Do Democrats Break More Laws?

a reply to: butcherguy

I realized the while alcohol vs pot thing years ago. Alcohol let's people vent their frustrations at our cruel world and come back to work in the morning with nothing more than a hangover. Any deaths or serious injuries are worth it because most people "drink responsibly" which generally means only getting wasted if you can assure the negative results will be localized and mostly self destructive.

Most people who smoke pot realize that 99% of the problems are externally imposed. If it was legal almost every pothead I know would only be guilty of being happy and minimally productive. That's the whole point : PRODUCTIVITY. Pot lowers productivity and motivation while raising happiness and lowering stress. In other words it does what all the anti depressants and similar medications so with minimal side effects to adults with proper modern procedures of smoking.

Happiness is supposed to correlate with productivity even though we've had research for years showing it doesn't. Sorry, it does to a point. Capitalist ideas and systems are the most efficient way to pull a country out of poverty. Once a threshold is reached where most people basis needs are met it has diminishing and often negative returns. Thus the major problems in the developed world despite having more material security and luxury goods in the real sense than any humans in history. Pot won't take down the system but it would make things harder for those in charge to keep us doing menial work.

What I have learned is, as a general thing, democrats don't go around starting half of the crap republicans do. Both sides blow things out of proportion, but I feel the right practices such a thing more frequently. I mean think of what republicans have been spewing since the first day Obama took office, "outing" him and his illegal ways, yet time has shown that all this crap that was stirred up, for the most part, was unfounded republican rhetoric. I don't see the dems doing that at the highest levels. Probably because they have more sense. And yes, I firmly believe that the majority of republicans have no sense. They say not to dwell on the illegal actions of Bush because they're in the past. Obviously there are many things wrong with such a view and I won't even get into it. I think that if the democrats were as vindictive as the republicans, then Bush would have been prosecuted for what has been proven to be lies to start a war. That seems like a pretty big deal to me. So the right has no right to claim that Obama should be punished for his "illegal" actions.

Think about how the republicans attacked Clinton. His actions were not illegal to my knowledge, but obviously what he did had no bearing on how he ran the government. He did a darn good job of it from an economics point of view, so whatever he was doing was working. But the right pushed for impeachment. Yet when a republican leader does far worse, something that is both illegal and immoral, not one of them makes a peep. Therefore the right cannot get on its high horse and claim it is about doing the right thing, yada yada. Because we all know the truth.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: SM2

Considering how wrong the op was I have to assume you watch the same media so you would be wrong as well, lets look and see shall we?

Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) Married Senator and vocal critic of Clinton's affair, pled guilty to disorderly conduct in a Minneapolis airport men's room, after having been arrested on a charge of homosexual lewd conduct.(2007)

Bill Janklow (R-SD) convicted of second-degree manslaughter for running a stop sign and killing a motorcyclist. Resigned from the House and given 100 days in the county jail and three years probation.

Mel Reynolds (D-IL) was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. (1997) Was later convicted of 12 counts of bank fraud. (1999)

Michael Myers (D-Pennsylvania) Received suspended six-month jail term after pleading no contest to disorderly conduct charged stemming from an incident at a Virginia bar in which he allegedly attacked a hotel security guard and a cashier.

J. Irving Whalley (R-Pennsylvania) Received suspended three-year sentence and fined $11,000 in 1973 for using mails to deposit staff salary kickbacks and threatening an employee to prevent her from giving information to the FBI.

The list didn't include bribery, fraud, obstruction, or any white collar crime.
wiki

Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and John Boehnor have not been charged nor convicted of any crime.

Well, using the link you provided , i counted up the charges back to the Carter adminstration, 30 of the 46 convicted persons were democrats. several were repeat offenders and yes the list does contain fraud, racketeering, bribery, mail fraud, tax evasion, etc, you might to look at the list again.

Both sides are dirty. Both sides are corrupt. Both sides break laws.

Whenever I go into a voting booth and see (D) or (R) I always think to myself:

I hope they both lose.

.... maybe except Sandovol. I like Sandovol.

Who and what they were convicted for from present back to 1993

a reply to: SM2
Republicans:

1 Mike Crapo (R-ID) DWI
2 Rick Renzi (R-AZ) wire fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes
3 Trey Radel (R-FL) coc aine possession
4 Samuel B. Kent (R) Fed Judge sexual harassment
5 Vito Fossella (R-NY) DWI
6 Bob Ney (R-OH) conspiracy
7 Larry Craig (R-ID) homosexual lewd conduct
8 Duke Cunningham (R-CA) bribery, tax fraud and other crimes
9 Bill Janklow (R-SD) second degree murder
the above is from 2001
Below 1993-2001
10 Newt Gingrich (R-GA) guilty of House Ethics violations
11 Wes Cooley (R-OR) lied about army service
12 Buz Lukens (R-Ohio) bribery and conspiracy
13 Jay Kim (R-CA) campaign related

Democrats:

1 Jesse Jackson, Jr. (D-IL) wire mail fraud, misuse of campaign contributions
2 Thomas Porteous (D) bribery
3 William J. Jefferson (D-LA) bribery
4 Frank Ballance (D-NC) money laundering, mail fraud
5 Jim Traficant (D-OH) financial corruption
the above is from 2001
Below 1993-2001
6 Mel Reynolds (D-IL) 12 counts sexual assault, child photography and bank fraud
7 Walter R. Tucker III (D-CA) extortion and tax evasion
8 Austin Murphy (D-PA) lying on absentee ballots
9 Carl C. Perkins (D-Ky) check kiting
10 Carroll Hubbard (D-Ky) campaign related
11 Mary Rose Oakar (D-Ohio) campaign related
12 Walter Fauntroy (D-DC) false disclosure forms
13 Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) mail fraud
14 Joe Kolter (D-PA) conspiracy

some one else can do the list further.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Looks like Democrat activities are more financial corruption.

More "Rum in the Punch".

99.9% of radical environmentalist of the Earth First and Earth Liberation Front are democrats and both groups have been classified at one time as the top "domestic terror" threat in the United States by the FBI.

85% of there targets have been republicians or companies that supported the right wing.

70+% of crazy old ladies that call the cops to report there neighbors for every petty thing are also democrats.

Many black and Hispanic criminals are also democrats and support gun control.(wonder why)
Luckly many are unable to vote because they are felons.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You are delusional like most right wingers if you think dems break MORE laws.

Just while we're having this discussion I would like someone to please explain what illegal things Bush did while in office, because I keep hearing it without a single example being shown. Illegal war? He got all the approvals he needed legally, unlike what Obama has been doing here lately. Just trying to figure out what you guys are referencing.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I think that most politicians, be they republican or democrat, feel that they are above the law and therefore not subject to the same standards that we have to live by.

I also think we are seeing it now because the democrats know they have a "get out of jail free" card with a democrat in the White House.

Great point! With Obama and Holder, I'm sure they wouldn't see any conviction. Probably the same if the rep/dem were reversed.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: LDragonFire

Looks like Democrat activities are more financial corruption.

More "Rum in the Punch".

They are our fearless leaders all of them, is there a difference?

Getting back here, I'd like to address some questions and inaccurate observations.

First...I'm all in favor of legalizing pot. Alcohol is much worse and in the end, illegal pot is more of a problem than legalizing it. But, it is currently illegal at a federal level and since most people who want it legalized are dems...I believe my point stands.

Second...there were many references to laws and that was my fault. I should have said laws, rules and American morals. I was also referring to people breaking laws, not that they had to be convicted. Illegal entry into the US is...illegal. Pot too and targeting groups or people is also.

Third...and I can't say this often enough. I'm sick of this government both right, left and middle. It needs to be torn down and re-designed from scratch. It is too big and corrupt to change anything piece by piece. And yes...reps are just as bad as dems. BUT...I still see more of our laws, rules, etc. being broken by dems. There are great examples in this thread, mostly from others. I watch Fox, MSNBC, CNN and many varied internet news sources. Then...I make my own decisions of right and wrong from the facts they all present. Not that I'm always correct...but I do listen to both sides. Personally I side with what I consider the lesser of two evils...the one not trying to change the USA into something it hasn't been since day one. To me, when you hate both of your choices...go with the one that does the least damage.

" Do Democrats Break More Laws? "

I bet non-elected Democrat voters and supporters and workers do.

It's not just the politicians !!

originally posted by: xuenchen
" Do Democrats Break More Laws? "

I bet non-elected Democrat voters and supporters and workers do.

It's not just the politicians !!

Could this be the real reason for the war on drugs and drug testing? Attempting to legislate there belief? Conform to our conservative christian society or good luck getting a job? Do you think our largest prison population on the planet has something to do with the laws republicans have passed in the last 27 years they held the presidency compared to the 18 years democrats have served the presidency since Nixon? You think that the large prison population was by design to target the left?

hmmm

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The dems aren't the majority party... What are you talking about????

The dems only control the Senate and the WH...They are NOT the majority party by far...

Jaden

There's one main difference and that's openly wishing to negate the freedom of the US citizen...

This is the difference between repubs and dem politicians.

Repubs 1) Want to take control over people covertly through monopolistic control of commerce.

Dems 2) Want to take control over people overtly by SAYING they want to control all aspects of our lives and take away all modicums of freedom by giving control to the state.

Here's where I stand. Force government to do what they are supposed to do. Use incentive and the authority already granted to them by the people to influence commerce and enforce the laws that they have been given the authority by the people through the constitution to enforce.

If they want to lessen the power of corporations and corporate control of commerce. Influence commerce with the powers that they have been given. Offer incentives to small business that are sole proprietorships or partnerships and not corporations.

Implement import tariffs against corporations manufacturing overseas to reduce costs so that there isn't incentive to go where they can pay 50 cents an hour for cheap labor.

Incentivize apprenticeships and other real world training that affect the ability for the american to become a valued worker that EARNS higher pay, don't try to mandate higher pay.

McDonald's workers should largely be students and temporary workers not someone trying to support themselves and their families. If you want to support your family, get a skill that demands higher pay, don't attempt to demand higher pay for no skill.

So the other difference is that Dems want to appeal to people's emotions and sensibilities and Republicans want to appeal to people's logic and greed.

I don't like either of those solutions.

I want to support small businesses ran by more people so that more people can be successful and local communities are supported from within as opposed to lining the pockets and consolidating more wealth in the hands of fewer..

You cannot successfully do that through coercion or force though. It has to be through incentive.

Jaden

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Who and what they were convicted for from present back to 1993

a reply to: SM2
Republicans:

1 Mike Crapo (R-ID) DWI
2 Rick Renzi (R-AZ) wire fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes
3 Trey Radel (R-FL) coc aine possession
4 Samuel B. Kent (R) Fed Judge sexual harassment
5 Vito Fossella (R-NY) DWI
6 Bob Ney (R-OH) conspiracy
7 Larry Craig (R-ID) homosexual lewd conduct
8 Duke Cunningham (R-CA) bribery, tax fraud and other crimes
9 Bill Janklow (R-SD) second degree murder
the above is from 2001
Below 1993-2001
10 Newt Gingrich (R-GA) guilty of House Ethics violations
11 Wes Cooley (R-OR) lied about army service
12 Buz Lukens (R-Ohio) bribery and conspiracy
13 Jay Kim (R-CA) campaign related

Democrats:

1 Jesse Jackson, Jr. (D-IL) wire mail fraud, misuse of campaign contributions
2 Thomas Porteous (D) bribery
3 William J. Jefferson (D-LA) bribery
4 Frank Ballance (D-NC) money laundering, mail fraud
5 Jim Traficant (D-OH) financial corruption
the above is from 2001
Below 1993-2001
6 Mel Reynolds (D-IL) 12 counts sexual assault, child photography and bank fraud
7 Walter R. Tucker III (D-CA) extortion and tax evasion
8 Austin Murphy (D-PA) lying on absentee ballots
9 Carl C. Perkins (D-Ky) check kiting
10 Carroll Hubbard (D-Ky) campaign related
11 Mary Rose Oakar (D-Ohio) campaign related
12 Walter Fauntroy (D-DC) false disclosure forms
13 Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) mail fraud
14 Joe Kolter (D-PA) conspiracy

some one else can do the list further.

ok, Newt Gingrich was not convicted in a court, he plead guilty in the house. If that were to count, then we could also count Clinton and his impeachment. so here is back a little further.....specifically back to Carter's first term, and these are all just the federal congress and senators, not including judges, presidents, attorney generals etc

republicans

14 Richard Kelly Corruption, accepting a bribe, connected to the Abscam scandal, 13 months in prison
15 Pat Swindall 6 counts of perjury
16 George V. Hansen 15 months in prison, censured for failure to complete disclosure forms


this plus the ones your already listed cover the republicans convicted in that time.

Dems


15 Nicholas Mavroules Extortion, accepting illegal gifts and refusing to report them,15 counts, 15 months in prison

16 Albert Bustamante convicted of accepting bribes

17 Harrison A Williams Abscam, 9 counts of bribery&conspiracy, 3 years in prison

18 John Jenrette Abscam, bribery and conspiracy, 2 years in prison

19 Raymond Lederer accpeting bribes “I can give you me” 3 years in prison

20 michael Myers Abscam, 3 years prison , accepting bribes

21 Frank Thompson Abscam, 3 years in prison

22 john m. murphey abscam, 3 years in prison

23 Frederick W Richmond Tax Evasion and possession of marijuana, 9 months prison

24 Dan Flood Bribery , one years probation

25 Joshua Eilberg conflict of interest charges, convinced carter to fire the U.S attorney investigating his case

26 Fred Richmond tax fraud, possession of marijuana 9 months in prison. Charges of soliciting sex from a 16 year old boy were dropped when he agreed to seek therapy


27 Charles Diggs 29 counts mail fraud, filig false payroll forms which formed a kickback scheme. 3 years prison

28 michael Myers he is charged yet again, this time, Suspended 6 month jail term for disorderly conduct
after he attacked a hotel security guard and cashier

29 Frank M Clark tax evasion and mail fraud, 2 years in prison

30 Richard Tonry receiving illegal campaign contributions

both left twix and right twix break as many laws as they can without creating too much noise. no matter the label, they will do anything for more power or money, throwing the ones who supported them under the bus. They're all basically criminals in the highest rungs of government, our media just cushions it with fluff.

Virginia Republican governor Bob McDonnell (2010-2014) was recently convicted of graft and corruption in office. Not so much as even a mention here on ATS, and certainly not on right wing media networks like Fox. There goes your theory it's only Dems.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Legalize pot is more heavily supported by the left

The key word there is legalized. That isn't breaking the law but if you want an example where drugs and illegal actions from our government were combined just look back to the Iran Contra affair where tons of coc aine were flown into the United States on the public dollar and after the fact recordings surfaced that Reagan not only knew but gave the go ahead and with that money arms were bought then delivered not only that the funds also supported groups down in Central America that were slaughtering thousands.


Try not to have such a short/selective memory about these things.