Noam Chomsky UN Speech Israel/Palestine.

Very knowledgable as always and a lot of insight into the history of the conflict including Israels blatant and repeated breaking of ceasefires with refusals to even accept ceasefires on occasion. Also covers the U.S. inolvement and the Western media approach to the years of violence and abuses of power in the West Bank/Gaza.

Well worth a watch

a reply to: Zcustosmorum


When walking a narrow path, its always good to look forward. Today, most of the nations in UN have acknowledged Palestine as a state, and now amongst European Union has Sweden taken the first major step and strongly moving to get Palestine acknowledged even in that club of nations.

So, the next question is not perhaps the history, which we know is bloody and unfair, but how to build a Future, and get the Palestine to become a sustainable nation amongst nations. Giving less reason for Israel to monger and provocate.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Very knowledgable as always and a lot of insight into the history of the conflict including Israels blatant and repeated breaking of ceasefires with refusals to even accept ceasefires on occasion. Also covers the U.S. inolvement and the Western media approach to the years of violence and abuses of power in the West Bank/Gaza.

Well worth a watch

Yes .. let's look at them breaking a ceasefire.

From a pro-Palestinian source.

A relative of the dead man, who was at the scene, told Reuters that Qudaih had been trying to place a Hamas flag on the fence. He added that an Israeli soldier had fired into the air three times before Qdeih was hit in the head by a bullet.

www.maannews.net...

So they warned him, he kept coming, and eventually they shot him. Sorry, that's on the Palestinian.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'm not quite sure I understand your point but if you are trying to say that Palestinians are the ones to blame for this mess then I'll just say that in order for a problem to be fixed, the truth first has to be accepted. Yes, there is an aggressor here and for the past 40 years it has been Israel. If you disagree with that, then I strongly advise you to question your history books.

And may I remind, in 2007 fair & democratic elections were held in Palestine and the people voted for Hamas, this didn't go down well with Israel and in turn they ordered more embargoes & illegal settlements.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Very knowledgable as always and a lot of insight into the history of the conflict including Israels blatant and repeated breaking of ceasefires with refusals to even accept ceasefires on occasion. Also covers the U.S. inolvement and the Western media approach to the years of violence and abuses of power in the West Bank/Gaza.

Well worth a watch

Yes .. let's look at them breaking a ceasefire.

From a pro-Palestinian source.

A relative of the dead man, who was at the scene, told Reuters that Qudaih had been trying to place a Hamas flag on the fence. He added that an Israeli soldier had fired into the air three times before Qdeih was hit in the head by a bullet.

www.maannews.net...

So they warned him, he kept coming, and eventually they shot him. Sorry, that's on the Palestinian.

So the IDF did not like the Palestinians protest, so they called it a riot, fired 3 warning shots then shot the Palestinian in the head. Palestinian life is cheap to the IDF.

Israel does not deserve to be at the table with civilized nations.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Very knowledgable as always and a lot of insight into the history of the conflict including Israels blatant and repeated breaking of ceasefires with refusals to even accept ceasefires on occasion. Also covers the U.S. inolvement and the Western media approach to the years of violence and abuses of power in the West Bank/Gaza.

Well worth a watch

Yes .. let's look at them breaking a ceasefire.

From a pro-Palestinian source.

A relative of the dead man, who was at the scene, told Reuters that Qudaih had been trying to place a Hamas flag on the fence. He added that an Israeli soldier had fired into the air three times before Qdeih was hit in the head by a bullet.

www.maannews.net...

So they warned him, he kept coming, and eventually they shot him. Sorry, that's on the Palestinian.

So the IDF did not like the Palestinians protest, so they called it a riot, fired 3 warning shots then shot the Palestinian in the head. Palestinian life is cheap to the IDF.

Israel does not deserve to be at the table with civilized nations.

No, he was coming to a restricted off/limits area for what purpose they had no idea, he was a suicide bomber/threat for all they knew. They warned him multiple times, he refused to stop. They took action only when he forced them to. Palestinian life is cheap to Palestinians, the IDF valued it which is why they tried to get him to stop by using warning shots, the man didn't care about his life though.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'm not quite sure I understand your point but if you are trying to say that Palestinians are the ones to blame for this mess then I'll just say that in order for a problem to be fixed, the truth first has to be accepted. Yes, there is an aggressor here and for the past 40 years it has been Israel. If you disagree with that, then I strongly advise you to question your history books.

And may I remind, in 2007 fair & democratic elections were held in Palestine and the people voted for Hamas, this didn't go down well with Israel and in turn they ordered more embargoes & illegal settlements.

Sorry, wrong, Palestinians started this a lot longer than 40 years ago, closer to 100 years ago. I just proved to you how your claim of Israel breaking the cease-fires is wrong. The instance I just highlighted was one where people like you claim Israel broke the cease-fire, when the reality is they did not, and it was Palestinian aggression and refusing to stop after warning shots that forced the IDF to act, and the IDF soldiers involved acted perfectly.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'm not quite sure I understand your point but if you are trying to say that Palestinians are the ones to blame for this mess then I'll just say that in order for a problem to be fixed, the truth first has to be accepted. Yes, there is an aggressor here and for the past 40 years it has been Israel. If you disagree with that, then I strongly advise you to question your history books.

And may I remind, in 2007 fair & democratic elections were held in Palestine and the people voted for Hamas, this didn't go down well with Israel and in turn they ordered more embargoes & illegal settlements.

Sorry, wrong, Palestinians started this a lot longer than 40 years ago, closer to 100 years ago. I just proved to you how your claim of Israel breaking the cease-fires is wrong. The instance I just highlighted was one where people like you claim Israel broke the cease-fire, when the reality is they did not, and it was Palestinian aggression and refusing to stop after warning shots that forced the IDF to act, and the IDF soldiers involved acted perfectly.

No.

Belligerent occupation is governed by The Hague Regulations of 1907, as well as by the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and the customary laws of belligerent occupation. Security Council Resolution 1322 (2000), paragraph 3 continued: “Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and its responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in a Time of War of 12 August 1949;...” Again, the Security Council vote was 14 to 0, becoming obligatory international law.

The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are “protected persons” within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.

There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes.

So this is not a symmetrical situation. As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes. Conversely, the Palestinian People are defending themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian

This isn't a hundred years ago, this is now

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Why is it about now all of a sudden? You said it was 40 years ago. What about 80 years ago when the Palestinians became violent in response to Jewish immigration?

Saying Jews started this is like saying the soldier who fired 3 warning shots before being forced to defend himself broke the cease-fire. Keep re-writing history.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sorry but do you this sort of stuff on purpose in order to derail peoples thread or do you genuinely just have no clue about what's going on in the world?

originally posted by: deckdel
a reply to: Zcustosmorum


When walking a narrow path, its always good to look forward. Today, most of the nations in UN have acknowledged Palestine as a state, and now amongst European Union has Sweden taken the first major step and strongly moving to get Palestine acknowledged even in that club of nations.

So, the next question is not perhaps the history, which we know is bloody and unfair, but how to build a Future, and get the Palestine to become a sustainable nation amongst nations. Giving less reason for Israel to monger and provocate.

Very well said, if I was a mod I'd applaud you. However, one needn't look further than Libya to see that if a stable nationstate isn't mutually beneficial than there is no future for the would be nationstate. I sure can hope.

Also, wanted to add that I think Noam Chomsky is always worth listening to and has written some very good books highly critical of state sponsored terrorism, aka USA.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sorry but do you this sort of stuff on purpose in order to derail peoples thread or do you genuinely just have no clue about what's going on in the world?

From the OP

Israels blatant and repeated breaking of ceasefires

How is my addressing a statement made in the OP a thread derailment exactly? Oh that's right, it's not, you just hate I corrected the false statement made from hatred in the OP. Sorry, truth hurts.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Very knowledgable as always and a lot of insight into the history of the conflict including Israels blatant and repeated breaking of ceasefires with refusals to even accept ceasefires on occasion. Also covers the U.S. inolvement and the Western media approach to the years of violence and abuses of power in the West Bank/Gaza.

Well worth a watch

Yes .. let's look at them breaking a ceasefire.

From a pro-Palestinian source.

A relative of the dead man, who was at the scene, told Reuters that Qudaih had been trying to place a Hamas flag on the fence. He added that an Israeli soldier had fired into the air three times before Qdeih was hit in the head by a bullet.

www.maannews.net...

So they warned him, he kept coming, and eventually they shot him. Sorry, that's on the Palestinian.

So the IDF did not like the Palestinians protest, so they called it a riot, fired 3 warning shots then shot the Palestinian in the head. Palestinian life is cheap to the IDF.

Israel does not deserve to be at the table with civilized nations.

No, he was coming to a restricted off/limits area for what purpose they had no idea, he was a suicide bomber/threat for all they knew. They warned him multiple times, he refused to stop. They took action only when he forced them to. Palestinian life is cheap to Palestinians, the IDF valued it which is why they tried to get him to stop by using warning shots, the man didn't care about his life though.

He was still on the other side of the fence though. Nothing in the article suggested that the Palestinian man was trying to breach the prison fence, only hang a Palestinian flag from it.

The "IDF described" the men as rioters as to justify the shooting yet there is nothing to suggest it was more than a protest.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So they warned him, he kept coming, and eventually they shot him. Sorry, that's on the Palestinian.

Seeing how the fence is on Palestinian land it is on the Israeli's because they were not supposed to be there. Israeli supporters need to recognize that the land Israel is building fences on is stolen so the Palestinians have the right to hang whatever they want on the fences because it is their land.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What about 80 years ago when the Palestinians became violent in response to Jewish immigration?

Would this be the Jewish immigration that led to the ethnic cleansing led by the terrorist that became the government of Israel? Ethnic cleansing so bad that a UN observer reported it was the most barbaric act they had ever seen.

Saying Jews started this is like saying the soldier who fired 3 warning shots before being forced to defend himself broke the cease-fire.

He had to defend himself from a person that was on the other side of a fence a person that was only carrying a flag and no weapons? What a coward no wonder the IDF wears diapers.

Keep re-writing history.

Yes people are trying to rewrite history only this time they want the truth to be written.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Why is it about now all of a sudden? You said it was 40 years ago. What about 80 years ago when the Palestinians became violent in response to Jewish immigration?

Saying Jews started this is like saying the soldier who fired 3 warning shots before being forced to defend himself broke the cease-fire. Keep re-writing history.

We live by the laws of today and the laws that apply to the West Bank /Gaza were formed in 1947, I said 40 years because that's when Israel first started to break those laws, it was a rough estimate and it's probably actually been longer than that.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Why is it about now all of a sudden? You said it was 40 years ago. What about 80 years ago when the Palestinians became violent in response to Jewish immigration?

Saying Jews started this is like saying the soldier who fired 3 warning shots before being forced to defend himself broke the cease-fire. Keep re-writing history.

We live by the laws of today and the laws that apply to the West Bank /Gaza were formed in 1947, I said 40 years because that's when Israel first started to break those laws, it was a rough estimate and it's probably actually been longer than that.

Oh you mean when Israel accepted the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine which would have created a Palestinian state, and the Palestinians and other Arabs REJECTED IT and instead opted for war to eradicate the nation of Israel? Hilarious.

Again, Israel accepted Palestine, Palestine REJECTED Israel and invaded to eradicate it. Stop trying to re-write history. Palestinians and their Arab Allies are the ones who broke the law. FACT.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Why is it about now all of a sudden? You said it was 40 years ago. What about 80 years ago when the Palestinians became violent in response to Jewish immigration?

Saying Jews started this is like saying the soldier who fired 3 warning shots before being forced to defend himself broke the cease-fire. Keep re-writing history.

We live by the laws of today and the laws that apply to the West Bank /Gaza were formed in 1947, I said 40 years because that's when Israel first started to break those laws, it was a rough estimate and it's probably actually been longer than that.

Oh you mean when Israel accepted the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine which would have created a Palestinian state, and the Palestinians and other Arabs REJECTED IT and instead opted for war to eradicate the nation of Israel? Hilarious.

Again, Israel accepted Palestine, Palestine REJECTED Israel and invaded to eradicate it. Stop trying to re-write history. Palestinians and their Arab Allies are the ones who broke the law. FACT.

It was actually rejected due to International Law terms under the UN Charter

And don't for one minute try and convince me that Palestine could ever eradicate Israel, judging by the last campaign I'd say the opposite was true.

It is both hilarious and unsettling to see how easily a thread gets de-railed (whether purposefully or otherwise). The OP was pointing out a speech made by a very erudite scholar of US foreign policy--possibly the best around. The thread was not intended to be whittled down to a farcical debate on the Israel/Palestinian debacle by people not smart enough to see the forest from the trees.

You watch the speech. You listen to Mister Chomsky. Then you come back and tell the community what you thought about it.

No more office chair diplomats. Please.

originally posted by: Milleresque
It is both hilarious and unsettling to see how easily a thread gets de-railed (whether purposefully or otherwise). The OP was pointing out a speech made by a very erudite scholar of US foreign policy--possibly the best around. The thread was not intended to be whittled down to a farcical debate on the Israel/Palestinian debacle by people not smart enough to see the forest from the trees.

You watch the speech. You listen to Mister Chomsky. Then you come back and tell the community what you thought about it.

No more office chair diplomats. Please.

Well said and I must apologize also for allowing myself to get caught in the derailment