No, marijuana use doesn’t lower your IQ

a reply to: crazyewok

If you go to shady folk, that's understandable, but you can grow it easily enough. In fact, in the UK, you can legally purchase the seeds - it's just "cultivating" them that is illegal.

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
Why not legalize heroine while were at it. Drugs are drugs...

What a moronic statement - caffeine is a "drug", alcohol is a "drug", nicotine is a "drug", aspirin is a "drug".

EDIT: In fact, the UK Parliament recently produced a list of "drugs" (legal and not) according to their physical and societal harm. Alcohol was second, behind heroin and tobacco wasn't far behind. Cannabis came in at 14th, just behind some legal steroids.

And, as stated, Heroin can kill you easily if you take too much or have a bad batch. It is impossible to OD on Cannabis and the only "harm" is from smoking it. It is a total misnomer that they claim it causes metal issues - in the UK the latest figures show the total amount of people with "cannabis related mental issues" is in the hundreds.

How many users of Alcohol have dependency issues, associated physical and mental problems? 1.6 million at the last count. In fact, Alcoholics outnumber ALL drug addicts by 4 to 1

How many die each year from Tobacco? 114,000 out of 10 million users... But perfectly legal.

How many people die each year from Alcohol abuse?40,000 out of an estimated 40 million users.... But perfectly legal.

How many die each year from Cannabis use? 1 person out of 3 million regular users and that is probably from doing something stupid rather than from the Cannabis itself

a reply to: RedParrotHead

Well, darn.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: crazyewok

Quite - it's proven drinking actually kills brain cells, hence the hangovers!

The hangover is actually caused by dehydration, which in turn causes the brain to shrink.... not to kill brain cells.

Most of the damage Alcohol does is to the liver causing scar tissue to form.. cirrhosis of the liver.

Though over long periods of time large amount of Alcohol can indeed induce brain damage.... But that is true of cannabis too!

Korg.

originally posted by: Mr Headshot
I've never thought it lowered IQ, just memory function.

IQ is very much a function of memory, amongst other things. Also rapidity of thought and calculation is decreased by THC, the question is just--for how long after it wears off? No good answers. But what is definitely decreased is the desire to get up and do something---drive--whether that is go to work, or study harder, run farther/

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Maybe I should elaborate - excessive alcohol consumption can lead to chronic neurological damage. While not actually killing the brain cells, it certainly does a good number on them.

As for cannabis doing the same - where is the evidence? I allude to my post earlier in the thread for starters, not to mention the fact there are serious studies in using cannabis to counteract neurological diseases like dementia.

The difference is that Alcohol metabolises into quite toxic chemicals in the human body, which is what causes the damage to the brain. Cannabis, on the other hand, does not. In fact, the body has receptors designed specifically to receive cannabinoids metabolites and even produces cannabinoids of it's own.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
No, marijuana use doesn’t lower your IQ

Several studies have come out that are debunking this claim that heavy marijuana use makes you dumber, which originates from a 2012 study.

A 2012 Duke University study made international headlines when it purported to find a link between heavy marijuana use and IQ decline among teenagers. Other researchers questioned the findings almost immediately: Columbia University's Carl Hart noted the very small sample of heavy users (38) in the study, leading him to question how generalizable the results were.

Then, a follow-up study published 6 months later in the same journal found that the Duke paper failed to account for a number of confounding factors: "Although it would be too strong to say that the results have been discredited, the methodology is flawed and the causal inference drawn from the results premature," it concluded.

Now, a new study out from the University College of London provides even stronger evidence that the Duke findings were flawed. The study draws on a considerably larger sample of adolescents than the Duke research - 2,612 children born in the Bristol area of the U.K. in 1991 and 1992. Researchers examined children's IQ scores at age 8 and again at age 15, and found "no relationship between cannabis use and lower IQ at age 15," when confounding factors - alcohol use, cigarette use, maternal education, and others - were taken into account. Even heavy marijuana use wasn't associated with IQ.

It is important to note that the researchers are testing this on children. I've been saying for a while now that the marijuana isn't a CAUSE of lower IQ or mental problems, but a symptom of it. Some people are more predisposed to seek out drug usage. That's just the way things are. But to make the jump that the drug is causing the behavior is ridiculous and requires MUCH more study to confirm.

While I still agree with the 21 year old minimum to partake (just in case), it is quite clear that we don't need to treat it like alcohol or tobacco when legalized. It's time to give marijuana its fair due. Legalize it!

I do not want to cause hard feelings, but here goes . . .OK, let me get this straight. Marijuana users are not made less intelligent with its use. So marijuana users are already starting out with a lower than average IQ. Testing on children proves the point.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Maybe I should elaborate - excessive alcohol consumption can lead to chronic neurological damage. While not actually killing the brain cells, it certainly does a good number on them.

As for cannabis doing the same - where is the evidence? I allude to my post earlier in the thread for starters, not to mention the fact there are serious studies in using cannabis to counteract neurological diseases like dementia.

The difference is that Alcohol metabolises into quite toxic chemicals in the human body, which is what causes the damage to the brain. Cannabis, on the other hand, does not. In fact, the body has receptors designed specifically to receive cannabinoids metabolites and even produces cannabinoids of it's own.

No you should not elaborate and I'm not sure I like your superior tone. Perhaps if you really did have an IQ as high as you profess you would have realized that there are people here that really do have an IQ as high as you profess!

Yes Cannabis has been found to cause brain damage, there has been many studies on the subject below is an example of the findings of just one of them.

Marijuana Use Does Cause Brain Damage Says Study

The amygdala and the nucleus accumbens were the parts of the brain where the abnormalities were most prevalent. These two regions of the brain are responsible for processing emotions, making decisions, and motivation. Damage to these parts of the brain often yield some types of mental illness such as anxiety disorders, paranoia, bi-polar and depression, and Breiter argues that this is the part of the brain that, “you do not want to mess with.”

Of course you are likely to say it's all a big conspiracy and they just don't want you to do it...

and before you make any assumptions about me, I suggest you research and readjust your view...

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

You may want to research you expert a bit more seems people think he's a fraud on the subject.

But other experts agree with Pachter's assessment. Dr. Asaf Keller, a professor of anatomy and neurobiology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who has done research related to the effects of marijuana use on the teen brain, told HuffPost that the study "suffers from several shortcomings in design, statistical analysis and -- most importantly -- in interpretation."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

a reply to: liteonit6969

Not true. It's the only thing that helps me to keep my rage in check (in regard to pretty much every thing, haha- government/religion/rivers of stupidity flowing like the drugs and chemicals in our food and water).


...uhm, you know, every thing. Stuff.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Korg Trinity

You may want to research you expert a bit more seems people think he's a fraud on the subject.

But other experts agree with Pachter's assessment. Dr. Asaf Keller, a professor of anatomy and neurobiology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who has done research related to the effects of marijuana use on the teen brain, told HuffPost that the study "suffers from several shortcomings in design, statistical analysis and -- most importantly -- in interpretation."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

I knew someone would refute a single study...

Try these...

Cannabis and cognition: short- and long-term effects

Adverse effects of cannabis

Considering Cannabis: The Effects of Regular Cannabis Use on Neurocognition in Adolescents and Young Adults

Altered brain tissue composition in heavy marijuana users

Yet again.. I have to do the work for the ATS readers.... Please Please Please remember Google exists!!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

I don't know who this Breiter is but his research has many issues, and it didn't help that none of the data was released by the researchers.

There's a good blog which highlights the problems of the paper, some of which seem like they have outright lies. Non-significant results were labelled as 'trends towards significance', and that's even with outliers left in.

Blog

This is all very bad, but things get uglier the more one looks at the paper. In the tables reporting the p-values, the authors do something I have never seen before in a published paper. They report the uncorrected p-values, indicating those that are significant (prior to correction) in boldface, and then put an asterisk next to those that are significant after their (incomplete) correction. I realize my own use of boldface is controversial… but what they are doing is truly insane. The fact that they put an asterisk next to the values significant after correction indicates they are aware that multiple testing is required. So why bother boldfacing p-values that they know are not significant? The overall effect is an impression that more tests are significant than is actually the case. See for yourself in their Table 4:

Basically, if I reported a linear regression like that I would have failed.

After all that, it seems pointless to question the main idea of the study, which doesn't take into account brain plasticity. The neural pathways of the brain are always altering depending on what stimuli the brain encounters. Music will alter brain pathways, interacting with people also. This alteration of brain pathways only seems to be labelled 'abnormal' when cannabis is involved.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

It's tricky to understand because I can't fathom why someone would take an IQ test while intoxicated. People don't regularly inhibit their mental abilities then go take a mental test. That's like going out and injuring your shoulder before a baseball game. It's dumb. You are trying to jump through hoops here to get your point across and you are failing.

a reply to: searching411

Did you just call marijuana users dumb? Because that is a generalization and generalizations are NEVER true of a population.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Korg Trinity

It's tricky to understand because I can't fathom why someone would take an IQ test while intoxicated. People don't regularly inhibit their mental abilities then go take a mental test. That's like going out and injuring your shoulder before a baseball game. It's dumb. You are trying to jump through hoops here to get your point across and you are failing.

So you concur that consuming cannabis inhibits your mental abilities then?

Finally!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

I've already agreed with you several times that marijuana inhibits your short term memory TEMPORARILY. I keep telling you that the effect isn't permanent and therefore doesn't effect IQ. But apparently you can't tell the difference.

I think I get it. You are so brainwashed by the Reefer Madness propaganda that you can't accept that maybe it was wrong. But it's all a confirmation bias based on made up propaganda.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Korg Trinity

I've already agreed with you several times that marijuana inhibits your short term memory TEMPORARILY. I keep telling you that the effect isn't permanent and therefore doesn't effect IQ. But apparently you can't tell the difference.

You seem unable to comprehend that we are talking about whether cannabis use lowers your IQ.... what would be the point in testing someone when they were not under the influence?

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

Because the effect isn't permanent. The only thing you would be measuring would be a temporary change in mental state. If you REALLY wanted to test if marijuana effects IQ. You test a bunch of people baseline at a certain age. Then have them smoke marijuana heavily for a few years. Then test them again after the few years. Scientists only care about a permanent change in IQ from a substance, not a temporary one.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
.... what would be the point in testing someone when they were not under the influence?

Korg.

Because the majority of users I know DO NOT conduct there daily lives while under the influence. They dont go to work stoned ect They leave it until there private times and who the hell has the right to tell them what to do in there own homes while on holiday? You? NO!

If its does lower you IQ temporarily? So what? As long as its in recreation time and not at Work/college/school I dont see a problem.

Same principle with alcohol. Most normal people dont turn up to work drunk.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
.... what would be the point in testing someone when they were not under the influence?

Korg.

Because the majority of users I know DO NOT conduct there daily lives while under the influence. They dont go to work stoned ect They leave it until there private times and who the hell has the right to tell them what to do in there own homes while on holiday? You? NO!

If its does lower you IQ temporarily? So what? As long as its in recreation time and not at Work/college/school I dont see a problem.

Same principle with alcohol. Most normal people dont turn up to work drunk.

Really??

Do you know how long THC lasts in the body?

Korg.