Yahweh 2 - Yahweh Contradicts Elohim (Father) in Genesis 5-7 and is Denied by Elohim

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: Josephus
What about Genisis 8:20

"Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it."

So are we assuming that Noah's first action after the flood was to render several species extinct?

Also if the directives were in opposition to one another Noah, by only bringing a pair of each animal, would have clearly chosen a side (Elohim's). Why would he then turn around and make a sacrifice to Yahweh.

Genesis 7:2 "Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth."

Seven pairs of clean animals and birds. So sacrificing one or two does not cause extinction.

There was a subtle point you have missed from the OP. Yahweh said to take seven, which is what Noah did before entering the Ark. What happened? Pairs entered the Ark, just as Elohim requested. Yahweh was denied his command by Elohim. Elohim's will was done, which is what Jesus then said in the model prayer. Thy will.

There are such subtle little nuances here that they are missed if you are not looking intently. Go back and read very closely. This was the main point of the thread topic. Yahweh was denied his command to Noah.

He did take! There was nothing denied. It was done as He (Yahweh Elohim) had commanded.

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

The animals that was lead into the ark, as a pair, was those who would later repopulate the earth.

The animals that was taken by seven pairs was for Burn-Offerings and food.

If you can not figure that one out, then you should really stop creating threads...

Genesis 7

8 Clean and unclean animals, birds, and creatures that crawl on the ground 9 came to Noah to go into the ship in pairs (a male and female of each) as Elohim had commanded Noah.

In pairs into the ark, just as Elohim had commanded Noah.

Keep going though. We are getting the idea from your comments in my threads what your agenda seems to be. Clarification to the threads comes by your pretext. As one other person commented, you are clearly seen for your twisting of the truth.

Keep going.

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

The animals that was lead into the ark, as a pair, was those who would later repopulate the earth.

The animals that was taken by seven pairs was for Burn-Offerings and food.

If you can not figure that one out, then you should really stop creating threads...

Genesis 7

8 Clean and unclean animals, birds, and creatures that crawl on the ground 9 came to Noah to go into the ship in pairs (a male and female of each) as Elohim had commanded Noah.

In pairs into the ark, just as Elohim had commanded Noah.

Keep going though. We are getting the idea from your comments in my threads what your agenda seems to be. Clarification to the threads comes by your pretext. As one other person commented, you are clearly seen for your twisting of the truth.

Keep going.

Once again history repeats itself with you not answering objections.
If you do not answer or respond to our comments, you are seen as arrogant. Just thought you should know.

Clarification to the threads comes by your pretext.

Now that I have to agree with! Clarification to the fact that you are unable to answer the objections raised because that will falsify your theories.

a reply to: IndependentAgent

Your game is over. We realize what you are doing. Please stop.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

Your game is over. We realize what you are doing. Please stop.

And what am I doing, besides pointing out your flawed logic?

originally posted by: IndependentAgent

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

Your game is over. We realize what you are doing. Please stop.

And what am I doing, besides pointing out your flawed logic?

Ignoring my responses and feed information in your replies that is twisted from the truth. You then accuse me of your tactic, which is the very definition of counterfeit truth. You know your methods well, yet most on ATS know this tactic well. It does not work here. We see right through it.

Either you are doing it intentionally, or you are just not paying attention. Either way, it's getting old.

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

The animals that was lead into the ark, as a pair, was those who would later repopulate the earth.

The animals that was taken by seven pairs was for Burn-Offerings and food.

If you can not figure that one out, then you should really stop creating threads...

There is another theory.

The 7 were the other races of mankind.

Giving it some thought there is no way all the current races of humans on the earth came out of the same family. It doesn't matter what race Noah was, the whole earth would now be populated by one race.

Another thing to think about....Yahweh told Moses that before He was known simply as the Almighty God but was now to be known by name. He even told Moses "who made mans mouth" referring to Himself when Moses protested that he couldn't speak well, had a speech impediment of some sort.

Anyway the whole dialog there tosses a wrench in much of the Yahweh/Elohim dialog on this thread.

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: IndependentAgent

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

Your game is over. We realize what you are doing. Please stop.

And what am I doing, besides pointing out your flawed logic?

Ignoring my responses and feed information in your replies that is twisted from the truth. You then accuse me of your tactic, which is the very definition of counterfeit truth. You know your methods well, yet most on ATS know this tactic well. It does not work here. We see right through it.

Either you are doing it intentionally, or you are just not paying attention. Either way, it's getting old.

I am quoting the Scriptures, and believe what has been written. You, on the other hand, read averse, and make wild assumption on that, which can easily be shown as false by other verses.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: IndependentAgent
a reply to: AlephBet

The animals that was lead into the ark, as a pair, was those who would later repopulate the earth.

The animals that was taken by seven pairs was for Burn-Offerings and food.

If you can not figure that one out, then you should really stop creating threads...

There is another theory.

The 7 were the other races of mankind.

Giving it some thought there is no way all the current races of humans on the earth came out of the same family. It doesn't matter what race Noah was, the whole earth would now be populated by one race.

A well known fact is when breeding dog, pigeons, on even flowers, you will find that when beginning with only 2, you can get many varieties, shapes and sizes in only a few years. It is called selective breeding.

And there was 3 wives, from other nations.

a reply to: IndependentAgent

The 'seven primordial people' are Adam, Eve, Cain, Lilith, Abel, Seth and his wife, Abel's widow the lady Adam rejected since he had seen the process God went through to create her, and having seen all her insides, he was unable to love her.

originally posted by: Logarock
Another thing to think about....Yahweh told Moses that before He was known simply as the Almighty God but was now to be known by name. He even told Moses "who made mans mouth" referring to Himself when Moses protested that he couldn't speak well, had a speech impediment of some sort.

Anyway the whole dialog there tosses a wrench in much of the Yahweh/Elohim dialog on this thread.

Yes, Yahweh conceded to Moses, letting Aaron speak for him. You might think that the real God would have simply empowered Moses to speak, or known from the beginning that Moses would need to be an eloquent speaker. Of course, it can be argued, as it often is shown, that Yahweh wanted his faith. The standard answer is to say that if Moses had only been faithful, Yahweh would have empowered him. This is a primary lesson in scripture and in many stories. We limit ourselves by lacking the mental muscle to take the leap of faith. I could go either way, but this is the least of our worries with Yahweh. I am more concerned with his willingness to kill for his own glory. He continually says, "Then they (meaning Israel) shall know I am Lord." His chief desire is worship and being recognized as their God. To me, it is obvious why. What is not obvious is our primary presupposition that there is only one God in the house. Seemingly, there are many beings wanting the job.

If we take the view of Genesis 1 as Father and Mother, then all our presuppositions must change to figure Adam as the image of God and Son of God hanging on the cross. From this stance, we see a different story emerge. Yahweh and Satan can then be seen as the Roman Catholic Church / Islam / Joseph Smith / Cults trying to take the story and divide people by variation. This has always been the method. From the very beginning, Yahweh divided Adam from His true image. By this, he clothed him by experience. We must have an enemy to overcome or we do not grow.

Can it be argued that Yahweh and Satan are merely doing their job as adversaries? Likely. Yahweh can always justify his actions by our own ignorance of them. Even if his actions are righteous, they are self-righteous, which amounts to wickedness. Education preserves dignity, seeing the weakness in the other. Yahweh is the opposite. He draws out the weakness as a reason to take vengeance. This is one method of education, but not the most effective. When you do 'TO' someone, you are taking. When you do 'FOR' someone, you are giving. God's will is to give and receive. Yahweh has the will of the thief throughout scripture.

Clearly, all of his students rebelled in duplicity. Love would have caused the opposite effect had he removed bias and condescension from his words to every nation. He IS the divider and destroyer of nations. By his example, we see ourselves. By our example, he sees himself. If we could meet the entity named Yahweh, we would likely be able to see his character in one conversation. We do not get that luxury. He hides himself claiming holiness, yet we see only blood continually. Even today, the story continues in the same pattern as ever. Perhaps it is mans job to show him another way eventually.

Can we say this would be possible apart from the relationship over these many thousands of years? No. The adversary / accuser relationship is the means to an end. I would say it is Elohim intended purpose. Yahweh likely existed before man was made. There is a back story to this mess they use us to fight.

a reply to: AlephBet

I'm glad somebody caught on to this, I've known it for
years having studied the bible from a Gnostic
perspective.

In The Old Testament (OT) there are actually three
different gods.

Here is something helpful to actually differentiate
them.

Grab a copy of the original King James Version
(Not The New King James Version) and here is
the code:

God=Elohim
Lord God=Jehovah or Yahweh
Lord=Adoni

In Genesis 1:1 it reads

"In the Beginning God created the heavens
and the earth."

Therefore Elohim is God. The other two are gods
(with a small g) or false gods.

Once knowing the code, one can read pretty
quickly who the good guy is and also all
the nasty stuff is said and done by Jehovah
and Adoni.

For example, as the OP stated
There were actually two different
creations, first Elohim created Humans
(on the 6th day)

In fact, the word 'God' is used throughout
the entire first chapter of Genesis when
everything was created.

The final verse of Chapter one:

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

The first Paragraph of Chapter two:

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

Notice it consistently uses the word 'God' which is Elohim.

Now, the VERY NEXT paragraph, and remember up until now
its all been 'God' all the way from Genesis 1:1

This is the second paragraph of Chapter 2:

"4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,..."

Notice now its "the Lord God" That is Jehovah who is LYING
He did not create the heavens and the earth, that was Elohim.
Here is Jehovah pretending to be God while God is resting.

Verse 7:

Now remember, this is AFTER Elohim created humans, and declared
the seventh day to be a day of rest (in which nothing else was to
be created)

Verse 7:

"7And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

Therefore, right off the bat, we see EXACTLY what Elohim
forbid, that anything else be created on His day of rest, which
is EXACTLY what Jehovah does; and he creates mankind (Adam
means Mankind)

The entire Garden of Eden story is now about Jehovah.

The Serpent, by the way is actually a form Elohim took
and I know this because contrary to popular belief, having
studied it very closely, The Serpent does not ever tell a lie,
however Jehovah does lie.

That's another story though, but easy to prove if you
really know the bible and I've done it to Christians before
taking out their bibles and showing them where Jehovah lied,
and The Serpent did not.

Rebel 5

a reply to: rebelv

BibleGateway.com has the Names of God (NOG) Bible. You are correct. Elohim is Father mentioned by Jesus. Ruach Elohim is the Mother, or Holy Spirit. To get a clear view of this, see my first thread where I show their names in Hebrew as Father (Aleph Bet), Mother (Aleph Mem) and Son (Bet Nun). You can see then why WORD in John 1 was used for the Son written by the Father (Aelphbet). Alephbet represents the letters of the Father writing the word. Where is the proof? DNA.

Hidden in the Letters of Creation

originally posted by: AlephBet

Can it be argued that Yahweh and Satan are merely doing their job as adversaries?

Yet again it is my duty to disprove you belief of Satan created for evil.

Eze 28:13-17 “You were in Ěḏen, the garden of Elohim. Every precious stone was your covering: the ruby, topaz, and diamond, beryl, shoham, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald and gold. The workmanship of your settings and mountings was prepared for you on the day you were created.
“You were the anointed kerub that covered. And I placed you, you were on the set-apart mountain of Elohim. You walked up and down in the midst of stones of fire.
“You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you.
“By the greatness of your trade you became filled with violence within, and you sinned. So I thrust you from the mountain of Elohim, and I destroyed you, O covering kerub from the midst of the stones of fire.
“Your heart was lifted up because of your loveliness, you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. I threw you to the earth, I laid you before sovereigns, to look at you. "

Jud 1:6 "And the messengers (angels) who did not keep their own principality, but left their own dwelling, He has kept in everlasting shackles under darkness for the judgment of the great day. "

Isa 14:11 " ‘Your arrogance has been brought down to the grave, and the sound of your stringed instruments; the maggot is spread under you, and worms cover you.’ "

Job 38:7 "...when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Elohim shouted for joy?"

a reply to: IndependentAgent

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

John 1

4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Who does the Word overcome? Who is the Word? The Son of God, or Adam. You are the one that must overcome through the Son, which is humanity. Our process to overcome the Father of Israel is held in this verse:

John 8

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Is this not clear enough for you to see who Yahweh truly is? Who asks man to kill in his name against the prohibition of Genesis 9? Yahweh. Overcome.

Keep going though. This clarifies the passages for everyone.

a reply to: AlephBet

What is the point you are trying to make? That He is both love and punishment?

John 8:44 does not use the Hebrew word "śâṭân".

There are more than one devil. Any fallen angel, or demon, is a devil.

And besides, when Lucifer fell, he became Satan. Just like Saul that became Paul. So in context, Satan was a murderer and liar.

The only thing that comes from my input, is to show that you have very little knowledge of the Scriptures.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: IndependentAgent

Who asks man to kill in his name against the prohibition of Genesis 9? Yahweh. Overcome.

Please show me the verses you are referring to.

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: rebelv

BibleGateway.com has the Names of God (NOG) Bible. You are correct. Elohim is Father mentioned by Jesus. Ruach Elohim is the Mother, or Holy Spirit. To get a clear view of this, see my first thread where I show their names in Hebrew as Father (Aleph Bet), Mother (Aleph Mem) and Son (Bet Nun). You can see then why WORD in John 1 was used for the Son written by the Father (Aelphbet). Alephbet represents the letters of the Father writing the word. Where is the proof? DNA.

Hidden in the Letters of Creation

I missed you're first post. When I have time I'll
check it out. It sounds like you're very studied as well.

Its fascinating to read your posts, especially since
there are so many hidden things in the bible, and
I don't get the opportunity too much to talk to
people about these hidden things, especially with
someone else who knows about them also.

As a Gnostic, of course I seek out the esoteric,
and in my opinion the entire OT and especially
The Gospels have esoteric meaning below the surface
if one reads carefully and tests their assumptions.

Thanks for the thread, I look forward to reading
part 1

Rebel 5

a reply to: IndependentAgent

And besides, when Lucifer fell, he became Satan. Just like Saul that became Paul. So in context, Satan was a murderer and liar.

The only thing that comes from my input, is to show that you have very little knowledge of the Scriptures.

Do a quick word search for the keywords: Jerome Lucifer Isaiah Satan

Tell me what you come up with. What is the Hebrew word for Lucifer?