What I’ve Learned About Guns (Part II – Firearms, Ammunition and Accessories)

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Is there a rule of thumb for barrel wear?

If you buy a factory built rifle ... the manufacturer can give you better than a pretty good guess. You'll probably want to send them the request for information in writing and provide the specs of the ammunition you commonly use. People who see requests in writing care about the reputations of their products and have zero interest in bad information going viral. What you'll get in response is nothing (which I'd be interested to hear) or bull's eye accuracy.

Watch this video from the 2:40 mark to 3:10 (you might learn something by surprise by watching the whole thing). Note the use of the phrase "harmonic in nature."

If you're in the market for a used gun, you can actually measure the barrel, if you know the specs, and look for stretching (it don't take much). I reckon gunsmiths probably have other tricks up their sleeves too. I don't pry ... much. I usually just write a barrel off when my shot group drifts out of normal range.

Maybe 'Marlin' will come back and 'Grace' us with indicators specific to handguns.

Just wanted to add -
This guy does some great videos on ammo.
Gel tests, bullet weight after firing, expansion measurements, chronometer tests, penetration compared to FBI standards, etc... Really gets in to the details. He's saved me some money by watching his videos vs wasting money on sub par ammo. Here's the one on 115 gr Silvertips.
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: DAVID64
This guy does some great videos on ammo.
Here's the one on 115 gr Silvertips.
www.youtube.com...

I like that guy, too.
Here's his video on the 155gr Silvertips I prefer.

Published on Jun 3, 2013
Testing the 40 S&W 155 grain Winchester Silvertip Hollow Point. What a round, shot from a Glock 23 Gen4 4 inch barrel thru four layers of denim (per IWBA protocol) into calibrated ballistic gelatin. You seen the results, spot on! Peneatration was 13+ weight retention was 100% and expansion was impressive. Damn good choice for home defense and an awesome round for SHTF. Hanging with the big dogs on this round without the expensive pricetag!

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Is there a rule of thumb for barrel wear?

19,000 rounds at 100 rounds a day would be 190 days, or at two days per week about two years.

I read that after two years, where ever you are dwelling becomes home, emotionally.

Actually I shot 2000 a week for almost 3 years over a span of 4 barrels in two guns. If you're an A shooter in IPSC and want to move to master level most draw that many times a day to keep muscle memory and shoot that much for practice with both hands in all positions.

I shot Bowling Pins, Steel Plates, IPSC, and Steel Challenge regularly indoor and outdoor. Greatest bunch of people there are is competition shooters. It is said IPSC is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

It is truly humbling to be in the presence of a dedicated competition shooter. Good at what you want to be is one thing. Competitive is a whole 'nother reality!! I wonder how many people will happen across this thread in the years to come ... and run those numbers you posted, through their heads.

I'm trying to remain

thinking how to say this next thing. The ego crushing reality of contemplating what it would be like to stand and face an IPSC Master in an Old West style duel. The guy wouldn't even concern himself with coming under return fire. It doesn't get any more unfair than that ... except cold-blooded murder.

The quick draw guys are much faster, and IPSC is a game that makes you very proficient at gun handling, shooting, and speed because nobody is shooting back. It's the military guys with nerves of steel that have my reverence. To know everyday when you head out someone wants to kill you I will stick with competition nobody shoots back.

Thanks, great info you provided.

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Is there a rule of thumb for barrel wear?

I don't pry ... much. I usually just write a barrel off when my shot group drifts out of normal range.

The best shooters are all sponsored and don't have to do anything with their guns, For the most part when accuracy disappears you know its time, and at that point you know you have already shot some serious ammo through you gun.
So much is predicated on powder type, bullet type, etc. Most serious IPSC shooters competing at the national level load with the best quality components. Many prefer JHP because the copper is wrapped around the lead core back to front instead of front to back like a SWC. When looking at the base of the bullet it is generally flat, and not concaved with visible lead.

This allows barrel pressure to be evenly distributed at the base when leaving the barrel and provides better accuracy if you're capable of noticing it. This of course works only if the barrel has a good crown.

My primary racegun is chambered in 38 super in a std 1911 configuration on a caspian hicap frame, Ed Brown slide, Barstow barrel, and the internal parts vary in MFG. Capacity is 19 in the magazine 4 mags on the belt and for special stages I have 2 magazines that have been cut and welded together for 26 rounds. I had the gun assembled and built from parts by Jojo Vidanes in Norco Ca. great guy incredible shooter and world champion. He is a grand master IPSC shooter, that means he shoots in the top 5% worldwide. You won't find a nicer guy, more helpful always bringing people to the sport.

At that time in my life all my loading was done on a Dillion 1050 with 115gr JHP 10.2 gr of 540 with winchester brass and primers. They don't make 540 anymore but Vihtavuori works well just a little pricey. Also at that time all of the serious shooters would pull money together and buy bullets by the pallet to save money.

Double tap...... lol

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
Double tap...... lol

LMAO ... I'm stealing that.

I asked permission from the FSME before throwing these threads together. ATS isn't a gun blog, even though there seems to be several interested folks helping us all out. In that light, I didn't pull together the info I have regarding reloading. You should think about that.

I run a 650, a 1050, and my original single stage (For development and real precision? No ... for nostalgia. LOL).

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
Double tap...... lol

LMAO ... I'm stealing that.

I asked permission from the FSME before throwing these threads together. ATS isn't a gun blog, even though there seems to be several interested folks helping us all out. In that light, I didn't pull together the info I have regarding reloading. You should think about that.

I run a 650, a 1050, and my original single stage (For development and real precision? No ... for nostalgia. LOL).

I was never was a traditional shooter really I worked up a load that made major power factor for the super and just ran bunches of super. I was lucky I had a woman at the time that liked pulling the handle, being somewhat mindless and between the two of us we stayed busy. I really didn't do any experimenting there just wasn't much time. Between loading and cleaning and working to support the addiction there was no time to relax and shoot for the relaxing pleasure.

The shotgun and 22 Lapua ammo I shot was free when I was practicing as a team member for chevy truck. So I loaded super for IPSC and 45 ACP for bowling pins. When I had the time to shoot 3 gun the AR ammo was factory black hills 52 gr JHP good stuff for this particular gun. 1/2" groups at 100 yrds. If I remember it was 1 in 7 twist. It had a 16" barrel with a comp and bark when you pulled the trigger. So fun to shoot.

I just got a AR10 lower to build and want to start some experimenting with ammo for that, just do the old guy thing have fun and relax. I don't know how much I could contribute to reloading, other than I really don't like it, I would rather pull the trigger.

BTW a single stage is great for accurate rifle loading, you aren't fooling me you must be a long distance guy. If my heart was in better shape I would love to shoot a 50 in one mile competition, that would be a ball. Maybe i could do one of those HD tripod mounted jobs with a laminated stock, talk about an investment. So now we know don't be pissing off the snarly one closer than 800 yrds.

When I cock my Ruger Security Six it has a hair trigger, nothing difficult about pulling it. In fact, its my favorite gun for its sheer simplicity. I love me a revolver...super easy.

Great thread!

I have had quite a few guns over the years. I have settled on the ones that feel the best to me. I like Ruger and S&W for revolvers and Taurus and Glock for 9mm. The GP100 is a great gun. I also like the Blackhawk a lot. Its single action, but I can keep a very tight pattern with that gun. As for ammo, I like silvertip for .357 but not for 9mm. I prefer fluted, jacketed, hollow points no matter what the gun is.

There are a few pieces of advice I can offer that may help someone along the way. First, practice the way you play. Range loads are great for running hundreds of rounds through your gun but aren't the same as a heavier load. With a revolver I always mix a round or two of a heavier load in with the range loads. That way every once in a while I get a full size boom instead of the popping of range loads. It keeps me on my toes and reminds me what real ammunition sounds like. On that note, it doesn't hurt to fire a round or two with no headgear on. I know that sounds like a bad idea, but it really isn't. You need to know what it sounds like so you wont be surprised by it in a real life situation. That moment when you stare in awe at your gun is the moment when the other guy aims and fires. You can also ask your range-master if he can dim the lights for a few minutes to simulate night or evening conditions. Seeing a muzzle blast in the dark is another thing that will get your full attention if you aren't ready for it. The idea I am getting at is nothing that happens when you pull the trigger should be a surprise. If it is, you aren't ready for whatever situation you found yourself in.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

I just got a AR10 lower to build and want to start some experimenting with ammo for that, just do the old guy thing have fun and relax. I don't know how much I could contribute to reloading, other than I really don't like it, I would rather pull the trigger.

Great minds. I just consigned a smith down in Ala to do a custom 10 build for me. All giddy just thinking about it. I favor shooting from the left side. So getting burnt -vs- getting kicked was an easy choice I no longer felt compelled to make.

Biggest headache for me doing batch loading was the cleaning process. I never imagined how filthy that end of the work was ... so I became innovative. Mike Rowe's got nothing up on re-loaders. LOL

And, yes. My mind is nowhere as quick as most folks here. Range gives me plenty of time to think. -grin-

-Cheers, brother.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You can also ask your range-master if he can dim the lights for a few minutes to simulate night or evening conditions.

What a great idea!! I have never even thought about that on an indoor range.

I've been going back through some of the links I've saved over the years. I think this is a good video addition to this thread. Maybe a little long, but holsters cost a pretty penny these days. This will hopefully assist you in narrowing down your choices.

There are some recommendations I don't apply (not that I entirely disagree with the producer of this video). Most of what he says, I agree with ... in its entirety. Since there's some much less on the disagreement side, I'll hit those up-front, and a general description follows below. Not nit-picking. This post is permanent and I want it to count.

Pocket Carry: I pocket-carry only one type of firearm he shows in this video. Looks like he carries that on his waist. I do NOT use a pocket holster. There are several reasons, but the primary ones are (1) I cannot fire from my pocket if the weapon is holstered (2) I would have to purchase a lot of holsters to suit my clothing (3) It would add weight to something that's already reaching the pocket-carry weight limit for me.



So this guy carries a lot of firearms of differing types with a primary commonality. The gun comes out of the holster, he strokes the trigger, and it fires. He's very honest too ... and I like that. He covers his typical methods of body carry ... and didn't address ankle-carry. Sometimes we omit the obvious.

Side Note: Ankle-carry is a specialty. If you don't have a reason to ... don't. It is too easy for that weapon to be taken from you. Anyone who's going to take it, probably knows you have it before the assault begins, and # just gets worse from there.

He gives some great pointers, but you have to extrapolate. You can hear him tell how and why he migrated from various methods of carry, to primarily IWB (Inside the WaistBand). Think about this as you're reading part three of this series.

Interesting Side Note: His daily carry mirrors that of our Weapons FSME. Interesting indeed.

-Cheers

a reply to: CaticusMaximus

Caticus ... forgive me ... I was just re-reading this thread and saw I never answered you.

I'm a precision shooter. I don't think I own a long gun that won't shoot under a quarter minute of angle. My 'sniper' rifles all shoot between .10 and .15. The cost that comes with that is barrel replacement. You can tell when your barrel is becoming a problem, because you can't put a tight group on paper anymore. Sometimes, you might get lucky and get by with a re-crowning, but even that is labor intensive. I really hate going through all the motions of replacing a barrel.

If you're curious I'll tell you what a buddy of mine is doing with his .338.

Barrel wear has always been somewhat of a mystery to me. I can tell you it's real, because you can certainly measure a decline in accuracy, and you can see it restored post-replacement. I suspect the normal cause is continuous firing through an overheated barrel (abuse). Then you've got chemical and mechanical degradation (watch out if you're shooting Russian ammo in yours). For those things, I've never found a formula to work by and that's probably because there is a lot of variation in barrel steel composition and hardness. An excellent rule to live by is ensuring the removal of carbon fouling before you go to bed.

I have a PSL-54C that fires 148gr 7.62x54R. How long should that barrel last?

Just about forever if it's chrome lined. The factory condition PSL-54C has a 2.5 MOA level of accuracy. I don't believe it was really intended for accurate shooting ... though it looks so similar to the Druganov I can hardly tell them apart. That said, you're shooting a full-powered round and the barrel's accuracy will degrade ... just not noticeably (unless you really abuse her). You could also be fooled by an improvement in Point of Impact caused by copper fouling. However, you clear that fouling and you might start wondering where your accuracy improvement has gotten off to.

Here's a video I made effective use of over the weekend:
ETA: This video covers the general information you need to know about adjusting the drop on a Benelli M2 shotgun. It makes a very noticeable difference.