What Putin has achieved till now

a reply to: maghun

Lavrov: 400 Bodies Found in Ukraine Mass Graves Are Evidence of War Crime

Good try...but...

Russian state media are abuzz with accusations of murder and gang-rape levelled against government forces in eastern Ukraine by a purported Western monitor.

The charges stem from Einars Graudins, a Latvian political activist who, according to Russian media reports, is part of a team of international monitors dispatched to eastern Ukraine by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

The "OSCE expert" is also widely quoted as claiming that hundreds of bodies have been exhumed from mass graves in the Donetsk region.

The problem is, Graudins has never worked for the OSCE.

"We are currently checking the identity of this person, but as far as I know at this moment he is not a member of the special monitoring mission in Ukraine," OSCE deputy spokesperson Natacha Rajakovic told RFE/RL. "We have no record and we certainly couldn't confirm any such statements."

The OSCE's chapter in Ukraine later confirmed that he has "no link whatsoever" to the OSCE.

www.rferl.org...

Do you ever check out a story more than just looking at Russian state run media?

Russian propaganda seems to be in high gear I see, and your just lapping it up like a puppy aren't you?

Again what other lies are you going to pass off as being true?

Here are some more sources for your lie...

www.bbc.co.uk...

uatoday.tv...

a reply to: maghun

...accurate, unbiased reporting...

You don't understand the question I asked do you?

So here let's try it one more time shall we...

So what exactly did western media have to do with it? Sinking of the Lusitania that is?

Simple easy questions...

a reply to: DJW001

you sure delight

I'm sick of seeing what the so called "western values" have done with Ukraine.

Pussy Riot arrest: worldwide campaign against Russia and Putin, murdering tens of thousands of those who not obeying the junta in Ukraine is nothing.

a reply to: maghun

Pussy Riot arrest: worldwide campaign against Russia and Putin, murdering tens of thousands of those who not obeying the junta in Ukraine is nothing.

Putin tried Pussy Riot in the full glare of publicity because he wanted everyone to know what the consequences of protest in Russia are. As yet, there is no proof of mass killings in Eastern Ukraine. If there is, I hope the perpetrators are tried for crimes against humanity, whichever side they committed them for.

Tell me honestly: if an independent investigation reveals that they were Ukrainian "deserters" killed by separatists or right wing Russian "volunteers," would you demand they be tried as war criminals, or would you excuse them for doing what they "needed to do" to survive?

a reply to: maghun

Pussy Riot arrest: worldwide campaign against Russia and Putin, murdering tens of thousands of those who not obeying the junta in Ukraine is nothing.

Look Ukraine gov't is not a junta...please learn to use that word correctly.

jun·ta noun \ˈhu̇n-tə, ˈjən-, ˈhən-\
: a military group controlling a government after taking control of it by force

www.merriam-webster.com...

And the gov't is a legitimately and democratically elected gov't., that even Putin recognizes.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

OSCE is on the "western" side of the conflict, but they had to mention it...

The SMM on 27 September visited three locations indicated by representatives of the so-called “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”) to be the sites of unmarked graves. Two sites are located near an area known as coal mine Komunar, in the outskirts of Nyzhna Krynka village (35km north-east of Donetsk). The SMM had first visited these two sites on 23 September (see Daily Report 24 September). The third site is located at the entrance of Nyzhna Krynka. The SMM was escorted by two representatives of the so-called “DPR” police throughout its visit to the area

OSCE

a reply to: maghun

They had to mention it because they are objective. It has been nearly a week and the allegations have not yet been confirmed.

Edit to add: You still haven't said what you would say if it turned out the be separatists or Russians who committed "genocide."

a reply to: DJW001

objective

a reply to: maghun

Answer the question.

a reply to: DJW001

War crime is a war crime, no matter who committed it.

However, again and again and again and again............we are ONLY hearing of such acts being committed by Ukrops on civilians, POWs, and even on their own soldiers who deserted or refused to fight or obey illegal criminal orders.

Time is running short for such criminals. Once caught they were find themselves answering to the past and the future.

Kremlin should make official statement that it will chase and hound the war criminals till whatever time or effort it takes. Just like Israel chases the WWII Nazis around the world, over the decades. Russia needs to learn many things from Israel as to how it values its citizens.

a reply to: DJW001

Answer the question.

Stupid question. Who is independent? China?

Russia has opened juridical proceedings against several Ukrainian leaders for genocide on the Russian speaking minority in the country. According to a Dutch lawyer who specialises in international criminal justice the accusations are partly supported by Human Rights Watch but he said they will be difficult to prove.

a reply to: maghun

Stupid question. Who is independent? China?

Evasion. At least Victor had the integrity to admit that a war crime is a war crime. Star for him. nothing for you.

a reply to: DJW001

a war crime is a war crime

Isn't it obvious?

Star for him. nothing for you.

I'm offended...

Putin: All I have to do is smile to show the devil isn't frightening as he appears
2 Oct 2014

a reply to: maghun

That's true, a war crime is a war crime and it has several forms that even happen in the shape of various sanctions etc.

Problem with the western approach is when it suits their interests they will inflate the facts and when needed nearly totally ignore the realities on ground.

Despite constant shelling of civilians in Ukraine by Kiev Junta forces, not one western leader has come out in open to atleast condemn this act. On the otherhand, their media is outright trying to shut down such news or present it with a different tone and angle.

One thing I would not condemn is a war crime in revenge of one committed against one side. About time bombs and shelling should start to fall on Kiev and Lviv to return the favor thrown at the Donbass region.

a reply to: maghun

OSCE is on the "western" side of the conflict, but they had to mention it...

Really, they are on the "western" side of things...can we say grasping at straws?

So I want to touch on something...in an earlier post you posted a link to an article with Mr. Lavrov where he says this...

“This is obviously a war crime. Already more than 400 bodies have been discovered in [mass] graves outside Donetsk and we hope that western capitals will not hush up these facts [because] they’re horrific,” Lavrov said, adding there was an apparent blackout of the incident in Western mass media.

And yet there is no figure as to how many people may be buries there...in fact from your own link to the OSCE we see this...

The SMM on 27 September visited three locations indicated by representatives of the so-called “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”) to be the sites of unmarked graves. Two sites are located near an area known as coal mine Komunar, in the outskirts of Nyzhna Krynka village (35km north-east of Donetsk). The SMM had first visited these two sites on 23 September (see Daily Report 24 September). The third site is located at the entrance of Nyzhna Krynka. The SMM was escorted by two representatives of the so-called “DPR” police throughout its visit to the area.

www.osce.org...

I smell me some good old propaganda being spread...

And let's not forget this little mass grave courtesy of the pro Russian separatists.



But for some reason it gets looked past by the pro Russian crowd...why is that?

a reply to: victor7

Despite constant shelling of civilians in Ukraine by Kiev Junta forces, not one western leader has come out in open to atleast condemn this act.

Okay let's try this again...

So are the Ukrainians shelling any other civilians that do not have separatists there, or are they only shelling the areas where the separatists are at?

Can we please learn the definition of a junta gov't, because it seems many do not know it?

jun·ta noun \ˈhu̇n-tə, ˈjən-, ˈhən-\
: a military group controlling a government after taking control of it by force

www.merriam-webster.com...

jun•ta (ˈhʊn tə, ˈdʒʌn-, ˈhʌn-)

n., pl. -tas.
1. a small group ruling a country, esp. immediately after a coup d'état and before a legally constituted government has been instituted.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

So they weren't overthrown by the military, and they have a legally constituded government...sorry no junta for you.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

But there was a coup :

Ukraine’s Just Coup

Source

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

So are the Ukrainians shelling any other civilians that do not have separatists there, or are they only shelling the areas where the separatists are at?

If there are separatists in certain areas where there are also civilians then there should be no shelling taking place.

These civilians should be given proper alternative shelters to go to in order to avoid getting bombed. Fore warning of such bombing needs to take place and alternative arrangements needs to be provided.

Israel picks a building or house for precision bombing and gives 15-20 minutes warning for people in the area to leave. Then a precision.....not wide ranging artillery or grads.........attack is made and the nearby civilians return to their homes.

Evil Ukes are bombing without warning using imprecise artillery and killing civilians. This is a total war crime.

a reply to: victor7

If there are separatists in certain areas where there are also civilians then there should be no shelling taking place.

When you take up arms against the government...you get shelled. Now if the separatists really cared about the civilian population they would not be hiding behind human shields.

These civilians should be given proper alternative shelters to go to in order to avoid getting bombed. Fore warning of such bombing needs to take place and alternative arrangements needs to be provided.

They try to, but when you are constantly being shot at by separatists you don't always have the time to call the neighborhood the separatists are hiding in to tell them to leave.

Israel picks a building or house for precision bombing and gives 15-20 minutes warning for people in the area to leave. Then a precision.....not wide ranging artillery or grads.........attack is made and the nearby civilians return to their homes.

And we are talking about Ukraine where the military is not as technically advanced as Israel, so you use what you have.

Evil Ukes are bombing without warning using imprecise artillery and killing civilians. This is a total war crime.

And again they do warn the residents, but it's up to them as to whether they leave, and the fact they are only returning fire when fired upon makes it more self defense than a war crime.

And again I ask...Is Ukraine just shelling civilian areas that separatists have left, because you seem to be convinced they are?