Pennsylvania mother who gave daughter abortion pill gets prison

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

The FACT is, a man cannot carry and birth a baby any more than a woman can produce sperm. Childbirth is something ONLY a woman can do. It's not your choice. It's biology. Sorry.

True, but we can stock up on frozen sperm. Live men not required

FROZEN SPERM EFFECTIVE AS FRESH WHEN TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM TESTICLE.
www.bionews.org.uk...

a reply to: Annee

Men can use frozen eggs, too... Problem is, what's he going to do with it once he fertilized it?

I think we lost our discussion partner! LOL

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Put it in a pig...They're working on doing cross species fetus growth...

Interspecific pregnancy

Potential applications
Potential applications include pigs carrying human fetuses to term as a potential yet ethically controversial alternative to surrogate mothers or artificial uteri for gay male couples[2] or mothers with damaged uteri. It would also provide a sober, drug-free and nonsmoking carrier.[2] For animals, it could be a valuable tool in preservation programs of endangered species, providing a method of ex-situ conservation.[3][4] It could also avail for recreation of extinct species.

Jaden

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Put it in a pig...They're working on doing cross species fetus growth...

Actually, I have read science believes they are close to an artificial womb, and there are surrogates. Haven't heard of the pig version. (I read a lot)

Me and BH were just joking around.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Annee

Men can use frozen eggs, too... Problem is, what's he going to do with it once he fertilized it?

Artificial wombs come to mind. At least they won't be hormonal, emotional clusterf**ks that are prone to changing their minds and acting vindictively.

One day you'll all have to cough up your eggs at birth and you'll never have to worry about the horrible burden of pregnancy.

originally posted by: Bone75
At least they won't be hormonal, emotional clusterf**ks that are prone to changing their minds and acting vindictively.

Or, claiming: "Not mine, and splitting to parts unknown".

---------------

Completely off topic note: Damn the Goodyear blimp is noisy when it "flies" over your house. Especially when you live only a couple miles from where it docks, 'cuz it's really low

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Iamthatbish

Am I in charge of my reproduction?

do you put yourself in charge ?

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: Annee
Idk ... I was just very surprised to see plan B at CVS, at a price of $49.99!! For one pill?! Certainly insurance doesn't pay that does it?

You know what really made me feel uncomfortable when visiting America? CVS sells gallon bottles of liquor as well as birth control pills.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: Annee
Idk ... I was just very surprised to see plan B at CVS, at a price of $49.99!! For one pill?! Certainly insurance doesn't pay that does it?

You know what really made me feel uncomfortable when visiting America? CVS sells gallon bottles of liquor as well as birth control pills.

LOL, yes they do.

I don't know why they still call these places pharmacies.

originally posted by: Bone75
Artificial wombs come to mind.

I'm all for that! I think men should have the option of having babies, too, if science can figure it out. I'm not sure I'd go the pig route, but I fully support in vitro fertilization and going on from there. (I also support the "male abortion", by the way.)

At least they won't be hormonal, emotional clusterf**ks that are prone to changing their minds and acting vindictively.

And you can't find a woman to bear your child? Imagine that! LOL! Annee and I were just messing with you. Sorry if your feelers got hurt. I understand you being emotional about this, though.

One day you'll all have to cough up your eggs at birth and you'll never have to worry about the horrible burden of pregnancy.

I can't imagine why that would happen... Will men be coughing up their sperm, too?

Listen, honey, I was pregnant exactly once. It was the happiest time of my life! The father was the man I eventually married and it all seemed to be coming together, because I wanted a baby more than anything! I had a living being growing inside me! Made with the man I adore! On my ultrasound appointment, I heard its heartbeat. The most incredible thing I could imagine... But that's where the joy ended. We found that it had attached to the lining of my tube and would have to be removed, as it would eventually die and would probably kill me, if allowed to grow. I had to make a very painful choice. I was told that any future pregnancy would result in the same thing, because my tubes were blocked and an egg wouldn't be able to move into the uterus. I would never bear a child.

So, assuming that I think pregnancy is a "horrible burden" couldn't be further from the truth. Under different circumstances, I would never have an abortion. Not even if I were raped. It's a very personal thing, how I feel about pregnancy. So, watch the assumptions... What I do know is that I had a choice to make. And I want every woman to have that choice. Regardless of her circumstances. Because without the choice of what we do with our own bodies, we don't own ourselves.

You think whatever you want about the evil, hormonal, emotional bitches, but remember that you don't know everything. And it's likely you know a lot less about women than you think.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: Annee
Idk ... I was just very surprised to see plan B at CVS, at a price of $49.99!! For one pill?! Certainly insurance doesn't pay that does it?

You know what really made me feel uncomfortable when visiting America? CVS sells gallon bottles of liquor as well as birth control pills.

And smokes. Don't forget the smokes.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
So what's the point?

The point is that it should be easier for a woman to obtain an abortion. That's it. That's all.

She shouldn't have to drive 74 miles 3 separate times because of the requirement that she have counseling and a waiting period.

You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

a reply to: NavyDoc

It therefore shouldn't be so difficult to access those appointments, or the operation.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

Actually, no. I have had MANY procedures in one visit. I had a mole removed from my arm in one visit - no follow up unless I needed it. Colonoscopy, too. A mammogram, ultrasound, EEG... Jeez... I've had lots of procedures done in just one visit...

Before the GOP stuck their noses into women's medical issues and made that their business (and made it a political issue) a woman could go to an abortion clinic and get an abortion and leave a few hours later. One visit.

She didn't have to get consultation and be forced to wait 24 hours and return...

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
So what's the point?

The point is that it should be easier for a woman to obtain an abortion. That's it. That's all.

She shouldn't have to drive 74 miles 3 separate times because of the requirement that she have counseling and a waiting period.

You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

You do realize menstruation and spontaneous abortions happen everyday without need for a doctor.

Women, for eons, have gone to extreme lengths to take control of their bodies. Something most men do not come close to comprehending.

Women have been taking birth control pills for about 50 years now. Those come with all kinds of dangerous warnings. Are women going to stop taking them? Hell No! Being in control of their bodies out weighs the risks.

Taking a pill (actually 2) to end a pregnancy should be the woman's choice. Period! Not politicians, not religious whack jobs.

Severe cramping etc is little discomfort for being in charge of my body.

And again --- the right and access to Plan B (and women's clinics) --- needs to be Federally mandated. NOT left up to states with fundamental religious belief.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

Actually, no. I have had MANY procedures in one visit.

Me too. My medical records from childhood on could fill several file cabinets.

Got to the point I tell doctors from first meeting that I'm in charge and expect everything done in one visit. My last doctor wanted me to come in every 2 weeks. I'm in charge -- I went in every 2 months to have a blood test (thyroid, vitamin D, cholesterol). Everything was stabilized and hadn't changed in a year.

I have the right to be in charge of my health and medical needs.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

Actually, no. I have had MANY procedures in one visit. I had a mole removed from my arm in one visit - no follow up unless I needed it. Colonoscopy, too. A mammogram, ultrasound, EEG... Jeez... I've had lots of procedures done in just one visit...

Before the GOP stuck their noses into women's medical issues and made that their business (and made it a political issue) a woman could go to an abortion clinic and get an abortion and leave a few hours later. One visit.

She didn't have to get consultation and be forced to wait 24 hours and return...

None of those are anywhere near the acuity if a surgical abortion. All procedures of the same invasiveness require a consultation, the procedure, and a follow up visit.

A blood draw or a noninvasive diagnostic are nowhere near the same thing. It'd be like walking in and getting an elective myelogram off the street.

A spontaneous abortion is nothing like introducing sharp surgical instruments into a major organ nor is it like using chemicals that have an 8% failure rate. In addition, even spontaneous abortions require surgical correction at times.
Let's please Compare apples to apples.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

Actually, no. I have had MANY procedures in one visit.

Me too. My medical records from childhood on could fill several file cabinets.

Got to the point I tell doctors from first meeting that I'm in charge and expect everything done in one visit. My last doctor wanted me to come in every 2 weeks. I'm in charge -- I went in every 2 months to have a blood test (thyroid, vitamin D, cholesterol). Everything was stabilized and hadn't changed in a year.

I have the right to be in charge of my health and medical needs.

You are actually comparing a blood draw to placing a curette into a major pelvic organ?

And no, you are not in charge of your own medical needs. If a surgeon accepts you coming in and saying "I have appendicitis and I need an appendectomy right now," run, don't walk away from him.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: NavyDoc
You do realize that, absent emergencies, in every other medical procedure there is a consultation visit, a procedure visit, and a follow up visit and this is considered the standard of care legally and ethically, right?

Actually, no. I have had MANY procedures in one visit.

Me too. My medical records from childhood on could fill several file cabinets.

Got to the point I tell doctors from first meeting that I'm in charge and expect everything done in one visit. My last doctor wanted me to come in every 2 weeks. I'm in charge -- I went in every 2 months to have a blood test (thyroid, vitamin D, cholesterol). Everything was stabilized and hadn't changed in a year.

I have the right to be in charge of my health and medical needs.

You are actually comparing a blood draw to placing a curette into a major pelvic organ?

That's all you got out of that?

And YES, I am in charge of my body and how much health care I want. As previously stated I live on the Mexican border. If an American doctor doesn't comply, I've got other options. My choice.

I know you are not anti woman, but you sure seem like it at times.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

And no, you are not in charge of your own medical needs. If a surgeon accepts you coming in and saying "I have appendicitis and I need an appendectomy right now," run, don't walk away from him.

You added that.

That's reaching. I'm talking less doctoring and now you're suggesting more.