Nephews Who Are Army Officers Recently Asked "Are You Prepared To Kill US Citizens?"

a reply to: TDawgRex

It does seem to come up in conversations but I've never heard it formally asked. I am initiating a formal investigation into the facts and circumstances surrounding the alleged question.

In any event, thanks for the reply.

a reply to: Feltrick

What kind of formal investigation? As in asking people on ATS or asking the nephews in question?

a reply to: sputniksteve

Just a little PIO humor. I don't have any UCMJ authority over the nephews so asking ATS members will do. If the question has been asked I'd like to hear about from the person asked...or the person asking if possible.

a reply to: Feltrick

Ah I see. Went right over my head

a reply to: Answer

Quoted for posterity.

Helicopter pilots do not give orders to fire on anyone.

Not entirely true.

The firing authority aboard my Hawk comes from the PC, myself second.

a reply to: Feltrick

I am currently in active duty.

No one is being asked this seriously.

We've had conversations among soldiers.

Never has this question been asked by higher.

a reply to: Feltrick

a reply to: ripcontrol

Well..

I was not popular..


I was about two shots of jacks from the Marine Corps on my last day

It was in training but not during
Promotion
or with officers

Officer involvement later on but more, duh you dumb ass the Seaman is right

We both know the officers and senior enlisted use varying methods to gauge the real feelings of troops and reliability for promotion

In this case I am not sure
I lay my money more on the officers opinion of him

It did cost him first class if I remember correctly

So in conclusion
during training
Officialness ????


GF said she was asked the Same thing in USMC

a reply to: projectvxn

Maybe it's only certain MOS'/ratings or ranks being asked. Again, I have never heard this question asked in a formal setting. I just can't find the facts to back this one up.

Thanks for responding!

a reply to: ripcontrol

I believe you were asked during a use of force type training and believe both the instructor and CMD backed up your answer. I believe the question was appropriate given the context and setting; further think your answer was spot on!

I would be interested in knowing the circumstances surrounding your GF being asked. As long as she's not a space Marine, that is!

Thanks for responding!

Actually, multiple U.S. Departments and Agencies use (or once used) lie detectors:

www.schneier.com...
(2006) SURREPTITIOUS LIE DETECTOR BEING DEVELOPED
"THE US Department of Defense has revealed plans to develop a lie detector that can be used without the subject knowing they are being assessed. The Remote Personnel Assessment (RPA) device will also be used to pinpoint fighters hiding in a combat zone, or even to spot signs of stress that might mark someone out as a terrorist or suicide bomber."

www.albany.edu...
(2003) U.S. CUTS USE OF LIE DETECTORS ON JOB-HUNTING RESEARCHERS

antipolygraph.org...
(2008) U.S. MILITARY TO DEPLOY HAND-HELD LIE DETECTORS

antipolygraph.org...
"ANTIPOLYGRAPH.ORG" FOIA DOCS ON GOVERNMENT'S INVOLVEMENT WITH LIE DETECTORS

www.securitymanagement.com...
(2012) DOD CLAIMS THAT RANDOM LIE DETECTOR TESTS INCREASE PERSONNEL SECURITY

a reply to: Feltrick

Here is some background on the controversial question about asking our U.S. military to fire on American civilians:

www.knology.net...
CONTROVERSIAL COMBAT ARMS SURVEY
"The RESISTER has confirmed that US Navy SEAL platoons, including SEAL Team Six, Marine combat veterans stationed at Twenty-Nine Palms, CA, and Marine basic trainees at Camp Pendelton, CA, have been administered a questionnaire asking, among other things, if they would "...fire upon US citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the US government."

"The questionnaire was first administered to operators by the commanders of SEAL Team Six on 15 September 1993, then subsequently to the remaining SEAL platoons throughout September and October. Rumors began circulating in November that US Army DELTA operators were given the same or similar questionnaire."

www.abovetopsecret.com...
ATS THREAD: "HECK'S GOIN ON!! ALL MISSING ..."
(From OP "These kinds of troop movements are exactly what I predicted years ago when I saw the first 29 Palms questionnaire asking US troops if they would fire on American civilians during a military event/martial law."

thelastgreatstand.com...
THE PSYCHOLOGICAL REASONS WHY AMERICAN SOLDIERS WOULD FIRE ON AMERICAN CITIZENS

www.reddit.com...
REDDIT MILITARY FORUM: HOW DO YOU REFUSE A CRUEL/ILLEGAL REQUEST FROM A HIGHER-UP?

(NOTE: So this scary and illegal question first surfaced in 1993, out of the 29 Palms Marine Base in the California desert. The question then seemed related to Gun Confiscation, and/or surrendering U.S. troops to United Nations control. It's obvious why Team Obama would resurrect this now, in their drive toward fascism/martial law.)

Soldier firing on citizens has happened before in Kent, could happen again..matter of context.

a reply to: MKMoniker

So, you're posting a questionnaire given over 20 years ago? This has no relevance. Most, in not all, who took this test are either separated or retired. Besides, the report reads like those wacky emails that we used to get. The basis for this is a "Chilling Message" by a "W. Kelly" lifted from the internet! No other corroboration than the mysterious W. Kelly from Team Six. Oops, there is the anonymous letter from a Marine at 29 Palms!

I get it, Marines and Naval Personnel were given a questionnaire from a Navy CDR working on his Master's Degree. There is no mention on the actual number of personnel given this questionnaire nor has anything surfaced after that...again, 20 years ago!

This investigation, if it is to succeed, must deal with first person accounts. If this is a true conspiracy there must be at least one prior service member on ATS that has been asked this question in a formal setting that impacted assignment, command and/or promotion/advancement. Those, in my opinion, are the key elements to finding out if this story is true.

One member was asked, in a training environment, if he would and he laid out the scenario AND gave us his answer AND told us what his superiors said. His account appears truthful and his superiors backed up his answer. Seems they would not order troops to fire on civilians unless they were being attacked. Everyone has the right to defend themselves.

I just don't think there is any veracity to the story but you just never know. Maybe there is some shadow organization within the military promoting and advancing members who would willingly fire on civilians and take their guns. But, there could also be a Soviet Armor Division hiding in the salt mines underneath Detroit!

a reply to: bludragin


I love the Military (not for same reasons all you people do, be assured of that I have always been in awe of great empires throughout history and what they do to accomplish their period of dominance)

However, a job is a job!! Simple

a reply to: vonclod

If I am not mistaken that was the National Guard. In my understanding they are the only armed service that has any authority to police on U.S. soil. This is based only on my understanding and could be completely wrong I will readily admit. It doesn't negate your point it is just clarification and I guess up for correction from someone that is more knowledgeable than I am.

To Feltrick and vonclod:

"So, you're posting a questionnaire given over 20 years ago? This has no relevance."

Oh really? It proves that the U.S. military HAS asked the controversial question, "Would you fire on U.S. citizens?", before. And if it was asked in a "training environment," (especially in highly-prized Spec Ops training), the trainees would have added pressure to tell the person asking the question whatever answer would aid their training and protect or enhance their eventual Spec Ops career.

AND it was asked in the last Democratic Administration of Bill Clinton. And his wife wants to be the next Democratic President. I'd say that is quite relevant, and should make people even more leery of electing Killary.

I have also researched that mysterious .50 caliber machine gun fire from Mexico across the Rio Grande a few months ago. Everyone "assumed" it was Mexican Drug Cartels scaring off border patrol, so their Cartel gang members could rush across the Rio Grande mixed in with all the kids and others. Yet on fbo.gov, I found out that our military branches started submitting requests for .50 caliber bullets and machine gun spare parts several months before this incident! Add in that Army Depot Fort Letterkenny (in Pennsylvania) continues to recruit "INDIRECT FIRE infantry," and is specifically asking for National Guardsmen.

So now we have a parallel track Army infantry, who fights/kills "indirectly", pushing buttons or pulling trigger-cords from a distance. Is THIS Team Obama's answer to infantry soldiers who hesitate to "fire on American citizens"? Especially after Team Obama has taken great pains to redefine "domestic terrorist?" Team Obama is suddenly less interested in Jihadists than "patriots" and "extremists" - like GOP Conservatives and Survivalists!

So it's the same question being asked in a morphing-fascist landscape dominated by Team Obama. I'd say finding the original source of this troublesome question - in the last Democratic Administration - is VERY relevant.

a reply to: MKMoniker

And yet there are no first hand accounts of this question formally being asked or affecting promotion, advancement or position. Maybe the questionnaire is what it is...a CDR's masters degree.

I find it very odd that the military would buy .50 cal ammo and spare parts. I mean, what use would the military have with that, right?

Army Depot Fort Letterkenny does look pretty scary: www.letterkenny.army.mil/capabilities.html

We should be extremely frightened of their "special Projects" section under their "machining and Fabrication" Div!

There's a lot of conjecture in your post but no facts that this question is being asked in a formal setting. Or that the answers given are being used for assignment and promotion/advancement. I guess I could make the assumption that soldiers who get asked and say no are being killed; that's why there are no first hand accounts.

Facts and eyewitness accounts are needed to verify this rumor. Again, if true, this would be very dangerous indeed, but there is nothing backing up the story.

I do wish to address this partially

a questionnaire twenty years ago is relevant

It means the Senior NCO's and officers all passed the check

The would promote and bring along like minded individuals
Meaning the deck would be stacked

Tactically it means they would have made a list of potential future leaders in the military and the question may have been used to weed out less desirable to them, elements

It is highly relevant due to the power plays in commands

a reply to: ripcontrol

But where are the first hand accounts of this question being asked? There are two sources for this questionnaire: PO2 W. Kelly and an anonymous Marine from 29 Palms. No one else has come forward. Either they didn't feel it was that important or they were all placed in positions of power to bring along other like-minded individuals.

If this story is true, there must be at least one person on this board who was asked and had their career affected by their answer to the question, "Would you order your subordinates to kill unarmed civilians." Did someone's answer to this question by their CO impact their OER/Eval?

I get it, there was a questionnaire that asked a question but have their been subsequent questionnaires? Is there a first hand account of a military member taking a similar questionnaire in the past 10 years? Seems when this comes up it always starts out as, "I heard from X who has a X in the military.." 2nd and 3rd hand accounts cannot be relevant.

Perhaps they were seeing if they would prefer positions in the National Guard? The Guard has a history of pulling a trigger on unarmed us civilians.