Will an independant Scotland be part of NATO, UN treatise. Have a Military?

a reply to: ScepticScot
It all depends on how much the continuing UK government decide to screw you in negotiations.
Tomorrow you are voting to decide if you want to start divorce proceedings.
The divorce lawyers come in on Friday if it is a yes vote. That is when it will get messy, and you know what, the UK media will paint the Scottish demands as unfair then the UK population will suck it up and support whatever fierce negotiating is going on.

Scotland will be screwed by the UK way more after independence than it has been while in the Union. That is what foreign countries do. Doesn't really affect me though, I live under the jusidiction of the more powerful party in the divorce, and I want the best for my country over any other, including Scotland if it leaves the family.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Soloprotocol
Who the actual feck refers to themself as a person of distinction?

A Fannybawz.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ScepticScot
It all depends on how much the continuing UK government decide to screw you in negotiations.
Tomorrow you are voting to decide if you want to start divorce proceedings.
The divorce lawyers come in on Friday if it is a yes vote. That is when it will get messy, and you know what, the UK media will paint the Scottish demands as unfair then the UK population will suck it up and support whatever fierce negotiating is going on.

Scotland will be screwed by the UK way more after independence than it has been while in the Union. That is what foreign countries do. Doesn't really affect me though, I live under the jusidiction of the more powerful party in the divorce, and I want the best for my country over any other, including Scotland if it leaves the family.

Yeah but we've always been Englands little Bitch, and you know what happens in a divorce dont you...The house gets shared equally, The woman gets the inside of the house, The guy gets the outside.

a reply to: grainofsand
Far from convinced that rUK will hold all the aces.
Debt share
Trident
Security council seat
Balance of payments
Lots of cards for Scotland to play.
However as I have continually said it is in both nations interest for there to be friendly negotiations.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
That's 5 of you in here having a go at me..
5-1....What is it, Do you all feel more secure in a group?... safety in Numbers maybe?... Hunting in Packs now.?

Two "members" are now following me from thread to thread like a couple of prepubecent groupies after One Direction.

Must have ruffled a few feathers with the mention of Oil..or the lack of it for that matter...

Tick Tock, Tick Tock...

Perhaps this is because there are more people in here with sense to speak up against the preposterous Idea of holding a referendum on something based upon emotion as opposed to raw hard facts!

Here are a few FACTS that you may want to mull over.

FACT.... If Independent NO financial support from the rest of the UK PERIOD.
FACT.... No Financial plan is in place for Scotland's independent future.
FACT.... 9 out of 10 people in Scotland are on State paid benefits of one description or another.
FACT.... An independent Scotland would no longer have access to the NHS.
FACT.... Scotland would have to take it's share of the national debt £100 billion.
FACT.... Scotland will not be able to keep the pound Sterling as it's currency
FACT.... Scotland at present has no current Currency Plans post independents
FACT.... Property Prices will crash in Scotland post independent, leaving millions with negative equity
FACT.... Border control restriction on immigration as a truly Independent Scotland would not be part of the EU
FACT.... Big businesses and banks have already stood up and said they will leave Scotland on a yes verdict

How can you honestly vote yes under those conditions?

Korg.

Fact is most of those facts are in your head or you are just regurgitating the same pro Union scary stories..
1. we wont need financial support from rUK
2.Yes it is.
3.9 out of 10 ??? ok i'll go with it for the moment. Maybe if the minimum wage was higher 9 out of 10 people wouldn't need government monthly bailouts outs to pay the bills...I'm no expert but i guess the Welfare bill for the UK would be higher per head than Scotland...you can rent a 2 bed house here for less than £70...in London you couldn't rent a 3'x3' bin shed for that.
4, BS...The NHS will be still in the hands of the people here in Scotland..Englands NHS looks like it wont last a decade.
5. And that we will...8%, but remember we also get 8% of all UK assets both here and abroad. if Oil prices stay as around the hundred a barrel we could in theory wipe out £100 million out in 7/8 years... your grandchildren will still be paying your share (£1.3 Trillion) off.
6.Yes we will. rUK will be in a worse state than us if we dont share a currency....Ireland shared a currency for decades after independence. there was a reason for that...The reasons are clear.
7.see above
8. Property value rise and fall all the time...no more so than these last 6 years under Westminster rule
9. and the borders are secure just now... Westminster and England in particular couldn't keep hens out of a close
10.The only Banks that will be leaving Scotland after a independence vote are Foodbanks...if big Business wants to leave, Bigger Business will fill more than willing to fill the gap...there will be plenty big money men and women all over the world sitting counting their cash right now watching this very closely..

And that's what i think of your so called FACTS...

I am absolutely flabbergasted that you could think the above....

If you and all the other yes people think that then you are all going to the cliffs like lemmings! I urge you please stop and take the time to even Google any of the FACTS I pointed out... they are all accurate!

Don't Drink that Glass of Clear LIQUID!

Korg.

You came here with your so called Facts... now back them up with cold hard facts.

What is so hard about using google??

Try reading these....

Scottish independence: NHS in Scotland 'faces £400m funding gap'

Independent Scotland would need £100bn to avoid recession, UBS warns

Scotland analysis: Assessment of a sterling currency union

An independent Scotland and economic realities of size on global stage

Government spending on benefits and state pensions in Scotland: current patterns and future issues

Tartan exodus: Over a third of big businesses warn they will leave Scotland if Salmond wins independence vote

UK immigration policy is punishing Britons with non-EU spouses

Scottish independence, UK dependency

Independent Scotland at risk from bank crash

House prices could fall by £30,000 if Scotland votes for independence with referendum set to cause market chaos

Of course you will come back with saying something like fear mongering or some such like comment...

I ask you to ask yourself if there are any reasons to doubt the above... just using facts not your feelings....

Korg.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
I doubt that.
No representation in the UN.
No representation in the EU.
No representation in NATO.
No official 'National' membership of any international bodies of worth.
No currency, and the refusal of the UK to allow the Bank of England to be lender of last resort for Scotland.
No real defence forces.

Basically just a weaker, smaller nation trying to negotiate with the vastly more powerful Union it decided to leave.
It will be absolutely ruthless, and although I hope you don't leave the Union, if you do, I shall enjoy robust debate here with you while Scotland gets totally screwed in the divorce deal.
It will wipe the gloating smile about oil off your face, and for entertainment alone I shall of course take the piss that you picked the wrong horse in the race.

a reply to: grainofsand
What a bitter bitter post. Has the dog just died or the wife been shagging the postman?my reasons for voting yes are based on the need for democratic change however hate filled posts like that make me realise it is the right emotional decision as well.
Just remember if uk takes all the goodies it also takes all the debt.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: grainofsand
Far from convinced that rUK will hold all the aces.
Debt share
Trident
Security council seat
Balance of payments
Lots of cards for Scotland to play.
However as I have continually said it is in both nations interest for there to be friendly negotiations.

Wait for any yes vote and you will realise that the smiles of government are replaced with knives to stab Scotland in the back.
Debt share, expect harsh negotiation.
Trident. There are plenty of UK ports who want to take it, who wouldn't want such a massive injection of money into a local community.
Security council seat - It's the UK's, not an independent Scotland. The UK only has it because of Trident and a mobile armed forces. Scotland will have neither, just rent for the site until it returns to the UK.
Balance of payments - You would lose in an economic fight as Scotland is not a member of any international financial bodies as the UK is.

If you really think it's gonna be all nice and a cup of tea with a biscuit, I look forward to debate with you as well after any yes vote. 'Told you so' will be a key messsage in my posts.

a reply to: ScepticScot
Urm, which bit are you crying hate about?
Aw, you that sensitive you invent emotion in my posted words.
I am explaining that the continuing UK will shaft an independent Scotland. As a citizen of the UK I want the best deal for us if it's legal, never mind if it disadvantages a foreign country.

I am also saying I'm looking forward to debate with 'foreign' Scots who voted yes when the negotiations begin.
I am a United Kingdom citizen, I only care about the deals and how they affect me.
That's the nature of being a foreign competing nation.

...the rest of your post I shall just dismiss as emotional silliness.

a reply to: [
post=18426423]grainofsand[/post]
Try reading back over your own posts. What kind if neighbour are you? Do you sit hopeing for misfortune to fall on you friends and family so that you can laugh at it and say I told you so.
I find it amazing that so many posters take it as a personal slight that Scotland wants to be a free democratic country in its own right. The small mindedness is just breathtaking. Would you wish similar misfortune on wales if it went independent.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: grainofsand

What a bitter bitter post. Has the dog just died or the wife been shagging the postman?my reasons for voting yes are based on the need for democratic change however hate filled posts like that make me realise it is the right emotional decision as well.

Just remember if uk takes all the goodies it also takes all the debt.

There are a few posters that display such attitudes. Sometimes there is an attempt to disguise it but it's not so easy to hide. So far it always seems to emerge from the better together supporters. I could be biased. Are those the types that we are better together with...

a reply to: midicon
Even if I thought that we really were too wee , too poor , too stupid as they like to make out I would still now vote yes to get away from the smug, ill-informed bitter little men who seem to make up too much of the no campaign and supporters.
I am no nationalist and a well run and positive better together campaign may have persuaded me to vote no, instead it has convinced me more Tha anything that independence is the only solution.

a reply to: ScepticScot
Calm down dear, have a cup of tea.
Are you blind to the gloats of your Scottish mates in this and other threads when it comes to oil.
All the silly 'tic tock, tic tock' business, then expecting me to cry tears when the continuing UK government screws the best deal for my country.
Nope, if you choose to leave and the negotiations are tough for a weaker independent Scotland then tough luck, that is the nature of competing foreign nations.
...most of the continuing UK will support whatever it's government wants when the lawyers come in on Friday and the media spin it as 'right for Britain' and all the rest of it.
It will be extremely harsh, and after all the anti-UK sentiment, I am hardly going to support the UK bending over and giving up a fight in negotiations.

Nope, the entire opposite, even if it's down to shady sweet deals for the Shetlands to get some of that oil revenue.
Foreign nation equals foreign nation. Stop imagining we'll be best mates (politically) in any short period after a yes vote...it will get worse, and I live on the stronger team so no scaremongering from me, I'll reap the benefits of the UK's more powerful bargaining hand.

a reply to: grainofsand
Have seen a hundred times more anti Scots sentiments than anti English or uk.
The plan b thread was a obvious dig at the constant no plan b for currency meme from the no campaign.
We will see in the months to come weather the rUK team try and implode both countries economies or if they realise it is about mutual benefit and cooperation.

a reply to: ScepticScot
I guarantee it will be 'gloves off' after a yes vote and the 'divorce lawyers' show their teeth. The UK government will be ruthless in all negotiations, absolutely ruthless, along with the UK media to convince the masses.

...and yes, I will enjoy the debate with some of the more smug and self-assured yes voters here on ATS when Scotland gets proper screwed in the deals later. I enjoy all debate, especially when I can say 'I told you so' to previous gloating Scots members 'tick-tocking' about how the UK is losing the oil. We'll see I guess.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ScepticScot
I guarantee it will be 'gloves off' after a yes vote and the 'divorce lawyers' show their teeth. The UK government will be ruthless in all negotiations, absolutely ruthless, along with the UK media to convince the masses.

...and yes, I will enjoy the debate with some of the more smug and self-assured yes voters here on ATS when Scotland gets proper screwed in the deals later. I enjoy all debate, especially when I can say 'I told you so' to previous gloating Scots members 'tick-tocking' about how the UK is losing the oil. We'll see I guess.

I predict an attempt of a mass movement of people across the boarder into England in the event of a Yes Verdict. people will be putting their properties up for sale in their droves.... only there won't be anyone to buy them......

This will cause house prices to tumble in the desperate attempt to leave Scotland prior to the cut off.

As a result it will fuel the housing market in England which will see a healthy equity increase over the next 3-5 years.

Korg.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ScepticScot
I guarantee it will be 'gloves off' after a yes vote and the 'divorce lawyers' show their teeth. The UK government will be ruthless in all negotiations, absolutely ruthless, along with the UK media to convince the masses.

...and yes, I will enjoy the debate with some of the more smug and self-assured yes voters here on ATS when Scotland gets proper screwed in the deals later. I enjoy all debate, especially when I can say 'I told you so' to previous gloating Scots members 'tick-tocking' about how the UK is losing the oil. We'll see I guess.

What, this TICK TOCK.....never seen a man get so upset over 2 Vowels and 6 consonants..Never go on Countdown Man...Staaaay away from the countdown.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ScepticScot
I guarantee it will be 'gloves off' after a yes vote and the 'divorce lawyers' show their teeth. The UK government will be ruthless in all negotiations, absolutely ruthless, along with the UK media to convince the masses.

...and yes, I will enjoy the debate with some of the more smug and self-assured yes voters here on ATS when Scotland gets proper screwed in the deals later. I enjoy all debate, especially when I can say 'I told you so' to previous gloating Scots members 'tick-tocking' about how the UK is losing the oil. We'll see I guess.

What, this TICK TOCK.....never seen a man get so upset over 2 Vowels and 6 consonants..Never go on Countdown Man...Staaaay away from the countdown.

It's Childish and annoying.

Stick to the debate or be gone.

I also noticed that you neglected to respond to the sources I posed further up this page.

Korg.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: nonspecific

If they had no army then they would remove themselves from the conflicts of the world and would eliminate the possibility of external terrorist threats.

If they had no army they would become an ideal "soft target" for terrorists who just don't like Europeans and non-Muslims very much. (What has Belgium done to deserve an IS attack on its territory?)

As for an army, there are probably Scottish regiments-- traditionally some of Britain's finest-- that would choose to remain with Scotland. (One of the countless messy details that will bubble up in the next two days.)

Attacks on Scotland could take place for this reason.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Five thousand troops were involved in the action close to the notorious "triangle of death" south of Baghdad, where the Black Watch troops were sent from Basra at America's request.

The troops were moved up from their regular base in Basra primarily to block off insurgents' supply and escape routes during the American attack on Fallujah.

Who benefits from warmongering apart from a few filthy rich, mentally decrepit scum?