It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So does Hebrews 10;31 say and so it is in reality.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Consider this a warning for those for whom it was necessary to be warned.

a reply to: Trapeze

This solves nothing and will only instigate more hate. You, yourself are trampling on the Word of God by saying such ignorant things.

a reply to: Aedaeum

I see where you come from. Why must it be this way?

a reply to: Trapeze
It would be good to add your own explanation of what the passage is saying and why the writer thinks it needs to be said.
For example, it's worth observing that he's talking specifically to those who have turned to God and then abandon the faith, the idea being that they have turned away from God more consciously than people who have never known him.

a reply to: DISRAELI

No offense DISRAELI, I find the quote to be self-explanatory and free of judgement.

a reply to: Trapeze
Yes, it's self-explanatory for those who read with good-will and understand the background.
But if you're trying to present some teaching to a wider readership (which is a good thing to do) a little explanation smooths the way and helps to prevent misunderstanding.
There's a lot to be said for "tempering the wind to the shorn lamb" and offering an unfamiliar (to many) message in language which people can understand.

P.S. No offence taken. As my six-year old self once said, "Im being helptual".

Well considering the *Angel* or *divine* one who carries the keys of Death and Hades in the book of revilations.

The Term *living one* is synomynous with *Living Image* or *Living statue* *Living rock* Such and such.
I could flat out say what this means but it would ruin the mystery of it all.

Anyways. The mention of fire and the underworld is identical to the Egyptian afterlife punishment.
Where Ammit reprisents the second Death.
This is where the mythology of Hellhounds are developed further upon greek and finally roman cultures.

John gets all of these ideas from references in the old testament such as Job 38:17
Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?

1 Samuel 2:6
"The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

Its obvious that the Jewish and Christian MAIN gods are Gods of the Underworld.
You can't have the keys to Hades and to Death without being the deitie reflecting in these qualities.
Just, Christianity and the jewish faith take it all with benevolence. Rather than Evil.
The Main idea trying to be convayed here is if you screw up. Your not just dealing with the Creator of humanity and Earth.
You are Dealing with a Death god that can Lock you away through the method of the total annihlation through the Second Death.

Weither its all literal or not. Hell may or may not be a place. It may just be the cause and effect of a soul being fully devoured such as the Anology of Ammit, the consumer of Damn souls which acts as the lake of burning fire.

I am seeing a much more badass story here than what the flock of sheep seem to believe.

17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

1 Samuel 2:6
"The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Ect ect.

a reply to: Trapeze

---There was an eventual point to what he was saying. In the previous order of things (old testament), the accuser and adversary of mankind would hold a person up to his sins and force that person to be scattered across the nations (Sea). Check the very first verses of 1 Corinthians 10. They were under a cloud (amnesia). Each rebirth in the water (baptism) caused the person to restart. The Lord of Hosts is the judge of this process. The verses you are quoting is Paul's reminder of this circumstance. ONE sin caused a person to be reborn, or in some cases, punished in the underworld.

---Here is a quote from Hebrews 11:

35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

---Faith makes us perfect. NONE OF THEM RECEIVED WHAT WAS PROMISED. God planned something better for them. What is that plan? Justification from faith and not works. The ENTIRE context is necessary, not just a part. What you quote is merely a reminder of what would have happened if the Lord of Hosts decided the fate. His decision is rendered null with Christ. Christ is the advocate for those who have faith.

Back to Hebrews 10 and the entire point. We now have an advocate who conquered Hell for us.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,

“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”

38 And,

“But my righteous[g] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

---Faith, not works, saves now. Christ is the Redeemer.

a reply to: Trapeze

1 John 4:18 Perfect love casts out fear and God IS Love.

a reply to: AlephBet

My goodness... Paul backed up by Pseudo-Paul.... and not a word from the gospels

How does Faith make you perfect?

Better yet how does Faith "save" you from anything?

a reply to: AnuTyr

1 Samuel 2:6
"The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Ect ect.

Fantastic answer. Christ came to point the way to baptism, or renewal of the soul in the water. Why? To rule above and below, ending the cycle of rebirth once and for all. Death hath no more dominion. This is Elijah preparing the way. Christ is the righteous judge.

I also have this to add. This whole passage in 1 Peter tells so much about what is happening right now and for the last 2000 years of refinement.

1 Peter 3

8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10 For,

“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11 They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[a]

13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear their threats; do not be frightened.”[c] 15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17 For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.

---THE MOST IMPORTANT PART

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Great answer.

a reply to: Akragon

My my, Jimmy rotten. Why aren't you banned already?

a reply to: Trapeze

Because I follow the rules and make more sense then most Christians do around here...

Love Paul eh... Good luck with that

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AlephBet

My goodness... Paul backed up by Pseudo-Paul.... and not a word from the gospels

How does Faith make you perfect?

Better yet how does Faith "save" you from anything?

Are you the savior? Perhaps you bear the cup of Christ and do that work. No. I don't either. I am not the savior. No man can save himself, thus the need for faith. Paul has it right, otherwise, you are your savior by works.

Matthew 11:28

Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy–laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My load is light.

Earlier, when he speaks of taking up the cross and following, he is referring to the difference between taking and the will of the Father to give and receive. Thieves take and the cross can only give. The word sin (that which separates) is missing the mark (CHET in Hebrew). The mark to hit is taking the name of Christ in faith, which is giving. It's all in the flipping of will. Faith requires only one thing: Face the right direction. Give and do not take.

The gift that follows flows from the suffering we do for others when we give instead of take. That's it. Simple. That was the message of the cross. Take up suffering by giving.

Paul then preaches that message of faith, which is not by works or sacrifice, but by simply giving to others. The only requirement of the Gospel is to have faith (are faithful).

Giving requires:

Charity, forgiving others (even enemies), removal of judgment (which takes from others) and the list goes on. This is not our work. Developing faith is the Father's work in the Son to prepare us to meet the Son.

John 6

For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

The Father must enable them.

And also in John 2

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

He already knew us from before, when he was the Lord of the OT. The work of faith is in the SON and not us. We are the Son of God (Body of Christ). You still have not realized this point yet. The only work to be done is in the Son. We, who are many, are the ONE loaf. It's us that faith works toward salvation.

Are there many who have no faith? Yes. Separate from the body. Who must first forgive his enemies? The Son of God. Who must do good to those who persecute him? First, the Son of God (LORD). Until he does, we are here with him as an image below (shadow). Not until the Son of God follows this path will we. Faith is the hope the body follows the head.

The only way for it to happen is when the head follows first. We are images of the original. When it changes, we change. There is NO salvation until the Son of God follows the Father by being prepared. True for the LORD and true for us. We are here because the image we are created from is not yet finished being formed by God. When it is, we will follow in salvation. Not our work until we are remade in the image of the original. The original is still being formed.

a reply to: AlephBet

Now that is an answer I can respect... but still giving is an act... a work of the spirit

So is (for)giving... a work of the spirit...

Faith requires action or it is nothing more then words... Thus Faith alone is nothing without action...

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

originally posted by: Trapeze
a reply to: Akragon

My my, Jimmy rotten. Why aren't you banned already?

You don't ememate love and acceptance. I guess your religion doesn't need those two qualities - or would it be fair to say you aren't a good representation of it?

I just don't understand.

I really don't understand.

Is this a warning? Some kind of warning? Like a warning before being crucified,beheaded or the rapture/final death?

wow... religion scares me. Religious People scare me...

yanno the religious ones that are killing people in the name of religion... for example...the latest murder of Haines... is the guy that killed him... the living god?

a reply to: Akragon

What rules are you bound to, the rules of the dead? All you do is judging others and spewing nasty sh*t. Your day will come. See ya.

a reply to: Thurisaz

Can't even take a warning ey?

Why are all of you so quick to instigate?

I just don't understand.

I really don't understand.