Here's What Happened When One City Gave Homeless People Shelter Instead of Throwing Them in Jail

originally posted by: 1FreeThinker
What a GREAT idea! All too often, people tend to look the other way, however justifiable it MAY be in some cases. Instead of doing the same foolish things from the past that DIDN'T work then, SLC has done some seriously good stuff here. My x-files hat is off to them and to you for a great post! a reply to: FyreByrd

As far as home care and social worker visits, it's already being done and has been done for a long time and often doesn't work to keep them housed long-term nor does it prevent them from disrupting the lives of their neighbors until they're evicted. Sometimes things that sound good don't work when put into practice.

I applaud SLC for attempting to do something but we still don't know if it works long term for a significant category of the homeless.

I find it interesting that so many people believe that this is a new approach to homelessness and poverty. I grew up in San Francisco in the 1950s and 1960s. There was a problem way back then of poverty. The solution was to provide housing and food for the poor.

The problem is that the poor grew to expect these freebies and made little effort to better themselves.

a reply to: Tangerine

Like I said, media generated hype. You ever been there? Walk a mile in their shoes. I don't mean the ones that ride the shelter and welfare gravy train, I mean the hard working free spirits that haven't asked and don't need anyones help.

You can find them down at your local recycle center. They come in there all the time with their hard earned bounty of cans. Some walk, some have bikes and trailers or shopping carts.

They think society are the ones that need help.

I happen to agree with them.

Further: people get something stolen and right away they think the local "homeless guy'" did it. it was probably their punk ass kids or local gangsters."Homeless" don't need to steal to support themselves. They live tenuous at best and don't need the heat.

The local heroin addicts might be a better place to look. They mix with the rest of the people, they are fewer in number and they have to steal to support their habit.

People should quit blaming the homeless for every little thing. Like the thread premise suggests, just leave them be. Dig deep once in a while and give one you meet a couple dollars. You won;t "cure' them I know, but may just make that day a little easier. Or give them a wool hat, a folding poncho or pair of wool gloves, a flashlight, whatever.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: FyreByrd

I've asked one person on this site who said she'd been homeless what should be done about the existing homeless who are mentally ill/addicted and she didn't respond. Now I'll ask the same question to anyone on this list who has been homeless. Yes, I know that preventing people from becoming homeless is the ideal solution but I'm asking about those who are already homeless. The problem seems to be that the mentally ill and serious addicts can't function well enough to avoid being evicted. Solutions?

There are many I can imagine. Home health care, social worker visits, etc. However all possible solutions to these specific (mental health and/or addiction) required skilled care by a paid case worker with the time and resources to do the job and in this 'era of austerity', I have trouble imagining the poliitical will being available to anything other then endless war and killing.

Helping the mentally ill and addicted outside of jails and prisions, even with personalized human care, would still be less expensive and of benefit to the community in the long term.

Just because you cannot imagine solutions doesn't mean that solutions don't exist And requiring a solution to be perfect isn't necessary. Both these persistant 'thought forms' are unproductive to individuals and groups.

In the US there is a terrible lack of imagination and experimentation in the social welfare domain because of narrow and close minded thinking. We, in the US, encouage creativity in the areas of killing and destroying life but not promoting health and well-being of people and the bioshpere. If we look to nature as a guide (and we don't) only half of her energy is put into dissolution and decay the other is put into growth and abundance.

We need to start emulating the contructive forces of nature instead of the distructive ones and that begins with the way we think and act.

I agree with much that you say (except the part about my not being able to imagine solutions -- I simply asked others for their suggestions). The problem is not limited to the mentally ill/addicts themselves but also to the people their behavior impacts. Placing them in apartments among the general population may be great for them but is very unpleasant for their neighbors. Adult family homes or facilities where specialized care is on-site might be a better solution. Of course, the problem then becomes getting them to voluntarily live there. Where do we draw the line between their rights and the rights of others in the community? Do law enforcement agencies and other agencies have the right to force them to live somewhere? Should they have the right to force them?

This is getting far off topic. These situation that you describe are not problems that have not been solved in the past. Each and every case is different - hence the need for individualized care by well trained people with time and resources to find workable solutions for each case.

There are always errors and missteps on the way.

The facts we are looking at here are the results that Salt Lake City has had and they are very impressive. Are the numbers massaged to look good - propabably but the point still stands - Prevention is cheaper and easier then irradication of entrenched problems or disease.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Tangerine

Like I said, media generated hype. You ever been there? Walk a mile in their shoes. I don't mean the ones that ride the shelter and welfare gravy train, I mean the hard working free spirits that haven't asked and don't need anyones help.

You can find them down at your local recycle center. They come in there all the time with their hard earned bounty of cans. Some walk, some have bikes and trailers or shopping carts.

They think society are the ones that need help.

I happen to agree with them.

Further: people get something stolen and right away they think the local "homeless guy'" did it. it was probably their punk ass kids or local gangsters."Homeless" don't need to steal to support themselves. They live tenuous at best and don't need the heat.

The local heroin addicts might be a better place to look. They mix with the rest of the people, they are fewer in number and they have to steal to support their habit.

People should quit blaming the homeless for every little thing. Like the thread premise suggests, just leave them be. Dig deep once in a while and give one you meet a couple dollars. You won;t "cure' them I know, but may just make that day a little easier. Or give them a wool hat, a folding poncho or pair of wool gloves, a flashlight, whatever.

I believe I mentioned in one of my posts that people who choose to live off the grid should be allowed to do so. We are not in disagreement about that. I don't know how many times I've said I'm talking about the problem of the mentally ill/addicted homeless who cause untold problems for others by accosting them physically and verbally and making it generally unsafe to move about in public places. What would you want done if you were a small Mom and Pop store owner whose misfortune it is to be located where drunks, addicts, and the ranting mentally ill have decided to camp, urinate, defecate and drive away your business? What would you want done if you needed to use public transportation that some of these people use as daytime mobile housing and you were afraid to wait for a bus? I'm not talking about people who simply think they're too good to sit next to a homeless person. They're jerks. I'm talking about people who have been accosted at bus stops or on the bus or have witnessed it happening to others.

I live in a progressive community where there are many services provided to the homeless. I've encountered the homeless (Some of the encounters were OK and a number of the encounters were not pleasant). I've made a point of finding out about the homeless situation here and what is being done to help them. Every fall when the shelters open, more homeless, as well as the perennial homeless "residents", arrive in town. Like clockwork, the grocery stores experience an increase in thefts. Coincidental? probably not. Thefts of personal property on buses goes up. Coincidental? Probably not.

Some of the homeless are moved into public housing where a significant percentage of them cause huge problems for the other residents. I helped a homeless man find housing. I got applications and helped him fill them out. He moved into a building and has caused untold problems for the other tenants. I've talked with people living in his building and in other public housing buildings. The same story is repeated over and over.

I have talked to homeless people who have stayed in shelters but left because they say it's too dangerous because of the mentally ill/addicts staying there. I've talked to people who have volunteered in the shelters.

It's not satisfactory to simply say, "Let them go about their business" except for those who truly don't cause problems for others. Most people are oblivious to those who simply choose to live off the grid. For the umpteenth time, I'm talking about those who cause significant problems for others and have such significant problems they can't benefit from current programs designed to help them.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
That's all fine and good that they're saving money by helping people with housing so they can get off of the street and maybe get a job since one cannot get one without a verifiable address in most cases.

My questions are :
1- What are the authorities doing with the money they no longer are spending on incarceration and the like?.
No telling what they'll do, probably buy some tanks and armored cars for the police....

2-Considering they are spending less on the issue we are discussing here, will they demand less taxes in the future?.
Not at all likely, more likely they will steer the funds into another waste of taxpayer dollars to avoid that.

3-Considering they are not spending so much of the money they collect through taxation, are they just going to give
themselves a big fat "Pat themselves on the back for being nicey nice raise?.
Most likely the use they will make of those saved funds.

There is almost always something going on in the shadows in politics that negates any real benefit to anyone but those in power. Like just imagine how many people would be out of a job if they actually cured cancer instead of treating it.

They like to make it appear they are making things better, but they can't with the current system of business and banking.

Let us know when you find answers to your questions. Tell us the shadows in SLC politics that are benefiting from this successful program.

Personally I think the power elite prefer incarceration - makes more money for big business. But I can only call it like I see it and I like to think that underneath all the fear, people are basically good.

originally posted by: signalfire
Has any thought been given to what they're gonna do when another million homeless find out about this and show up?

I've heard rumors about the Malibu police, that they pick their homeless off the streets and dump them in Santa Cruz, which is more 'helpful' to the homeless... of course, SC is loaded with the homeless now.

Well, let's see. Maybe we can find a means to keep those 'another million' people from becoming homeless. Maybe create jobs with living wages - people oriented jobs - service jobs helping the homeless and other underserved citizens.

Have any ideas to share?? We've got a good thread going here, help us out. Please.

Creative imagination not distructive imagination.

Most if not all cities offer the homeless some kind of shelter and rare are the ones that arrest them for simply being homeless, if there are any at all because it's probably unconstitutional or something. In some major cities the problem is convincing the homeless to take the shelter being offered, because they are unwilling to give up certain addictions.

It's wonderful to help the needy, but private charities should do it, not governments.

a reply to: lindalinda

This in not an accurate observation.

The fact is there are more empty houses/apartments than homeless in the US. Those who do not want shelter are the exception not the rule. I can tell you that certain cities will find reasons to arrest the homeless, at least where I am at in Florida. Some of the homeless will even say that cities like New York will buy their homeless a one way ticket to Florida. We can certainly do more to help those who can't seem to the help themselves and have the capability to do so.

Promoting the General Welfare is part of the US Constitution.

What does that say about our society that refuses to lend a helping hand to those who need it the most?

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: lindalinda

This in not an accurate observation.

The fact is there are more empty houses/apartments than homeless in the US. Those who do not want shelter are the exception not the rule. I can tell you that certain cities will find reasons to arrest the homeless, at least where I am at in Florida. Some of the homeless will even say that cities like New York will buy their homeless a one way ticket to Florida. We can certainly do more to help those who can't seem to the help themselves and have the capability to do so.

Promoting the General Welfare is part of the US Constitution.

What does that say about our society that refuses to lend a helping hand to those who need it the most?

What EFFECTIVE "helping hand" do you propose that we give to the mentally ill/addicted homeless who refuse to take advantage of programs already offered to them or take advantage of them and then go right back to the street?

a reply to: Tangerine

This is not everywhere in the US. Only a handful of places actually have a system in place to give the homeless shelter, I am not aware of these 'programs', unless you mean the jail/prison/rehab system that does not work. Salt Lake City's project with the homeless seems like a much better option than the rest of 'merika's approach to the homeless problem.

Not all homeless need to be rehabilitated, just given a chance.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Tangerine

This is not everywhere in the US. Only a handful of places actually have a system in place to give the homeless shelter, I am not aware of these 'programs', unless you mean the jail/prison/rehab system that does not work. Salt Lake City's project with the homeless seems like a much better option than the rest of 'merika's approach to the homeless problem.

Not all homeless need to be rehabilitated, just given a chance.

If you had read this entire thread, you would know that I have repeatedly stated that the percentage of homeless people who are simply down on their luck benefit from a helping hand. Providing them with housing works. I also stated that my interest was in discussing the approximately 75% of homeless (based on various studies) who are mentally ill/addicts. You're right about jail, prison, rehab programs and all the other existing programs not working for most of them. Giving them mainstream housing also doesn't work. Their behavior gets them evicted and they end up homeless again.

So what's your suggestion for dealing with this particular segment of the homeless population?

originally posted by: ArchPlayer
I am no fan of Salt Lake City. Their arrogance towards their religion and their blatant racism irritates the hell out of me.
However, they have figured out something right (even though being a predominately white state with white homelessness moreso than their western neighbors of California, you wonder if this is why they decided to try it in the first place).

Considering that the only industry they have there is Mormon and the Utah Jazz, this is a great thing. That is, until homeless everywhere hear about it and flock there and they alter the program. Until then, kudos.

Have you ever been to SLC? Before I moved here I really had the impression that this place was Mormanville for obvious reasons.

The first thing that struck me when I first moved here, besides their funky grid system, was the diversity. The huge number of ethnic shops and the fact that it felt like whites were the minority. The Mormon presence in the area is only slightly more noticeable than than the presence of any other belief system in the area. The presence of Islam seems to be much stronger in the area.

Being born, raised and a California citizen most of my life, I would say just from my observations in the few months I have been here is that California has a higher percentage of white homelessness.

a reply to: Tangerine

I believe I mentioned in one of my posts that people who choose to live off the grid should be allowed to do so. We are not in disagreement about that.

Yah, as long as you don't see or smell them, right?

I don't know how many times I've said I'm talking about the problem of the mentally ill/addicted homeless who cause untold problems for others by accosting them physically and verbally and making it generally unsafe to move about in public places.

There aren't that many homeless to be accosting the "General public". Once again, overblown. Sure some people can't hold a job due to mental make up. I knew a guy who heard others thoughts. He had to stay away from places where lots of others were (like a work environment) because of it. Some homeless are veterans from endless unjust wars. How do you think they feel? Some are traumatized by other segments of society (like walking while black). I've seen police go after blacks in the bushes with dogs, They left me alone because I am white.

I live in a progressive community where there are many services provided to the homeless.

Those services suck. You ever been inside one? "Shelters" are the worst. You have to line up at noon to get in, they charge for a bed and a meal and kick you out at dawn. The facility is a large single room with bunks all placed together. You shower in others filth and sleep guarding your stuff from people that rifle thru it. Its misery.

Most choose to live outdoors in the fresh air instead of caged like rats. I know. Up under a bridge people look out for each other, any bad behavior is checked and problem people are evicted. That "community" polices its own, provides for its own and the cops use to leave them be. That is changing.

Now they have installed razor wire and patrol all night throwing people out into "the public". You see them during the day but don't have to deal with their nightime environment. While you are safe behind walls and locked doors they are being constantly woken up and told to move on, "you can't sleep here". How would you feel if someone did that to you in your bedroom? "Get up. Move out. You can't stay here." EVERY night. And your sensibilities are ruffled because they are "homeless" and ask you for a dollar.

Thats why the problems are increasing. Because they are harried into even more destitution out on the street. There are less facilities and hideaways than ever, and more homeless than ever because of the overall lowered economy and low wages, not because of their "mental problems". And sure, many take to drink or drugs to escape their plight, or soothe the pain of being hopeless and harassed by "civvies" and police.

Like I said. walk a mile in their shoes. You can always spot the homeless, right? They look "dirty" and unkempt. You go live in that environment and see what you look like and smell like after two weeks. I did it for seven years straight. I was able to maintain a truck, a storage shed, recycled scrap metal and attended flea markets. The happiest I ever been.

I worked when I wanted, had no rent or payments above the truck and storage and payed no tax that is used to buy bombs and drop them on foreign lands. There was no workaday schedule or expectation to succeed in the rat race. That is true freedom. Freedom from the system, freedom some are jealous of.

If I want to sleep outdoors with the stars as my roof, go where I want, do my own thing is that a crime? Are they going to take that from me?

If they bother you, walk around them, if they assault you call a cop. If they want a dollar give it to them. You and they will sleep better at night. Other wise, chill the F*** out, they aren't harming anyone. You want a cause rail against the government that bombs the crap out of foreigners with hundred million dollar planes. Protest the government, corporations and banks that are moving overseas, stealing peoples homes and paying slave wages. Protest about the corrupt justice system that makes everything a felony and detains people without due process. Piss about that. But leave the goddamn homeless out of it, they are the victims not the cause of societies problems.

For the "umpteenth time", lol.

a reply to: intrptr

Standing ovation for your post, Intrptr!! WELL SAID!!!

I agree 100% with everything you said!

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Tangerine

This is not everywhere in the US. Only a handful of places actually have a system in place to give the homeless shelter, I am not aware of these 'programs', unless you mean the jail/prison/rehab system that does not work. Salt Lake City's project with the homeless seems like a much better option than the rest of 'merika's approach to the homeless problem.

Not all homeless need to be rehabilitated, just given a chance.

If you had read this entire thread, you would know that I have repeatedly stated that the percentage of homeless people who are simply down on their luck benefit from a helping hand. Providing them with housing works. I also stated that my interest was in discussing the approximately 75% of homeless (based on various studies) who are mentally ill/addicts. You're right about jail, prison, rehab programs and all the other existing programs not working for most of them. Giving them mainstream housing also doesn't work. Their behavior gets them evicted and they end up homeless again.

So what's your suggestion for dealing with this particular segment of the homeless population?

I would like to know the studies that you take your 75% 'factoid' from.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: FyreByrd

I've asked one person on this site who said she'd been homeless what should be done about the existing homeless who are mentally ill/addicted and she didn't respond. Now I'll ask the same question to anyone on this list who has been homeless. Yes, I know that preventing people from becoming homeless is the ideal solution but I'm asking about those who are already homeless. The problem seems to be that the mentally ill and serious addicts can't function well enough to avoid being evicted. Solutions?

There are many I can imagine. Home health care, social worker visits, etc. However all possible solutions to these specific (mental health and/or addiction) required skilled care by a paid case worker with the time and resources to do the job and in this 'era of austerity', I have trouble imagining the poliitical will being available to anything other then endless war and killing.

Helping the mentally ill and addicted outside of jails and prisions, even with personalized human care, would still be less expensive and of benefit to the community in the long term.

Just because you cannot imagine solutions doesn't mean that solutions don't exist And requiring a solution to be perfect isn't necessary. Both these persistant 'thought forms' are unproductive to individuals and groups.

In the US there is a terrible lack of imagination and experimentation in the social welfare domain because of narrow and close minded thinking. We, in the US, encouage creativity in the areas of killing and destroying life but not promoting health and well-being of people and the bioshpere. If we look to nature as a guide (and we don't) only half of her energy is put into dissolution and decay the other is put into growth and abundance.

We need to start emulating the contructive forces of nature instead of the distructive ones and that begins with the way we think and act.

I agree with much that you say (except the part about my not being able to imagine solutions -- I simply asked others for their suggestions). The problem is not limited to the mentally ill/addicts themselves but also to the people their behavior impacts. Placing them in apartments among the general population may be great for them but is very unpleasant for their neighbors. Adult family homes or facilities where specialized care is on-site might be a better solution. Of course, the problem then becomes getting them to voluntarily live there. Where do we draw the line between their rights and the rights of others in the community? Do law enforcement agencies and other agencies have the right to force them to live somewhere? Should they have the right to force them?

This is getting far off topic. These situation that you describe are not problems that have not been solved in the past. Each and every case is different - hence the need for individualized care by well trained people with time and resources to find workable solutions for each case.

There are always errors and missteps on the way.

The facts we are looking at here are the results that Salt Lake City has had and they are very impressive. Are the numbers massaged to look good - propabably but the point still stands - Prevention is cheaper and easier then irradication of entrenched problems or disease.

So, to sum up, you are unable to respond to my question with workable solutions apart from meaningless aphorisms about helping people in unspecified ways or prior to the situation in which they find themselves in reality.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: FyreByrd

I've asked one person on this site who said she'd been homeless what should be done about the existing homeless who are mentally ill/addicted and she didn't respond. Now I'll ask the same question to anyone on this list who has been homeless. Yes, I know that preventing people from becoming homeless is the ideal solution but I'm asking about those who are already homeless. The problem seems to be that the mentally ill and serious addicts can't function well enough to avoid being evicted. Solutions?

I have given you several 'workable' solutions - but non of them meet with your 'standards'.

I tend to have a great deal of patience with

There are many I can imagine. Home health care, social worker visits, etc. However all possible solutions to these specific (mental health and/or addiction) required skilled care by a paid case worker with the time and resources to do the job and in this 'era of austerity', I have trouble imagining the poliitical will being available to anything other then endless war and killing.

Helping the mentally ill and addicted outside of jails and prisions, even with personalized human care, would still be less expensive and of benefit to the community in the long term.

Just because you cannot imagine solutions doesn't mean that solutions don't exist And requiring a solution to be perfect isn't necessary. Both these persistant 'thought forms' are unproductive to individuals and groups.

In the US there is a terrible lack of imagination and experimentation in the social welfare domain because of narrow and close minded thinking. We, in the US, encouage creativity in the areas of killing and destroying life but not promoting health and well-being of people and the bioshpere. If we look to nature as a guide (and we don't) only half of her energy is put into dissolution and decay the other is put into growth and abundance.

We need to start emulating the contructive forces of nature instead of the distructive ones and that begins with the way we think and act.

I agree with much that you say (except the part about my not being able to imagine solutions -- I simply asked others for their suggestions). The problem is not limited to the mentally ill/addicts themselves but also to the people their behavior impacts. Placing them in apartments among the general population may be great for them but is very unpleasant for their neighbors. Adult family homes or facilities where specialized care is on-site might be a better solution. Of course, the problem then becomes getting them to voluntarily live there. Where do we draw the line between their rights and the rights of others in the community? Do law enforcement agencies and other agencies have the right to force them to live somewhere? Should they have the right to force them?

This is getting far off topic. These situation that you describe are not problems that have not been solved in the past. Each and every case is different - hence the need for individualized care by well trained people with time and resources to find workable solutions for each case.

There are always errors and missteps on the way.

The facts we are looking at here are the results that Salt Lake City has had and they are very impressive. Are the numbers massaged to look good - propabably but the point still stands - Prevention is cheaper and easier then irradication of entrenched problems or disease.

So, to sum up, you are unable to respond to my question with workable solutions apart from meaningless aphorisms about helping people in unspecified ways or prior to the situation in which they find themselves in reality.

I have given several workable solutions to your oppositional questions that bear little relevance to the material. I tend to patience with new people and as you seem to want attention (part of the oppositional mind-set), I will no longer provide it.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Tangerine

I believe I mentioned in one of my posts that people who choose to live off the grid should be allowed to do so. We are not in disagreement about that.

Yah, as long as you don't see or smell them, right?

I don't know how many times I've said I'm talking about the problem of the mentally ill/addicted homeless who cause untold problems for others by accosting them physically and verbally and making it generally unsafe to move about in public places.

There aren't that many homeless to be accosting the "General public". Once again, overblown. Sure some people can't hold a job due to mental make up. I knew a guy who heard others thoughts. He had to stay away from places where lots of others were (like a work environment) because of it. Some homeless are veterans from endless unjust wars. How do you think they feel? Some are traumatized by other segments of society (like walking while black). I've seen police go after blacks in the bushes with dogs, They left me alone because I am white.

I live in a progressive community where there are many services provided to the homeless.

Those services suck. You ever been inside one? "Shelters" are the worst. You have to line up at noon to get in, they charge for a bed and a meal and kick you out at dawn. The facility is a large single room with bunks all placed together. You shower in others filth and sleep guarding your stuff from people that rifle thru it. Its misery.

Most choose to live outdoors in the fresh air instead of caged like rats. I know. Up under a bridge people look out for each other, any bad behavior is checked and problem people are evicted. That "community" polices its own, provides for its own and the cops use to leave them be. That is changing.

Now they have installed razor wire and patrol all night throwing people out into "the public". You see them during the day but don't have to deal with their nightime environment. While you are safe behind walls and locked doors they are being constantly woken up and told to move on, "you can't sleep here". How would you feel if someone did that to you in your bedroom? "Get up. Move out. You can't stay here." EVERY night. And your sensibilities are ruffled because they are "homeless" and ask you for a dollar.

Thats why the problems are increasing. Because they are harried into even more destitution out on the street. There are less facilities and hideaways than ever, and more homeless than ever because of the overall lowered economy and low wages, not because of their "mental problems". And sure, many take to drink or drugs to escape their plight, or soothe the pain of being hopeless and harassed by "civvies" and police.

Like I said. walk a mile in their shoes. You can always spot the homeless, right? They look "dirty" and unkempt. You go live in that environment and see what you look like and smell like after two weeks. I did it for seven years straight. I was able to maintain a truck, a storage shed, recycled scrap metal and attended flea markets. The happiest I ever been.

I worked when I wanted, had no rent or payments above the truck and storage and payed no tax that is used to buy bombs and drop them on foreign lands. There was no workaday schedule or expectation to succeed in the rat race. That is true freedom. Freedom from the system, freedom some are jealous of.

If I want to sleep outdoors with the stars as my roof, go where I want, do my own thing is that a crime? Are they going to take that from me?

If they bother you, walk around them, if they assault you call a cop. If they want a dollar give it to them. You and they will sleep better at night. Other wise, chill the F*** out, they aren't harming anyone. You want a cause rail against the government that bombs the crap out of foreigners with hundred million dollar planes. Protest the government, corporations and banks that are moving overseas, stealing peoples homes and paying slave wages. Protest about the corrupt justice system that makes everything a felony and detains people without due process. Piss about that. But leave the goddamn homeless out of it, they are the victims not the cause of societies problems.

For the "umpteenth time", lol.

You have intentionally mischaracterized my post and gone on a rant that is not relevant to the questions I raised. You seem to want to believe that everyone holds the homeless in contempt and doesn't care about solving the problem (which you don't see as a problem--except when it suits you-- but simply a lifestyle choice). Have it your way: the next time I see a homeless person lying in his own urine or huddling in a dirty blanket in the cold, I'll think of you, toss them a quarter and walk on by. Now are you happy? Your demonstrated lack of integrity makes it futile to continue this conversation.

a reply to: Tangerine

You have intentionally mischaracterized my post and gone on a rant that is not relevant to the questions I raised. You seem to want to believe that everyone holds the homeless in contempt and doesn't care about solving the problem (which you don't see as a problem--except when it suits you-- but simply a lifestyle choice). Have it your way: the next time I see a homeless person lying in his own urine or huddling in a dirty blanket in the cold, I'll think of you, toss them a quarter and walk on by. Now are you happy? Your demonstrated lack of integrity makes it futile to continue this conversation.

There is a small problem and it will cost you more than a quarter of indifference. Of course thats your indifference, not mine. its okay to help them a little more. How about asking the next one you see?

Instead of pelting them with coins, what is it that you can do to take time personally to help just one? I guarantee it will have the greatest effect. Unless you just 'want something done' or someone else to do it.