What I’ve Learned About Guns (Part II – Firearms, Ammunition and Accessories)

My apologies for drawing this out over multiple threads. Even in five, this is taking the shape of a TLDR effort. I know now why editors get paid a respectable wage.

• Confidence is the key.

On the range, never squeeze the trigger until your shot will count. Yeah, I still miss a few with the pistola now and then. If the wind’s acting up, 600 yards and beyond is a tough shot to make no matter how much money you’ve spent. Range time is where you develop proficiencies. Burn up the rounds. Spend five or six quick shots on a target. If you miss the first shot, I’ll say it, “You suck.” You don’t land four out of the five left, “You suck even worse.”

• Buying a decent gun is expensive … as it should be.

If you can’t afford the gun, you can’t afford the volume of ammo necessary to develop the required skill to use it … and it doesn’t matter what the circumstances happen to be. Go back to confidence is the key.

• When it comes to self-defense, your choice of barrel length (and to some small degree, barrel diameter/caliber) should be based on the distance at which you expect to fight.

I carry a snub-nosed .357 revolver, un-holstered, in my jacket pocket. Without pulling it out, I will hit you with all five rounds if you’re closer than 20 feet away. How? Because I’ve practiced. Wife has had to sew up my range jacket after almost every practice session … except the one time it caught on fire. I didn’t tell her about that … and you don’t need to say anything either if you ever meet her.

• With the exception of short-barreled revolvers … ammunition selection (bullet weight, construction, shape, and velocity) had better be something you’re not making guesses about.

Test your selections thoroughly at the range. Don’t zero your weapon at 100 yards and confidently believe you can deliver an accurate shot to 600 and beyond.

Ammunition is another subject it would take a book cover. Feel free to go crazy with what you know. Since I hand-load the vast majority of my ammunition, I’ll just shut mouth ‘til we get into the specifics that topic below.

• The revolver is the most reliable handgun to shoot, but it’s the most difficult common firearm to shoot well. A heavy trigger and trigger travel require dedication to master.

As I mentioned earlier, my revolver doesn’t come out of my jacket pocket. Though I find it hard to believe, apparently S&W doesn’t manufacture that model anymore, but it’s DAO with exceptionally low profile sights and an internal hammer. This gun was ‘made’ to be fired from concealment. There’s nothing built into its design that might cause a malfunction when operated this way. Though I have numerous speed loaders, they’re of no practical use to me off the range.

• There are many completely reliable semi-automatic handguns on the market today.

Like most people, I have my preference, but the one you want is the one you can draw, fire, and hit your target with the first shot (and repeatedly if necessary). Not much else matters.

The cheapest way to do this is to draw on yourself in a mirror. You’re going to need the gun. You’re going to need the holster you’ll be wearing. If that gun is not pointed right at you when you pull the trigger, you need something different. OBTW, unless you’re a natural, you need to know what you’re doing to make this advice count.

• Carbines – a kind of rifle with a short barrel. If your fight is at distances of 30 to 50 yards, this is what you’re after. Work a few thousand rounds and you can be just as deadly out to 500 yards. FYI – It’s hard to see a stationary man @500 yards, let alone put a bullet on him with standard iron sights.
• Battle rifle – typically a .30 cal weapon which ranges out to a thousand yards. The AK (7.62X39) and its numerous variants fall far below this capability.
• A quality, bolt-action, hunting rifle is the most accurate firearm generally available to a person of modest means. You’ll probably need a scope to get the most out of a weapon in this category. They’re an oft unconsidered expense.
• Shotguns – Great for snakes and birds. Endorsed by VP Joe Biden for home defense. The boom they make might scare the crap out of anyone you didn’t just turn into hamburger.

• Ammunition is a very personal choice.

If a gun is your hammer, the bullet is your nail. Different pennyweights for different jobs. Just like you’re not going to use a jeweler’s chasing hammer for roofing work, you’re not going to use a sledgehammer to work on your backyard birdfeeder.

The length and weight of your barrel are critical in defining the best ammunition for use with your weapon. Study this. It’s critical to know and understand. Every weapon has a favorite. Your job is to find it and believe in it. The longer the barrel … the more you have to know.

The higher the pressure of your round … and the heavier your round is … the faster your barrel will wear out. I have never felt compelled to replace the barrel on any weapon 7.62X51 and below. I deal with a costly replacement on the barrel of my 30-06 about every thousand rounds. About 500 on my .300 WinMag. Knowing this will hopefully keep you from constantly switching your selection of bullets back and forth.

Understand the ballistic effects of the ammunition you select. Look up terminal ballistics and hydrostatic shock.

My personal preferences:
.357 Magnum
Federal 125gr JHP
Remington full-power 125gr semi-JHP

.40 cal
Cor-bon 135gr or 150gr JHP (have been aggressively recommended to me)
Winchester Silvertip 155gr JHP

.223/5.56 (I know they’re in different leagues -grin-)
Hornady Superperformance Varmint V-Max 53gr
**Ammo stock for my ARs is varied and extensive. The listing above is just my preference … and that’s for varminting.

.308
Hornady SST 150gr

30-06
Hornady SST 165gr

300 WinMag
Hornady SST 180gr

I only buy factory ammo for the cartridge cases. It’s hard to beat Hornady brass. If you're limited to factory ammunition (which is really good these days) pay more attention to the bullet’s weight, than the manufacturer. If you know a re-loader, buy cartridge with a case made from high quality/re-usable brass. He'll love you for it.

-cont

a reply to: Snarl

-cont

• Accessories are limitless.

Watch out!! This is where shooting gets really expensive. Laser sights for handguns. Taclights for any and everything. Blah-blah, blah-blah, blah-blah.

The first thing you’ll need is hearing protection. The best recent advances in the firearms business are in this frequently under-planned-for area. I strongly advise you go the electronic route, but cigarette butts will do in a pinch. I would go deep into this subject area, but I don’t want to give any freaks ‘great ideas’.

Get a good holster. One you can wear all day … from the time you get out of the shower and dress, until you take your clothes off for bed. You need a belt suitable for supporting this. My primary holster rides just behind my hipbone. My secondary is a shoulder holster and is only for use in vehicles. When (and this is as rare as never) I open carry, I’m thigh strapped. Tactical = chest rig, because I’ve already transitioned to a rifle. Just like you don’t want to bring a knife to a gunfight, you probably want something better than a handgun when things get serious.

I don’t prefer kydex against my skin (it leaves me sore), yet this is some of the best stuff on the market. Leather needs to be cleaned regularly. The stiffer the material, the more consistent the draw.

I mounted a red dot sight on my carbine. It probably was a tactically sound decision, but I can’t reconcile my satisfaction with the cost. Will I take it off … no. What is worth its weight in gold is my PVS14. Nighttime and lowlight conditions exist for more than half of the day. Any device which is an aid at such times provides a tactical advantage many would simply consider unfair. I don’t care … I want to win!!

My long guns all have a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T M1 scopes. This is a very personal preference, so YMMV. What you want is a scope that will not lose its zero under recoil, or simply break. If your cheek-to-stock weld is highly consistent, you can get by on a lot less $$$. Just remember, upgrading is a setback financially, in more ways than up-front costs. To test a scope before buying it, take it outside and look through it at dusk. You’ll see what I mean.

I disagree with the Silvertip ammo. I use to carry a short barrel .41 magnum and used those in it. Shot just fine, perfectly accurate. The 9mm Silvertip on the other hand, is crap. It's not the gun, [Glock 19 Gen 4 ] every other decent ammo I've ran through it does great, but the one box of those I used, well, let's just say I won't be buying any more.
Don't know if you covered this in other threads, but you forgot? one thing. Train with the ammo you're going to carry. Don't train with 115 grain FMJ, if you're going to carry with 147 gr JHP.

I like a jacket/pocket pistol.. To hot and too humid I ended up carrying (believe it or not) a leather man purse that the long heavy duty strap went over my shoulder and head. That was a great set up for I never had to pull my carry firearm out of the pouch. Hand in, trigger pulled was all one needed. The MAN purse could be slid anywhere from the six to the 12 O'clock position depending on what you were doing.. Driving or restaurants were always a pain with a holster for me... unless it was a shoulder holster with a jacket.

Good writing Snarl S^F

a reply to: DAVID64

Don't know if you covered this in other threads, but you forgot? one thing. Train with the ammo you're going to carry. Don't train with 115 grain FMJ, if you're going to carry with 147 gr JHP.

You're right. Thanks for bringing that up early. I'll repeat that in tomorrow's thread.

Good to know about your experience with the Silvertip ammo, too. I was thoroughly impressed with its terminal ballistics. I'll be reconsidering that choice based on your experience, but I've got a lot of bullets to go through first. One of the reasons all of my factory rifle ammo comes from Hornady, is the consistency of quality control across their entire product line.

-Cheers

a reply to: Snarl

Great post, read part I yesterday.

Since you bring it up, I've actually had a hankering for a small wheel gun lately, preferably something capable of .38/.357. About to start the research and shopping phase on finding one.

What wisdom can you share in regards to selection? What barrel length is a fairly comfortable pocket carry? My Gen III Glock 23 has been my regular (10 years experience with it) but looking for something smaller. A full-size frame for carry is getting a little old. Also, looking for something with either factory equipped tritium sights (or similar) or the ability to have them fitted. That is a must, since standard irons can be quite a disadvantage in low light situations, when the excrement is most likely to meet the air circulator.

The only revolver I've had much experience with was Grandpa's old 22LR. A few times on the range with a 6" barrel .357 Super Blackhawk. I think thats what gave me the revolver itch.

My G23 though, has been with me for 10 years now, and I'm fairly proficient and very comfortable with it. What are some tips for making the switch to a revolver as far as changes in technique?

Spot on on the shotgun section, my inherited old (late 60's to early 70's, made in Ilion NY) 870 Wingmasters (12 and 20, matching set ) have put down many skunks, armadillos, possums, and other vermin that tear up the yard.

Maybe a later section covering shot size selection for different gauges and purposes?

S&F

Also, learned a great conceal carry trick from a local LEO: Oversized, long and loose T-shirts are your friend.

ETA: The only time my life was on the line and I had to slap leather, just the act of drawing and aiming was enough to resolve the situation. Truly hope to never have to double-tap when it counts.

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

My pocket carry is the S&W 640, sometimes called a Chief's Special. I'm sure I saw a S&W site categorizing this model as a legacy product ... and that surprised me. I just checked their main site and it's still a listed model, so I don't know what to say. You will 'feel it' if you're shooting .357. If you're going to introduce this to your wife, I'd suggest you let her get used to it with .38s ... and get her to wear a decent shooting glove.

I warn you, a two-handed grip can lead to serious injury with a gun this small. If your off-trigger hand gets anywhere near the cylinder the blast from escaping gases where the cylinder meets the barrel can take flesh. With a barrel this short, you don't have to mis-aim by very much to miss by a long way ... so plan to run a lot of ammo in practice (that's why I have so many speed loaders). Also, this is the only firearm where I practice heavily with rounds I don't carry. It's not the cost, my hand just can't take the pounding the .357 delivers.

Like you, I carry a Glock 23. Here's a video that shows how easy it is to replace your sights.

No rocket science required should you need to make slight adjustments for windage.

Since you already own a quality handgun, and you've invested 10 years becoming familiar with it, my suggestion is: don't transition to a revolver. You are, IMNSHO, carrying the most reliable personal defense weapon on the market today.

Hate to leave you hanging on shotgun ammo info. Somebody with more knowledge needs to step-up and take that request. The only type I use is for skeet #8 (if that helps). I don't think I have even a whole box of shells in the rack. This (and clay shooting) is a sport I've always wanted to develop skills for.

-Cheers

a reply to: Snarl

Ah, thanks for the info. Yes, I do love my Glock, after countless rounds never had a single FTE or FTF. A lot of people seem to talk trash on them, but, to each their own.

Already have night sights on the Glock, in the standard |_| reticle shape I'm so accustomed to now. Gen III. Thanks for the vid though, for any others who might be curious.

Went by the local store today to window shop, and this little baby is probably what I'll go with.


Ruger GP-100 .357 Mag with 3" barrel, Nickel plated. Think I'm in love already, just felt right in the hand. And a pretty fair price on it. Spoke to the 'smith about night sights, he said its a pretty tall order on a revolver compared to most semi-autos, so will probably keep it old school and go without em. Had a great balance to it, point of aim was very instinctual and natural.

Also, the old lady is skeered of nearly everything bigger than her .380... Except the .243 rifle. She digs the "BOOM!" on that puppy.

a reply to: Snarl

"If you can’t afford the gun, you can’t afford the volume of ammo necessary to develop the required skill to use it"

This should be on a plaque at every shooting range in the world.

When I first started shooting IPSC I was at an indoor range with a friend testing a 45 I just had seriously modified. In the next lane my friend inserts a magazine into his Para Ordnance 38super and at the end of the range puts 10 shots into the center very quickly with a C-more and a 3mm dot. He runs his target back and hands it to me, being new I said holy cow thats amazing how long did it take you to be able to shoot that well. He smiled and said two 10lb cans of powder and you will be able to do the same. At that time that was a little over 19,000 rounds.

He was a great friend and teacher, my round count far exceeds 19,000 and I now shoot pretty well myself. It's the commitment that makes you proficient, and like everything else it takes ammo, practice and muscle memory to be a really great shooter. I have shot with a few of them and they have an extraordinary commitment.

This is great info Snarl, anyone interested in firearms should read it before heading out to buy a firearm or pull a trigger.

Excellent thread Snarl! Your advice is all spot on and helpful. I don't think it was your intent but your wording regarding shotguns made them sound somewhat less desirable than other weapons (to me anyway)

Shotguns – Great for snakes and birds. Endorsed by VP Joe Biden for home defense. The boom they make might scare the crap out of anyone you didn’t just turn into hamburger.

Joe Biden isn't exactly the "go-to guy" for weapons advice and snakes and birds aren't much of an adversary. For the novice shooter with little time or money to practice the shotgun may well be their best choice for home defense. Unless you're shooting slugs/sabots aiming pretty close is good enough for a hit. Also, if wall penetration and hurting family is a concern shells loaded with birdshot or less-than-lethal ammo can still disable an attacker without injuring your sleeping child in the bedroom next door.

One of my favorite guns is the Taurus Judge because it can shoot either .410 shotgun shells or .45 long colt. Not that you'll get any accuracy past 10 yards with either but generally anything further away than that isn't a threat. It's an ideal gun for carry in your car and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I haven't read your previous thread but do you discuss .22lr or any of the variations? Not real stopping power but still deadly if your shots are well placed and incomparable for survivalists who need a versatile weapon with ammo light enough to carry more than couple hundred rounds.

Question: For shooting beyond 500 yards do you prefer your .300 win by any chance?

Great stuff, keep 'em coming buddy!

Shotguns tend to be long and so are easier to aim intuitively, especially for novices.

Aim center mass.

Is there a rule of thumb for barrel wear?

19,000 rounds at 100 rounds a day would be 190 days, or at two days per week about two years.

I read that after two years, where ever you are dwelling becomes home, emotionally.

originally posted by: Snarl

The higher the pressure of your round … and the heavier your round is … the faster your barrel will wear out. I have never felt compelled to replace the barrel on any weapon 7.62X51 and below. I deal with a costly replacement on the barrel of my 30-06 about every thousand rounds. About 500 on my .300 WinMag. Knowing this will hopefully keep you from constantly switching your selection of bullets back and forth.

Can you elaborate and go into more detail about this? I was under the impression that unless the jacket material on a bullet was of the same hardness, or greater, than the inside barrel material itself, there would almost never be a need to change the barrel due to wear except after the most extensive of use.

Of all my and my friends guns, only one ever had a worn out barrel, and it was, I think, an M1 mauser that fired 8mm solid nickel bullets. I think it was used as anti-tank in WWI. It essentially had no rifling left at all... but was fun to shoot anyway... well, at least fun until after feeling the recoil.

I have a PSL-54C that fires 148gr 7.62x54R. How long should that barrel last?

a reply to: Snarl

I will consider your scope recommendation. I've been wanting something good that had a good bang:buck ratio. My dad had a Leupold 4X on a .222 when I was a kid, and I could tear raggedy holes with that thing all day long.

Overall, very good advice. I don't get an opportunity to get in a lot of range time, like many people, I am sure. I also don't have unlimited funds to be developing muscle memory with .45 Hydra-Shok, either. I tend to believe that it can't hurt to do some drills with a .22 to save money. Better than doing nothing, anyway.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Question: For shooting beyond 500 yards do you prefer your .300 win by any chance?

When we're narrowing conditions down to range, my favorite rifle is the 30-06. With the right everything (bullet, powder, environment), I'm pretty good out to the limitations of that round ... about a thousand yards.

Note that I said pretty good ... meaning it's a challenge for me. And, I said 'about' a thousand yards. When we're talking about accuracy at terminal ranges, the greatest factor of the bullet's final performance is during its transition from supersonic to subsonic speed. I've never met anyone who can consistently forecast those events.

Specific to the .300. It's a weapon I would go to only in a WROL environment. The .300 has a very flat trajectory and will go straight through any body armor I've ever seen ... all of it. Otherwise, it's simply an overkill round. .300s can always be found in relatively new condition/barely used for dirt cheap. I classify them as "insurance" for bad times. Mine goes with me to practice, but I put 15 rounds or less down range in a day. I would never recommend anything that powerful to anyone except for the reasons previously stated.

Out to 'around' 800 yards, I recommend the .308. It's still got enough kick to dissuade the average shooter from reaching expert proficiency. 500 yards or less, a 5.56 semi-auto (not .223 mind you) and thoughtful bullet choice is what I recommend to the occasional shooter. People could effectively argue the round is not enough for bigger game ... and I would agree. Glad that's out of they way.

BTW, I meant exactly what I said about shotguns, and I'm glad you saw that and drew attention to it. You can't beat them for their ability to take a bird in flight. The snake thing was a little tongue-in-cheek. They are very dangerous weapons ... and they are the last weapon I would ever recommend anyone own. I want you to go back and read what MarlinGrace said, and then I want you to name for yourself five people you know who have fired 10,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.

And, I don't want this to sound snotty either. Take that Taurus Judge, stand back ten yards, and fire a .410 round at a very, very large flat surface (I'm talking about something as broad as a barn). Note the pattern. Think about whether or not that would possibly stop something like a Rottweiler from getting you. Think about the recoil from your first shot and whether you'd have time to get off a well placed second shot while that dog is leaping for your throat ('cause he's probably thinking "kill or be killed" after that first one). Will you hit someone behind your target?

It took me a lot of runs through the shoot-house to conclude the best weapon for the defense of your home is a properly configured AR-15 platform, followed closely by a high-capacity handgun loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs. Please ... Please ... do what you can to reach this conclusion for yourself. Making this point was a primary factor for me starting this series of threads, and I thank you for creating the opening for discussion.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Is there a rule of thumb for barrel wear?

19,000 rounds at 100 rounds a day would be 190 days, or at two days per week about two years.

I read that after two years, where ever you are dwelling becomes home, emotionally.

Actually I shot 2000 a week for almost 3 years over a span of 4 barrels in two guns. If you're an A shooter in IPSC and want to move to master level most draw that many times a day to keep muscle memory and shoot that much for practice with both hands in all positions.

I shot Bowling Pins, Steel Plates, IPSC, and Steel Challenge regularly indoor and outdoor. Greatest bunch of people there are is competition shooters. It is said IPSC is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

"Test your selections thoroughly at the range. Don’t zero your weapon at 100 yards and confidently believe you can deliver an accurate shot to 600 and beyond."

Don’t zero your weapon at 100 yards, zero your weapon at 200 yards.
get a Ballistic plex reticle scope and learn how to use it and you can hit anything out to 600 yards.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Question: For shooting beyond 500 yards do you prefer your .300 win by any chance?

BTW, I meant exactly what I said about shotguns, and I'm glad you saw that and drew attention to it. You can't beat them for their ability to take a bird in flight. The snake thing was a little tongue-in-cheek. They are very dangerous weapons ... and they are the last weapon I would ever recommend anyone own. I want you to go back and read what MarlinGrace said, and then I want you to name for yourself five people you know who have fired 10,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.

And, I don't want this to sound snotty either. Take that Taurus Judge, stand back ten yards, and fire a .410 round at a very, very large flat surface (I'm talking about something as broad as a barn). Note the pattern. Think about whether or not that would possibly stop something like a Rottweiler from getting you. Think about the recoil from your first shot and whether you'd have time to get off a well placed second shot while that dog is leaping for your throat ('cause he's probably thinking "kill or be killed" after that first one). Will you hit someone behind your target?

Great point about the spread and lack of real knock-down from the Taurus. Just the other night, I needed to take down a skunk out in the back yard/pasture. Nailed the sucker twice from about 10 yards out each shot, using a 20ga loaded with birdshot (7&1/2.) Even with a full-choke 24" barrel, he was still running (a bit slower) after shot 1, and still kicking and crawling after shot 2.

Had to run back in the house for a few more shells, grabbed some 4 shot that time, and that FINALLY finished the tough SOB off on shot 3. So I'm thinking .410 out of a practically non-existent barrel wouldn't do much more than piss off something bigger than a squirrel. Unless you're talking slugs, but then... Why not just use a bullet?

I'd say one of the most important aspects of shotgunning is learning how to lead your target.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Is there a rule of thumb for barrel wear?

19,000 rounds at 100 rounds a day would be 190 days, or at two days per week about two years.

I read that after two years, where ever you are dwelling becomes home, emotionally.

Actually I shot 2000 a week for almost 3 years over a span of 4 barrels in two guns. If you're an A shooter in IPSC and want to move to master level most draw that many times a day to keep muscle memory and shoot that much for practice with both hands in all positions.

I shot Bowling Pins, Steel Plates, IPSC, and Steel Challenge regularly indoor and outdoor. Greatest bunch of people there are is competition shooters. It is said IPSC is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

It is truly humbling to be in the presence of a dedicated competition shooter. Good at what you want to be is one thing. Competitive is a whole 'nother reality!! I wonder how many people will happen across this thread in the years to come ... and run those numbers you posted, through their heads.

I'm trying to remain thinking how to say this next thing. The ego crushing reality of contemplating what it would be like to stand and face an IPSC Master in an Old West style duel. The guy wouldn't even concern himself with coming under return fire. It doesn't get any more unfair than that ... except cold-blooded murder.

a reply to: Snarl

and then I want you to name for yourself five people you know who have fired 10,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.

A few friends of mine used to be big into shotgun competitions... If they had fillings for their teeth after a few years they needed replacement.. hahhaha no B.S.

A heavy slug at close range for it's knock down power or as you mentioned taking birds on the wing are great shotgun uses ... A good pistol or a properly equipped AR covers just about everything out to 500 yards.

I did pop a fairly large pig at 327 yards (double pop and lucky) he was DRT but the shots were "wow" and I was just trying to slow him down until I could get closer.. The velocity of the 5.56 at 75 to 150 yards is awesome as far as wound channel and basically tearing huge chunks of meat out of a target with the proper weighted bullet ...

I read a couple of stories from Alaska:

One story was about a women who was cooking supper when a Grisly started breaking into her front door to see what was
cooking... Everything happen so fast all she could grab was a .22 pistol... as the bear's head pried open the door she shot it in the ear channel.. DRT.... Maybe B.S. but one heck of a story..

Another woman got tired of a Bull Moose breaking into her summer garden so one day she popped him with her AR.. (don't remember the round she used or how many shots) Bull Moose DRT.. Neither of those stories are impossible... but I would rather have other options in those particular situations. Shot placement makes up for other short comings....

I look at some of the modern body armor and in a pray and spray type shooting event the armor is better than nothing... However someone who has the time and set-up... That armor is nothing but gaps and decent targets to stop the wearer... Even if a B.G. is shot in the foot, that usually takes the fight out of them.