st goes to this horrific hell hole to build some damn hospitals!!! These guys are needed to back up and relieve our Special Forces in the ME fighting ISIL!!

Then to send them over there without PPE is attempted murder!! Who is this ass hat in the Govt. saying they only need a mask and gloves!! Just today I read where an entire area in Sierra Leone (i think it was) where people are quarantined are threatening to break out and do whatever it takes because they are starving!!!! Yes! Obozo that is probably going to expose a lot of people who were told you do not need level 4 Bio Suit!!

The idea of our government taking people in 5 major airports in the U.S. who travel from West Africa and handing them an "Ebola" kit, is a sick joke!! The kit contains a thermometer and a notebook and instructions on what to do if they get these symptoms X,Y, AND Z!!

Now lets think about this: Many nationals in the West African countries being monitored could believe that
A. Ebola is not real it is a demonic possession
B. I do not have to worry I am safe because the witch doctor handed me this charm that i am to wear around my neck so I have magical protection...
C. These Americans are trying to kill us with this disease so no matter what do not mention to the American Doctors if you have a fever or begin bleeding!! And do not listen to them do the opposite of what they say or you will get the evil virus...
D. No, I will not monitor anything while i am here because I am in in America and they have the best doctors in the world so if I get sick they can fix me!!

and Boom Boom Boom BAM! We have a full blown pandemic here!!

I say run military missions from all over the globe to drop supplies, water, building materials whatever they need and help them manage that way.......but stop sacrificing our men and women if you are not willing to shut the GD border at least temporarily!!!

pax

Here is some food for thought....Thousands of people have been documented as having Ebola....EVERY agency worth a damn says that those numbers are WAY under the actual number of infections. Not info wars, but major health organizations...

Then you have thousands of flights coming into Europe and the US everyday....hundreds from Africa and especially highly infected areas...

How many documented cases in the US and Europe? Under a dozen and all are "recovered"....this from a current outbreak where 70% of people die...Yet the few cases we have are miraculously cured....?!

Then you have every major city telling its 911 dispatchers that they are forbidden from using the word Ebola. The current code word for Ebola is F/T...meaning Fever, travel. Hospitals threatening with termination if anyone talks to the media or breaks silence when told to be quiet about patients with symptoms or unpreparedness.

So obviously there isnt a concern for outbreak, but information containment. There are already unconfirmed reports from highly respected doctors in many major cities of patients being disappeared.

Every person who knows what the hell they are talking about and makes their living in this field say that the current rate of infection has not yet reached its tipping point where numbers start receding. Its still going to get worse.
They cant even get accurate numbers of who is actually infected because most people arent being honest and coming forward. That and people are trying to use wishful thinking to make it all go away there and even here.

So it begs the question, is it really time to start letting our guard down? Is it time to say that this is all a lie?

The official numbers for US infections are absurd considering the number of people currently known to be infected, the numbers of flights leaving Africa, and the HIGHLY infectious nature of the virus itself. Its still unknown how long it can last in minute droplets that are small enough to travel in the air....even by people who study Ebola exclusively. The fact that 70% of infected people in the US are reported to not have died should be telling on its own. BUT the probability that only under a dozen have been infected at all is just too ridiculous to take seriously.

Everyone can do as they please. I would recommend not taking this so lightly. There is a middle ground but I would rather er on the side of caution. Thinking the government lies on every issue and then is being completely honest with this is retarded.

Just be careful people. Its not time yet to be dismissive about this. Not by a long shot.

a reply to: tadaman

I know you asked me to leave you alone, but that's not how forums work. (Please do keep us posted every week in this thread.)

Do you have anything to back up this latest post? Something one might investigate on their own to verify or discredit what you are saying? (Besides the links you have already provided, which we've presumably both read.) Convenient that you posted this as a rant? I am open to information, I have read what you have thus far provided.

Your claims are hyperbole, unless you have a source to back them up. One claim I would like to see you back up: "Every person who knows what the hell they are talking about and makes their living in this field say that the current rate of infection has not yet reached its tipping point where numbers start receding."