Scotland Vote No In Referendum – Selfish, Scared People, Well Done!

It gives more time for Scotland and the UK to set things up in the future if independence does happen eventually, which they should plan for now to help give some satisfaction for those who wanted it. It creates stronger stability for them both. I just think its bad timing for independance.

a reply to: shauny

If you don't like it move...
You are British If you like it or not.
Like I have said we can vote this lot out we as a united people can do it.

This what I asked:

originally posted by: stumason
Care to show us this "crap" that has been documented that England has done all over the world? This should be interesting....

And this is what you replied with, predictable really which is why I said it would be interesting...

originally posted by: bigman88
To ask this means that you are in willful, belligerent denial of your governments crimes against humanity in the quest for domination.

This was a simple, easy google search

listverse.com...

Crimes of the British Empire?

Hahaha, you fool. The British Empire is not England and England is not Britain. I gave you enough rope to hang yourself with and you even kicked the chair out from beneath you as well. Nice one, well done.

The British Empire includes Scotland who were quite willing and even leading members, so if you're going to cast aspersions about the Empire, it includes them as well.

originally posted by: bigman88
I guess these nations asked Britain to be ruled by them also, huh?

Sod all to do with England and it's alleged crimes, though.

originally posted by: bigman88
As i said, your education system will not teach you the truth, but it is still your responsibility to find out, as a man of your country.

Dont be a blind, dumb imperialist.

Actually, our education system did teach me about the British Empire, warts and all. However, as pointed out, you were claiming that there was crap that England had done around the world and was documented, but then you provide a list of supposed British crimes.

Dumb imperialist? Back at ya, stupid Yank...

a reply to: shauny

Good luck with that - lawyers? To do what, exactly?

Accept the vote and move on. 55% of the people who could even be bothered to vote decided to stay in the Union. When you factor in the 663,477 people who couldn't even be arsed to vote, 62% of the people of Scotland didn't want to be an independent nation.

Stop being such a whiny crybaby - you'd be perfectly willing to accept the vote if it had gone your way and would be telling anyone who was crying like you are to shut up and accept it, so why not do the same?

originally posted by: bigman88

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: bigman88

Care to show us this "crap" that has been documented that England has done all over the world? This should be interesting....

It's clear you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, for starters England didn't "absorb" the Scots, or even conquer them. They asked to join a Union with England, which was initially resisted.

To ask this means that you are in willful, belligerent denial of your governments crimes against humanity in the quest for domination.

This was a simple, easy google search

listverse.com...

I guess these nations asked Britain to be ruled by them also, huh?

As i said, your education system will not teach you the truth, but it is still your responsibility to find out, as a man of your country.

Dont be a blind, dumb imperialist.

Oh dear, don't YOU look like a complete idiot after writing that nonsense..
Maybe you should do some reading
www.historytoday.com...

originally posted by: bigman88
a reply to: Gorman91

So isn't that up to them to find out, by themselves?

The people of Scotland HAVE spoken for themselves. The majority are happy to remain within the UK, remember?

Or do you think you and your empire are just inherently entitled to "help" everyone they think needs help, whether they like it or not?

Hi, what's it like back there in 1899? You may have missed the changeover to a commonwealth of nations in which former Empire possessions were given their independence freely and mostly chose to remain affiliated with Britain? The British Empire is the only one in history that experienced this following withdrawal from power, so maybe you might need to rethink your tired old stereotype. Things aren't always as black as they're painted.

Are you now going to demonstrate your failure to comprehend my post by pretending as if I wrote that the empire was lovely and we never got anything wrong? Only that's what your sort usually do and it's very tedious.

Who says that they can't run their own economy fine without oil or solar power? Who says that they can't live fine off of the pound?

Jeez, the arrogance... You need the HELL out of us, so shutup. Jeez...

THEY did, the Scots themselves, so maybe you need to get over your stupid anglophobia.

a reply to: shauny

How is willing to share with other countries selfish? What do you think people where scared of?

It took more courage to stay in the Union and face the problems we have as a whole than jump ship! I wasn't willing to abandon my fellow Britain's just because times are hard. Salmond made it a lot easier for me to vote NO with his blatant lying.

Thing's are bad just now! Everywhere's the same and Nationalistic fervor and suicidal SNP Politics would have made the situation even worse. The fear you propose is called common sense. My relatives did not fight in 2 World Wars for a muppet like Salmond to rip apart the UK with his hatred for English folk.

a reply to: DrunkYogi

I don't think Salmond hates the English. You just made that up. It was the opposite of courage that led to the no vote. How is self determination abandoning fellow Britains? It took courage to vote yes in the face of fear mongering and political spin. I hope Wesminster doesn't follow up on it's promises so that we might persuade those that lacked courage to join the call for independence.

a reply to: midicon

Or, on the flipside, it took courage to stand up to the intimidation by the Nat's and follow your convictions..

But, I am not about to call one side or the other "cowards" or what have you, everyone had their own choice to make and it is entirely down to them why they chose what they did. Everyone should respect that and not resort to bitter, twisted name-calling and recriminations, which is what we've seen around ATS the last 24 hours, especially from the Yes camp.

Do you not think your being a bit disingenuous to your countrymen for not respecting their decision without calling them cowards? 62% of Scots didn't want independence, once you factor in the 600,000 odd that didn't even bother to vote. That is overwhelmingly in favour of remaining a United Kingdom - if you really want to show "courage", then get over the result, stop with the petty name calling and work with your countrymen to heal the wounds, not drive them further apart.

And yes, Westminster is guaranteed to honour the devo-max pledge - for Scotland anyway. Labour are already pulling back from any form of change in England.

originally posted by: twfau

This graph supports what I thought: that older people, traditionally afraid of change, voted in opposition to the majority of the younger voters. I'm sure their pension funds didn't come into thought when they voted.

LOL!!! Looking at your graph only supports the theory that wisdom

comes with age and experience.....

It virtually proves that 'once bitten twice shy' as the older one gets

the less the blatant lies are believed, having been there and done that!


QUOTE

You may fool all the people some of the time;

You can even fool some of the people all the time ;

But you cant fool all of the people all of the time ......Abe Lincoln

a reply to: stumason

Completely wrong. It didn't take courage to vote for the same old, same old. It took courage to vote for change. I agree about the twisted bitter name calling but I respond to those who call us cowards for wanting self determination.

It also took courage to vote yes when at the same time one realises that independence would have given rise to sectarian violence. The Orange Order said as much in Edinburgh when they mentioned the para-military.

The whole better together campaign was based on fear and yet those that had the courage to stand against it are branded cowards. Twisted logic that serves a particular mindset.

I think we should keep pushing for independence. The last vestiges of that old labour vanguard that is the OAP's in Scotland will soon give way to a generation that has different views.

Ther are no wounds, just injustice. If you think this referendum was fair then I think you are wrong. But it's just my opinion nothing more.

I find it odd that people who vote against your ideal are called selfish, when in fact aren't you being exactly the same for voting for your ideal?

Remember, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't automatically make them wrong and you right or vice versa!!

It's a difference of opinion and unfortunately for you more people held the opposite opinion.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: shauny



If you don't like it move...

You are British If you like it or not.

Like I have said we can vote this lot out we as a united people can do it.

I'm curious, which lot are you voting out...and who will be replacing them?

a reply to: midicon

Now I am confused - who's been calling the Yes camp cowards? I've certainly not seen it here on ATS (albeit, as awesome and omnipotent as I am, I can't be everywhere) nor have I seen anything of the sort out in the "real world", as it were.

And why is it you simply cannot accept that people with a different viewpoint to yours are entitled to that without being accused of "lacking courage"?

For most, it seems, there is simply no reason to usher in humongous change and uncertainty for no good reason - and let's face it, there simply was not a good enough reason for Scotland to go independent aside from a romantic ideal.

Written and performed by one of our ATS members...








Jane

a reply to: bigman88


I'll just throw in a FACT here:

On point 4 of the link you provided as a point of History my father was

there so I can tell you it was not quite as simple as that.

In 1947 my English father of Welsh extraction was actually there in the

Police force and paid by the Indian Government to quell the riots

between (Hindu and Muhammaden) Indians.

A peace maker NOT an antagonist.

At that time Muslims were referred to as Muhammadens but I understand

that, that word is no longer politically correct.

a reply to: stumason

I don't think it was a proper and fair referendum, perhaps there is no such thing. I have no objection to the no voters but the fears were driven and exagerated by the media. Perhaps you can't see that as you have the result you wanted. Or indeed as the referendum played out we each looked at it through different lenses. There have been comments about abandoning ship and such like, I am not inclined to go trawling through threads for them.

It is a shame that the politically savvy here on ATS did not offer more encouragement, particulary people like yourself, more concerned about Westminster and devolution than an opportunity for a nation with aspirations for self determination. If Scotland had achieved independence then it may in turn have led to real change for the English people. Now we have nothing and any change will likely be little more than cosmetic.

I have learned something though. Real change will never come from Westminster.

a reply to: midicon

If I am honest, I was not sure what result I "wanted". When I was on the way to work on Friday morning, I hadn't seen the news so when I turned the radio on in the car and Nick Grimshaw began to announce the result, I got a knot in my stomach and even now, I am not sure if I was fearful of a Yes vote, happy for a NO vote or what have you. I am pleased though there won't be a breakup, it would have simply been a total, acrimonious mess.

On the subject of a "nation with aspirations", I really didn't understand it. It seemed rooted in some romantic desire and sold on promises which, upon examination, were far-fetched at best. It made no logical sense and, much to the annoyance of my missus, I don't often submit to emotion, instead relying on a cold, hard evaluation of the facts available. Comes with the trade, I suppose.

I can understand your pessimism with regards to Westminster and the promises, but so far at least the Tories are trying to live up to it. It is Labour putting the breaks on and this is true to form.

The Tories do appear to want to honour the pre-vote pledge made to the Scots and at the same time, offer a fairer deal to everyone in the UK. I am prepared to give them a chance and see who exactly backs out of what come 2015 and the GE, that way I can decide who gets my vote. Parties such as UKIP could make good political capital out of this if Labour (and the Tories) aren't careful.

originally posted by: midicon

Or indeed as the referendum played out we each looked at it through different lenses.

Too Right .... how easy was that?

It is a shame that the politically savvy here on ATS did not offer more encouragement

They did .... from both perspectives ..... but there can only ever be

one winner, and some people will always be left disappointed losers!

a reply to: stumason

A fair reply Stu.

When I went into the voting booth, for a moment I paused with a little trepidation before casting my vote. So I do understand any genuine fears for the future. It is what it is and we will have to deal with it. Who knows what the future will bring, it may be England's turn to step up and demand change if change is not forthcoming. The Labour party in Scotland is not as popular as some would imagine although how this referendum will affect the political parties up here is anyone's guess.

The truth is that the main reason most of us wanted independence was to break away from Westminster but at every turn we were being told that we weren't fit for purpose. I don't know about a nation with aspirations...I just want my life and the society I live in to follow a different path from the road we are on. If nothing else, these are interesting times. Gordon Brown is lapping all of this up, he has emerged from his obscurity after losing the last election and is now on centre stage and the focus of the media. You couldn't make it up. I think all this independence thing will die down, we just have to get over our dissapointment.

Regards Midicon.