Yahweh 2 - Yahweh Contradicts Elohim (Father) in Genesis 5-7 and is Denied by Elohim

a reply to: rebelv

You would likely enjoy all my threads.

a reply to: AlephBet

Isa 14:12 “How you have fallen from the heavens, O Hĕlĕl, son of the morning! You have been cut down to the ground, you who laid low the gentiles!"

Once again you have shown yourself to have n lack of knowledge.

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

Isa 14:12 “How you have fallen from the heavens, O Hĕlĕl, son of the morning! You have been cut down to the ground, you who laid low the gentiles!"

Once again you have shown yourself to have n lack of knowledge.

Or.

Alternate rendering:
«How have you come down from 'the first firmament' (Heb. Shamayim), 'Hillel (Talmud) ben Shahar (same as Zohar)' ? Who have conquered (Gr. Nike) all the nations?» [UUV*] Isaiah 14:12

* "Utnapisjtim's Unauthorised Version"

originally posted by: AlephBet
What is the Hebrew word for Lucifer?

Not a word, but a Jewish name, Hillel ben Shahar.

Generations after Isaiah used the surname ben Shahar, Daniel and Ezekiel would use the word Zohar during the Babylonian exile, and by then it had been given a slightly different lexical definition, leaving behind the direct reference to the Sun in Shahar (Morning or lit. Sunrise or Dawn), into Zohar which means brilliance or radiance. Then again, my etymology here might not fit in with mainstream doctrine, but as far as I know and can see, Zohar is a later cognate of Shahar. You see the same word in the proper noun Sahara and the name of Abraham's wife, Sarah. As a regular noun, Heb. "shahar", is only found in the oldest parts of OT, like Job and Psalms, another clear indication that this is a name, not a regular noun.

a reply to: AlephBet

So many incorrect assumptions made it is difficult to know where to start, I will simply clarify what is true regarding the incorrect name lables applied in the OP

God the Father = Yahweh Elohim

Not Yahweh or Elohim, but Yahweh Elohim; that is the full name of the Creator Father God over all things.

Elohim is God's family name. Like John Smith is a member of the Smith family; Yahweh Elohim is a member of the Elohim (God Family).

At the time of the creation of mankind upon the Earth in Genesis only one member of Elohim existed. Yahweh Elohim, the "self existing one" (translation of Yahweh) of the "God Family/Likeness" (translation of Elohim), the only being to have eternally existed.

His plan and purpose for the creation of mankind was to bring many "sons to glory" to transform, over time, mankind into the spiritual likeness of God through a 7100 year plan.

In Genesis when it was recorded in Hebrew by Moses that God said "Let Elohim create over time mankind in the spiritual likeness of the Family of God (Elohim)". It was Yahweh Elohim who was clearly explaining that the primary focus for Elohim (the God Family) throughout time will be to transform physical mankind into the spiritual image of Himself (Elohim). The word "Elohim" is plural because just like the Smith family could start originally with only John Smith (like Elohim originally consisted of the one member; Yahweh), through time the family can have over 1,000,000 Smiths (like God is planning to bring many sons i.e. Elohim to glory).

When Jesus Christ died and was received unto his Father Yahweh, Jesus Christ became the first of the first fruits of salvation born of mankind, physically (brought to glory, entered Elohim).

Currently there are 2 members of Elohim:

1. Yahweh Elohim (God the Father, the Self-existing one, the Almighty)
2. Jesus Christ Elohim (The first of the first fruits, the Elder brother of all the sons that will be eventually brought to glory by the close of the time of physical mankind's existence; a period that lasts 7100 total).

Soon, at the return of Jesus Christ, 144,000 individual human beings that lived and died during the last 6000 years will be "brought to glory" because the path was made possible by the Passover sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the removal of sins. These human beings include Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Joshua, Caleb, Sampson, David, Solomon, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John etc. They have been dead and in the earth since their last breath was exhaled awaiting the time of their redemption.

After the return of Jesus Christ to take place shortly, there will be 144,002 member of the God Family (Elohim), all who become a part of the family of God will become Elohim, it is the purpose for the entire physical creation and the reason you exist.

After the millennium more will be added to Elohim, and also after the Great White Thrown the final numbers will be added. The purpose for those ages and why they were needed by God cannot be covered in this thread, but it is the plan and purpose for life.

In Genesis, when you read that the sons of Elohim found the daughters of men desirable, it is addressing the begotten sons of God; not "made" sons of God. Many are begotten and not made in the present age. if you are called out of the present age to live a life according to the logos of the Eternal you are a spiritually begotten son of God.

These scriptures indicate those who God was working with before the flood (begotten sons of Elohim) had chosen to marry and give into marrying (old Hebrew for have sex with) with those who were not "called out ones" (daughters of men).

Yahweh cannot defy Elohim, for Yahweh IS Elohim.

God Bless,

originally posted by: Josephus
What about Genisis 8:20

"Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it."

So are we assuming that Noah's first action after the flood was to render several species extinct?

Also if the directives were in opposition to one another Noah, by only bringing a pair of each animal, would have clearly chosen a side (Elohim's). Why would he then turn around and make a sacrifice to Yahweh.

Noah was not instructed by God to gather 2 of every kind (1 pair).

He was instructed by God to gather 2 of each kind of "unclean" animal and 14 of each kind (7 pairs) of "clean" animal so that after the flood waters receded, he could make clean animal sacrifices without jeopardizing the extinction of a species.

Yahweh Elohim is the Eternal Creator God; the name is not two different beings as the OP incorrectly ascertains.

God Bless,

a reply to: ElohimJD

Great job explaining the truth so many refuse to accept. Just one small thing. Look into the name Yehoshua/Yeshua. You might find it very much to you liking.

Shalom

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

Isa 14:12 “How you have fallen from the heavens, O Hĕlĕl, son of the morning! You have been cut down to the ground, you who laid low the gentiles!"

Once again you have shown yourself to have n lack of knowledge.

Heylel, which means bright and shining king, or king of Babylon. It appears once in the Hebrew Bible. This could very well be a symbolic reference to the fallen guardian cherub from Ezekiel 28, but there is no such word in Hebrew as Lucifer. As you have found, Jerome mistranslated this to be Lucifer (some translations Satan). More correctly, Jesus called himself the bright and morning star, which is a better use of the word Lucifer. If you did in fact research this, then you know that Lucifer is not a good word to use for Satan, yet it is precisely what most people think of when they hear the word. Isaiah 14 is likely not a reference to Satan.

Is there anything incorrect in my statement on this?

WIKI - In this passage Isaiah applies to a king of Babylon the image of the morning star fallen from the sky, an image he is generally believed to have borrowed from a legend in Canaanite mythology.

originally posted by: ElohimJD
Yahweh Elohim is the Eternal Creator God; the name is not two different beings as the OP incorrectly ascertains.

Scribes, priests and prophets have argued and waged literal wars on each others trying to claim one thing or the other in relation to the supposed monotheism of the Bible and all the evidence of how the Torah has been edited ground up about 10 times over a period of several centuries. Most of these edits have had a mission related to theology. For instance is the part where Isaac is spared been added centuries after the story was written, in which Abraham sacrifices Isaac and nothing more is heard of him, suggesting that Abraham in his search for the One true God, failed imperatively on several occasions, and sacrificing his firstborn son Isaac, supposedly to Moloch. The God of Melchizedek, Abraham's priest, was El Shaday. Daniel calls his God El Illay. El was a Canaanite Father God. Jahve (Hosé ben Davud is his most fabled carnation) is supposed to have been one of his sons (just like Hosé), so was Yam (Leviathan, the seven headed Dragon) and Ba'al (the "Lord" or the "Husband") and a few others, seven sons in total and a number of daughters.

Now, God has many names, I agree, and God appears in many forms, also agree, and there is a part of him in each and every one of us and he made all this. OK. But this is not the really the Biblical God. The God I describe in this paragraph is the Hermetic God. He cannot be a person and he exists outside this Universe, he is Will, and True, Existence, Nous, he is the Force or the unison Forces (Elohim means Forces, understood Forces of Formation or Existence, the Laws and Forces governing this material Universe) of the Universe behind the universe. This material universe is seen as the materialised mind of God. This keyboard and this mouse are materialised thoughts of God, same goes with the Sun and the Moon and everything you can find out there among the stars.

There are many entities claiming to be God in the Bible. That should be pretty obvious.

a reply to: ElohimJD

So many incorrect assumptions made it is difficult to know where to start, I will simply clarify what is true regarding the incorrect name lables applied in the OP

God the Father = Yahweh Elohim

Read the whole response before answering. The context I show is accurate.

Genesis 1 does not support you on this. Elohim is the word used along with Ruach Elohim. When is says, "Let us make man in our own image," it is clearly referring to Adam as the Son of God and the other two as Father and Mother, or Ruach, which means the Spirit (Feminine) of God. In our own image then references the definition of this, which is male and female. Use the Names of God Bible from BibleGateway to see the correct translations of names. When we get to Genesis 2, the parents rest and Yahweh Elohim forms (not creates) Adam, plants (not creates) the garden and makes Satan. He then divides Adam's image by shedding the Lambs blood (slain from the foundation). Adam and Eve were naked, with Eve being the weaker of the two. Satan then tempts eve by design, which is likely what Yahweh designed him for. He was cunning. Using naked as a reference to Adam and Eve means without knowledge. Covering with the fig leaf is symbolic of what the fig leaf does for the fig. It covers the fruit to keep it from spoiling.

Please read the first two chapters of the book using the NOG Bible, then try to deny this view. You can't. The Bible then makes it clear after Genesis 3 when Yahweh Elohim becomes Yahweh. He loses his Elohim. He only gains it back when he decides to make one nation his own. In Genesis 9, Elohim (not Yahweh) decrees that if anyone sheds human blood again, by human blood 'HIS' blood will be shed. By saying His, he indicates Yahweh. How do we know. Elohim goes on to say why. Because in the image HE (Elohim) made man. BOTH male and female.

How do we know our end state will be this image again?

Matthew 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

The marriage of the groom to the bride restores the image separated by Yahweh. He is the deceiver from Genesis 2 to the end of the book when he finally tells Satan to be silenced. When did this happen? When he was preparing Joshua to put on a new Robe. In other words, Adam / Joshua / Jesus / Last Adam hung on the cross for blood. Yahweh should have been the one to pay that cost. Adam hangs on the cross and and we know this by Luke 3. Adam is the Son of God.

LUKE 3:37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Adam is the Son. Yahsua is Joshua in new clothes, or born again as Jesus.

Read about Joshua here: Read Zacheriah 3 if you want to Hear Yahweh Tell Satan to be Silenced

a reply to: ElohimJD

As I read the rest, I realize you are using your own imagination to connect things. I am using scripture to speak in the order it speaks. There can be no agreement from the whole if we see Yahweh as the God of Love. His character is counter to the truth we learn from Jesus and we only need note one fact: he made Satan.

We can argue that the Lord (land manager) is working Elohim's will, but we can in no way equate Yahweh with the Father. Have you read 1 Corinthians 13? God keeps no records of wrongs. How about Yahweh? Is he patient or kind? Does he keep records of wrongs? No, God is Love and Love is 1 Corinthians 13. Yahweh is an accuser and adversary. What is the character of Satan? Adversary and accuser.

a reply to: ElohimJD

Consider a related fact. Adon is Adonay, or another name Yahweh uses in the OT. The destroyer used on Sodom by Yahweh is Abaddon, or Ab (Father) of Adon (Lord / Son). In Revelation, the Angel from the bottomless pit is Abaddon / Apollyon, father of Adon. Connect the two and you know why Satan is with Yahweh. He made Satan to be the accuser of man. It's a specific purpose.

Search the Greek and find the same figures divided by Babel. Yahweh also goes by Marduk from Babylon. Check the very first few threads I did here on both Abaddon and Marduk.

Job 1

6 One day when the sons of Elohim came to stand in front of Yahweh, Satan the Accuser came along with them.

Was he accusing Joshua in Zacheriah 3? Yes. What was Joshua being prepared for with new clothes? His involution as Jesus.

a reply to: AlephBet

And as I have previously pointed out, the Cherub in Ezekiel 28 WAS Lucifer. Are you being intentionally dense, or is it just a reflex? Where do you get your information anyway, because it is not scriptural.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

And besides, when Lucifer fell, he became Satan. Just like Saul that became Paul. So in context, Satan was a murderer and liar.

The only thing that comes from my input, is to show that you have very little knowledge of the Scriptures.

Do a quick word search for the keywords: Jerome Lucifer Isaiah Satan

Tell me what you come up with. What is the Hebrew word for Lucifer?

Awesome, lots of people know this, of course...

I think it's ironic that the book called

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ" actually reveals
his identity, in the very last words attributed to him:

Rev: 22:16:

"I am the root and the offspring of David —the bright and Morning Star"

Of course, you are right, in Latin it would be Phosphorous and in
Greek would be Lucifer; and in Hebrew would be Helel.

There's even more confusion because the planet Venus was
referred to as Lucifer.

I don't think Rev 22:16 is saying that Jesus Christ was
indicating that he was the planet Venus.

Also Jesus is a complete mistranslation.

The name was Joshua, the same exact name as Joshua in
the Old Testament; or Yeshua in Hebrew (which means Joshua)

Great Post

P.S. Helel end in el; that's another story.

Rebel 5

a reply to: IndependentAgent

See the new Thread

Keep in mind that higher axioms resolve contradiction. I believe I have found the answer to identifying the Son as both Adam and Yahweh. My problem has been trying to fit Yahweh / Adam / Satan as three separate things. In the end, I believe they are all aspects of the same thing. Moses was hiding this in a mystery for us to solve. Human nature is all three. We are the dweller, the higher nature and the lower nature. For me, this is the simplest way to then expand the presuppositions that must follow this view forward.

a reply to: rebelv

New Thread.

I inch closer to this ever day. Tell me what you think of the new thread.

a reply to: AlephBet
I would love to see a new thread.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

See the new Thread

Keep in mind that higher axioms resolve contradiction. I believe I have found the answer to identifying the Son as both Adam and Yahweh. My problem has been trying to fit Yahweh / Adam / Satan as three separate things. In the end, I believe they are all aspects of the same thing. Moses was hiding this in a mystery for us to solve. Human nature is all three. We are the dweller, the higher nature and the lower nature. For me, this is the simplest way to then expand the presuppositions that must follow this view forward.

Lucifer and Satan are separate beings. The name Satan
has been slandered by so many religions and the name
is not even original to the NT or the OT or any of the
older religions.

In Sanskrit, Their name for their most high God
was Satan.

It literally means 'all truth' and transliterated
means something like 'from whom all truth comes'
or 'the source of all truth'

For many years experts have thought that many other
religions predated ancient Sanskrit, however in the
last decade or so experts are reanalyzing their position
on just how old original Sanskrit really is, and many leaning
to it being much older than previously thought; perhaps
even the oldest language on earth even predating
Sumerian.

The reasons are complex, one of them is how perfect
the language is. It is completely unambiguous. In fact,
computer programmers working on artificial intelligence
programs are leaning towards using Sanskrit just for this
reason.

Another reason experts are leaning in the direction of
thinking it may be the first language is because of
up until now unexplainable "co-incidental" influences
to other religions that allegedly predate Sanskrit and
the whole Satan thing is just one of them.

Indeed, for those who are biblically inclined, this
could have been the world wide religion talked about
in the story of Babylon before (as it is written) God
divided languages all throughout the world so that
men could not understand each other.

Just my two cents.

Rebel 5

YAHWEH is a personal name . Elohim is a title belonging to YAHWEH .

a reply to: TREESNAKE1111

So many people have tried to tell him that, but it seems like he has already made up his mind on Elohim and Yahweh being twoseparate beings. So did many other people.