Jon Stewart - "Nobody says, hey, men should not drink..."

You do know that most rapes are by someone you know. It's not like most rapists are hiding in the bushes waiting for someone in scant clothing to walk by.

originally posted by: tavi45


You've accepted the inevitability of rapists. I bet if ever rapist in the military was court martialed and every college student rapist expelled we'd see a lot of improvement. You're part of the problem when you advocate for more responsibility on the victims even if you don't DIRECTLY blame them.

You know what? I totally agree with that. But unfortunately those rapists will never be punished for whatever reason. I've accepted that. I've accepted the reality that women need to protect themselves. I'm advocating being safe by not getting sloppy drunk in public because rape isn't the only thing you make yourself potentially a victim to. No one forces these women to get sloppy drunk and pass out. In a perfect world they would be able to get drunk and pass out and someone would tuck them into bed and no one would lay a single finger on them. But it's not a perfect world so we need to be responsible and protect ourselves. Apparently advocating that means I'm indirectly victim blaming. My bad.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
You do know that most rapes are by someone you know. It's not like most rapists are hiding in the bushes waiting for someone in scant clothing to walk by.

Yes. I know that. Your point is?

In fact, that's even more reason to take responsibility of yourself in this victim blaming and shaming world to overthink things. "What if I do this and this happens." "Could this happen if I do this?" And to teach our family members "If someone does this fight back or scream." Something. Anything.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Honestly, I think most of us know not to go into certain areas in the towns where we live, as well as when it's time to go home. I don't know a woman whoever "asked" to be raped.

Beyond that, some of the statements you've made do sound a bit on the "blame the victim" side.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

We seem to be doing pretty solid on the murder thing. Why can't we do it with rape? Because somebodys "good" kid might get thrown in jail for one bad mistake. Last I checked we don't let people off for murder even if they were upstanding citizens previously but we do for rape.

In my high school a girl caught a guy raping a girl red handed and he was not punished at all. In fact he was one of our youth ambassadors to China. He now enjoys a high paying job and widespread respect. His family had connections so the school and town government and police swept it under the rug because he's a "good" kid. This happens CONSTANTLY involving promising college students, hardworking military men and police and many other areas of society. It's time to start holding these people responsible.

Women ALREADY know to be careful and most ALREADY are. Maybe you should listen Senator Gillabrand. She's experienced this gender bias in school, in her job, and even as a god damn UNITED STATES SENATOR. Stop defending rapists. You can say you're not but you are.

Added after reading your most recent response :
You say you've accepted that they don't get in trouble for whatever reason. That's the problem. People just go "oh well boys will be boys" and that's the end of it. Seriously all this was discussed on the daily show clip. Did you even watch it?

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

We seem to be doing pretty solid on the murder thing. Why can't we do it with rape? Because somebodys "good" kid might get thrown in jail for one bad mistake. Last I checked we don't let people off for murder even if they were upstanding citizens previously but we do for rape.

In my high school a girl caught a guy raping a girl red handed and he was not punished at all. In fact he was one of our youth ambassadors to China. He now enjoys a high paying job and widespread respect. His family had connections so the school and town government and police swept it under the rug because he's a "good" kid. This happens CONSTANTLY involving promising college students, hardworking military men and police and many other areas of society. It's time to start holding these people responsible.

Women ALREADY know to be careful and most ALREADY are. Maybe you should listen Senator Gillabrand. She's experienced this gender bias in school, in her job, and even as a god damn UNITED STATES SENATOR. Stop defending rapists. You can say you're not but you are.

Kay. That's why other women in this thread have agreed with me.
We're all defending rapists by saying we should be careful.
Thanks.

You're defending rapists by advocating that the problem is unfixable and so women need to do EVEN more to defend themselves. Rape is not the flu. You can't just advocate good habits and leave it at that. ESPECIALLY since women all already know this stuff. They were taught it much the same way young black males are taught to submit to police authority by their parents.

originally posted by: tavi45
You're defending rapists by advocating that the problem is unfixable and so women need to do EVEN more to defend themselves. Rape is not the flu. You can't just advocate good habits and leave it at that. ESPECIALLY since women all already know this stuff. They were taught it much the same way young black males are taught to submit to police authority by their parents.

Okay. I defend rapists, you caught me.
Seriously? No. I'm being realistic. If there is a chance of getting raped, why would you put yourself in that situation?
Why would ANY female put themselves in that situation? I would avoid it like the damn plague. "Oh, you want me to go out and get #faced with you tonight? Will someone in our group be sober? No? Okay. I'm comfy getting drunk at home. Thanks for the invite."

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I can hardly believe what I'm reading... especially from someone who says they're a woman. WHY can't we teach men not to rape??? WHY can't we change rapists??? You seem to think that we can't do anything about the rapist, so we'll make the victim responsible???? That's crazy talk! Absolutely insane!

there will always be a handful of people with a psychopathic/criminal disposition, you can't "teach men not to rape" for the same reason you can't teach women not to be murderers. the only people in society who don't think those acts are wrong are either psychopathic/evil or mentally ill.

I guarantee you take precautions against crime I doubt you leave your front door unlocked when you go out or leave your car running with the door open in a bad neighborhood. Most people don't, because it is common sense to accept there will always be a certain amount of bad people in the world that sensible actions need to be taken to protect yourself from them.

If someone failed to employ common sense and had something bad happen as a result, I would be sympathetic to them but it is in part there own doing.

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

Because it is not a woman's responsibility to prevent rape. She shouldn't have to.

If a woman got black-out drunk, dressed scantily, and danced provocatively every single night for her entire life and she even once got raped, it would not be her fault. Rape is the fault of the rapist, no matter what.

As a woman who was raped I agree with this statement 100%.

a reply to: monkofmimir

You guys act like all rapists are the "hide in alley with a knife" kind. We can't stop those type of psychopaths. You're absolutely correct. The rape issue we face is that there are otherwise upstanding citizens who will commit rape that involved coercion or non lethal force who do it because they know they'll get away with it.

The kid in my high school was not a crazy sociopath. He was a horny teen who thought he could get away with it. He did even though he got caught. This happens every day. It happens in the US military. You know, the place where questioning an order can get you thrown in jail with no trial.

So please repeat again that we've done all we can on the legal/prosecution side of the rape issue and it's up to women to protect themselves.

One of my sisters is a paranoid depressed shut in. She avoided drunken parties and hook ups because she was afraid of rape. Her mental health suffered massively PRECISELY because she followed all your helpful advice. You know, the advice she was given over twenty years ago because its been passed down from mother to daughter for millenia.

So please repeat again that my sister should do EVEN more to be careful because men can't control their sex drive or hold themselves or reach other accountable.

I really hope you're just insane men's rights people pretending to be women because if you truly are women you need some psychological help for your Stockholm Syndrome.

Apparently there are places where all men believe they can't control themselves. They force women to wear black tents to cover their bodies.

It's beyond ludicrous.

originally posted by: tavi45
OK yes. Women should be careful. But the problem is that too many rapes are just swept under the carpet. In sports, college and the military, rape is less a state lottery probability and more a rigged roulette wheel and rarely is anything pursued at all.

As a man of average looks I've never had any fear of rape. My sister of average looks is terrified to an almost paranoid degree. Her whole life she's been cautious to the point where she's missed out on a lot. Some of this stems from the abducting of a female jogger in my town in broad daylight (not a slum, one of the nicest safest places in the USA) and also her and my other sister getting stalked by a van for a long time which the police couldn't solve.

Either way the message on caution for woman is out. We're way past the education and awareness stage. Let's start trying to cure the disease.

The best way to do that is to stop protecting rapists and blaming victims. You can say you're not victim blaming all day but when you're still taking about things the victims can/should do, that's all it is.

You've accepted the inevitability of rapists. I bet if ever rapist in the military was court martialed and every college student rapist expelled we'd see a lot of improvement. You're part of the problem when you advocate for more responsibility on the victims even if you don't DIRECTLY blame them.

I applaud you for your post. You said it all.

Uh no. I'm actually a woman, and I'm just tired of always being the damn victim. Obviously no one is coming to mine or any other persons rescue because we still have men and women that blame the raped instead of the rapist.
Apparently by suggesting that we take extra precautions such as not drinking heavily in public, carrying a tazer, pepper spray or other similar products, you're advocating rape. Sorry, but no. I'm just tired of this "We need to protect women. Women can't defend themselves. Women are victims" bull#. Apparently by saying that women should be more careful in public it means that I'm defending rapists. No, I'm saying you should avoid situations that could potentially lead to rape. If you want to get drunk, have a DD and/or a 'body guard,' for the night. Take precautions.
I just don't get this whole women = victim crap. Stand up for yourself. Defend yourself. Take responsibility for yourself. No one else is going to. Be realistic. Stop living in this damn fantasyland. Teaching men not to rape isn't working. We tried that.
I'm all for feminism and "let's put those bad guys away!" Because any person with half of a brain should want to put the bad people away. Feminism is all about standing up, being strong and not playing the victim. Women are always the victim, and we have the opportunity and the resources to change that. But hell, you suggest the idea of being careful and aware of your surroundings and taking responsibility of your actions in public and all hell breaks loose. Apparently it's then that you're advocating something other than taking control of your life. And protecting yourself. And other women.
Sorry I was a number in the pool of women who are raped. Sorry I refuse to add to that anymore. Sorry I'm not a victim, and refuse to be called one. I don't play that role well, and don't want to see women continue to play that role.

Go out in public, have fun, have a grand time. But be aware of your surroundings, don't be stupid, and protect and defend yourself. Be a self rescuing princess, damn.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.

Now that you're back-pedaling a bit on your initial posts blaming women for getting raped, I wanted to be sure that everyone also remembers that you said the above quote. There's a theme here: you don't like women. The fact that you claim to be a woman doesn't negate that.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.

Now that you're back-pedaling a bit on your initial posts blaming women for getting raped, I wanted to be sure that everyone also remembers that you said the above quote. There's a theme here: you don't like women. The fact that you claim to be a woman doesn't negate that.

You caught me. /sarcasm.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.

Now that you're back-pedaling a bit on your initial posts blaming women for getting raped, I wanted to be sure that everyone also remembers that you said the above quote. There's a theme here: you don't like women. The fact that you claim to be a woman doesn't negate that.

Also, I never blamed women. But good try. = )

a reply to: Tangerine

Sadly I'm only the most recent of many thousands to say it, many of whom are actual victims and still men fearful of playing 2nd fiddle and women with Stockholm Syndrome still don't listen.

m.thisamericanlife.org...

The link I provided is a women's whistleblowing on the Fed and Goldman Sachs. In it she says something along the lines of "we've vetted it to death". Abusers of power and their ignorant flock hide behind promises to look into issues. They say we just can't fix it that easily and then blame the victims. It happens with so many issues and it's just sad that people won't own up.

The same games played with rape play out everywhere with immoral people and as long as they can afford a good lawyer they get off the hook. I personally think the rule of law has failed. The parallel between banks blaming poor and middle class people for their problems while parasitically feeding on them and people blaming women for being raped amaze me.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
Uh no. I'm actually a woman, and I'm just tired of always being the damn victim.

Apparently, you see the world divided into two camps: victims and aggressors. You understandably don't want to be a victim so you're identifying with the aggressor. Psychology 101. If you were a victim of a crime, you were, indeed a victim--unless you want to psychologically twist it around to the point where you believe you deserved it, are self-loathing, and identify with the aggressor--which is what you're doing.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic


That's another problem I have, too. Is that a woman can say, "I was drunk and raped." But she clearly said yes. That isn't rape and a man (or very seldom, woman) gets put away FOR YEARS because someone was too ashamed to admit they were irresponsibly drunk and had casual sex.

Now that you're back-pedaling a bit on your initial posts blaming women for getting raped, I wanted to be sure that everyone also remembers that you said the above quote. There's a theme here: you don't like women. The fact that you claim to be a woman doesn't negate that.

Also, I never blamed women. But good try. = )

If you're so out of touch with reality that you don't recognize that you blamed women, you need more help than you can get via a bulletin board. I suggest that you seek it--pronto.