Proof : Russia didn`t want to face the decision of having to intervene

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: DJW001

These cables simply are not evidence of "western" malfeasance.

This cables are not, but Nuland's cookies and secret visit of Director of CIA to Kiev
rt.com... looking highly suspicious.

Why shouldn't an American official meet with the Ukrainian government? They have mutual security issues now.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The info has been debunked.

What was debunked exactly ?

a reply to: DJW001

Why shouldn't an American official meet with the Ukrainian government? They have mutual security issues now.

Wow, just wow.

I understand why russian diplomats feel the way they feel.

with such attitude you certainly going to see D.C. in nuclear mushroom cloud.
Good luck, not so friend.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: DJW001

Why shouldn't an American official meet with the Ukrainian government? They have mutual security issues now.

Wow, just wow.

I understand why russian diplomats feel the way they feel.

What?! You mean Russia has diplomats who meet with foreign governments?!

a reply to: DJW001

CIA director is not diplomat. And he wasn't meeting with Governments. (even with illegal governments)
You are trying to point it like a walk in the park.
Listen, you are playing very dangerous games now. (Not you personally, but i imagine those in charge in USA thinking like you)

a reply to: kitzik

CIA director is not diplomat. And he wasn't meeting with Governments. (even with illegal governments)

Who better to brief high ranking government officials about illegal FSB activities?

You are trying to point it like a walk in the park.

No, I assure you the situation is very grave.

Listen, you are playing very dangerous games now. (Not you personally, but i imagine those in charge in USA thinking like you)

It is Putin who is playing the dangerous game. The entire non-Russian speaking world is thinking the same thing: if Putin is allowed to conquer Ukraine through a mixture of subversion and overt (and covert) military force, he will be tempted to try it elsewhere. Any place that has Russian speakers or some vague historical tie to the Russian Empire might suffer the same fate, from the Baltic to the Balkans, from the Caucuses to the Caspian, from Mongolia and Manchuria to the Kyrill Islands and Aleutians. Are you beginning to understand the enormity of the stakes now?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Ukraine's Choreographed Civil War, As Revealed By Wikileaks

Think the deadly events in a civil-war ridden Ukraine are proceeding unscripted, and without US supervision and/or direction? Think again. Below is an excerpt from a formerly confidential memo, leaked by Wikileaks, and authored by former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The punchline: the memo is dated February 1, 2008.

www.zerohedge.com...

That clearly puts the nail in the coffin of the Western Media rhetoric about who`s behind the whole Ukrainian mess.

Another discussion point solved !

So you believe a memo observing reality and the likely outcomes is some kind of proof that it was orchestrated? You do realize every government has think tanks to calculate the plausibility of all kinds of global and national scenarios, right?

All this memo states is what they predicted would happen, that Ukraine would want to join NATO, and that Russia would not like it. It doesn't say anything about creating that scenario, or suggest in any way that there would be a deliberate effort by "the evil West" to create a civil war.

What is wrong with people? Why can't you read basic English and comprehend it?

Look at the very first section...

Following a muted first reaction to Ukraine's intent to seek a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) at the Bucharest summit (ref A), Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat.

So you ignore the fact that UKRAINE was seeking NATO membership, and that this memo is a discussion about the consequences and likely scenarios, and you claim that this is some kind of "evidence" that the evil West planned it all along?

Pathetic.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: DJW001

The info is not hidden; in fact, the cables clearly exonerate NATO, if you bother to read them.

Reading seems to be a lost art as of late.

Reading is the easy part, but understanding it is where some have the problem.

It's incredible to see the blatant ignorance of people here, refusing to actually read the facts and seemingly unable to comprehend their own damn language. I could forgive it if this was translated from another language and there was some kind of confusion to justify the ignorance, but this is just plain stupidity of people ignoring what something ACTUALLY SAYS and translating it into something they desperately want to believe.

a reply to: BettyHill400

You`re right.

This gives the proof Russia didn`t wanted the problems in the Ukraine, and if Russia didn`t wanted the problems, they haven`t caused the problems.

But Western media and some members try to make it look like was all Putin`s fault and not the West. While the West was warned about what would happen if they started to make a Western puppet-regime in the Ukraine, they still keep and try to let it look like it was all Russia`s fault.

Funny thing though, Scotland is doing the same thing as Crimea did. They are going to vote for independence and to join the EU and NATO, because they think it will help them. Only difference, Crimea voted to join the Russian federation, and that has been used as an excuse to do a lot of Russia bashing by Western media and some ATS members.

So if Scotland actually votes yes, logic would say, we should see a lot of EU bashing going to happen in Western media and by some members. But because of the hypocrisy, I bet you won`t see that happening.

a reply to: Rocker2013

So you ignore the fact that UKRAINE was seeking NATO membership,

And you ignoring the fact that Ukraine was continuously destabilized by Western and Russian actions from 2004.
en.wikipedia.org...
In 2007 en.wikipedia.org...
In 2008 en.wikipedia.org...
and many more. It was split in their intention to join NATO with every president they overthrew
Until at last they reached civil war.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Xcathdra

The info has been debunked.

What was debunked exactly ?

Xcathdra was debunked. This is the nail-in-the-coffin post.

Soon we might have a Wikileaks cable where his user name shows up in a long list of DHS/NSA disinfo agents.

Oh wait... But noooes, only Evil Putin with RT are able to pull off disinfo agents!

...just like Pro-Russia Separatists ar the only ones capable of taking down an airliner, hey? Only those ruskies, coz you know, they are the "bad guys" and we NATO = "good guys". So did the neocons want a new Cold War? Conspiracy theory!

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

But Western media and some members try to make it look like was all Putin`s fault and not the West. While the West was warned about what would happen if they started to make a Western puppet-regime in the Ukraine, they still keep and try to let it look like it was all Russia`s fault.

Well lets just look at this shall we?

Well when you strongarm a president of a country into following what he says, that makes him at fault. Russia had installed it's own with Mr. Yanukovych, but he decided to join the EU and was about to sign before good ol Vlad gave him the ultimatum.

That ultimatum was join EU and lose Russia, or join Russia and we will give you cheap gas, which btw didn't happen.

So it seems Putin is the one who stirred the hornets nest then ran away laughing.

Only difference, Crimea voted to join the Russian federation, and that has been used as an excuse to do a lot of Russia bashing by Western media and some ATS members.

And that vote was a farce and it is not internationally recognized.

So if Scotland actually votes yes, logic would say, we should see a lot of EU bashing going to happen in Western media and by some members. But because of the hypocrisy, I bet you won`t see that happening.

Why the EU isn't going to invade Scotland and annex part of it, and that is funny a pro Russian backer talking about hypocrisy...Oh the humanity.

a reply to: DJW001

Why shouldn't an American official meet with the Ukrainian government?

Perhaps in the "parliament"?



Another "warning" from 2008:

Guys the Current Ukraine government is illegal

www.spinwatch.org...

And for the record the ousted president blamed for the killing of 80 protestors and police was innocent

Video proof shows a far right Ukraine fatherland member bringing a silenced assault rifle into the protestor zone before the killings

Secret recorded phone calls between Estonian and EU diplomat reveal the old government had nothing to do with this and the current one looked responsible and to make matters worse there is no investigation

No wonder Crimea wanted nothing to do with these monsters!

So these far right racist scum kill 80 people,blame it on the ousted president and unbelievably get a few seats of power in the cabinet! The west including my country turns a blind eye and let's them get away with murder

Guys the Current Ukraine government is illegal

www.spinwatch.org...

And for the record the ousted president blamed for the killing of 80 protestors and police was innocent

Video proof shows a far right Ukraine fatherland member bringing a silenced assault rifle into the protestor zone before the killings

Secret recorded phone calls between Estonian and EU diplomat reveal the old government had nothing to do with this and the current one looked responsible and to make matters worse there is no investigation

No wonder Crimea wanted nothing to do with these monsters!

So these far right racist scum kill 80 people,blame it on the ousted president and unbelievably get a few seats of power in the cabinet! The west including my country turns a blind eye and let's them get away with murder

Also if the ousted president was so Russian leaning why on hell did he allow operation trident from 2011?

He was another political crook,not a protestor killer and certainly not anti the west

www.eur.army.mil...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well lets just look at this shall we?

I`ve tried to look at it from your perspective, but I can`t.

I`m just not capable of doing that, it seems there are few others who can, maybe you should post towards them about it...no need to address me with things which are beyond my ability to understand...I`m not that smart in case you haven`t noticed that.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Why don't you add your usual claims to an appropriate thread. This thread is about a wikileaks document that proves Ukraine wanted to join NATO in 2008.

a reply to: DJW001

Ukraine wanted to join NATO in 2008

Sure?



Wiki(pedia) Ukraine–NATO relations

a reply to: maghun

Western Ukraine has always been significantly more pro-NATO than the rest of the country;[78][71][74] Eastern Ukraine is far more anti-NATO and pro-Russia than the rest of Ukraine.[74][79]

A Gallup poll conducted in October 2008 showed that 45% of Ukrainians associated NATO as a threat to their country, while only 15% associated it with protection.[80] A November 2009 poll by Ukrainian Project System relieved 40.1% of Ukrainians polled said the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) was the best global security group for Ukraine to be a part of and 33.9% of the respondents supported Ukraine's full membership in CSTO; more than 36% of the respondents of the poll said that Ukraine should remain neutral and only 12.5% supported Ukraine's accession to NATO.[69] A 2009 Gallup poll showed that 40% of Ukrainian adults associate NATO with "Threat" and 17% with "Protection".[18] According to a poll by Razumkov Center in March 2011 20.6% on average across Ukraine considered NATO a threat; this number was 51% in Crimea.[81] A 2013 Gallup poll showed that 29% associated NATO with "Threat" and 17% with "Protection"; 44% viewed it as neither.[79]

Your own source.

In other words, the average Ukrainian knows better than to give a straight answer to a politically charged question.