Pennsylvania mother who gave daughter abortion pill gets prison

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Yeah I see all the sensationalism and talk, but I don't actually see anyone having any problems in the real world. Never had an ex that didn't take birth control, never met a girl that had trouble getting an abortion if she needed it. Never heard one story of anyone in the US being forced to have a baby the intended to abort.

Yeah, okay. So this topic has never affected you or someone you love in any kind of meaningful and personal way. Is that you in the your Avatar? If so, I'm a whole lot older than you, and seen this issue play out in ways that you, apparently, couldn't imagine.

Abortion should be a state, or even local issue.

No. It shouldn't and it isn't. The Supreme Court of the United States has upheld a woman's right to abortion as a Constitutionally protected right. We don't let Constitutionally protected rights be decided by the states or popular vote.

As long as the self righteous religious right want to sway popular opinion and alter legal and medical definitions to suit their agenda, which is to chip, chip, chip away at a woman's Constitutionally protected right to have an abortion, there will be outspoken people like me, who are going to use their passion to protect the unsuspecting from the creeping agenda to make abortion impossible to obtain through terror, lies, ignorance, bullying, superstition, bigotry.......nothing is off limits when it comes to the pro-life / anti-choice crowd.

Abortions and birth control will always be available.

For women of means, yeah, they always have been, and will always be able to get birth control and abortions. But, those aren't the women who need to order pills off the internet, and then get sentence to a year in prison, and they never will be.

a reply to: windword

Hang in there Windword.

There's a major difference between reading a textbook on sex and actually experiencing sex in real life.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Abortion should be a state, or even local issue.

It should not be an "issue" at all.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

I think it's part because many of these women have felt like they have been put on the defensive on the entire subject. I see your points and, as I related, I drove 150 miles to get it done. I agree that the mother should've chose better. However, I don't think that's entirely what all of the women on this thread are necessarily disagreeing with. It's the condition in which it was created that that mother had to drive 74 miles or my 150 miles to get what needed to be done done.

My view is that it was wrong for her to break the law and it was also incredibly wrong that, whatever the situation was, that is what she felt she had to do because of the circumstances in this country. Why did I have to drive 150 miles for an involuntary abortion and why couldn't my own ob/gyn administer the pill that I had to drive 300 miles round trip for himself? You mentioned back alley abortion and I see that, too, albeit in a modernized form with infinitely less risk. What does it say about this country when we still have this kind of thing going on today, 41 years after Roe v. Wade?

Those conditions shouldn't exist. Why they exist though is because of religious and political reasons, because of death threats, bombings, and murders of providers. That's why I had to drive 300 miles to get a pill to terminate my pregnancy that was going to kill me.

As I posted above, those same conditions exist in Europe and Australia, without evil Republicans, because they have higher standard if care than we do (again, without evil republicans) and that it is not feasible to have such qualified clinics and physicians in ever single Podunk town. I have to drive 59 miles each way to take my kid to a pediatric neurologist.

When I said "in this country", I meant it precisely as I said it. It wasn't a comparison. It was a statement of fact that we happen to live "in this country". Please don't attribute more to three simple words than I ever did. I also didn't say "evil Republicans". Half of my family are Republicans, the other half are Democrats. We all get along just fine and have some good spirited debates at dinners. Again, attributing more to what I said and this time, including words that I never said.

Quit assuming you know what someone is saying or even implying or improve your reading comprehension.

How did anyone find out about the girl taking the pill?

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Reread what I wrote again, Gogo, and remind yourself that I agree with you--I don't think the woman should've done what she did. I drove 300 miles. It was a day trip. She's spending a year in jail because she didn't drive half of that. Don't know her circumstances as to why but the point is that she did, in fact, break the law. Considering that her sentence is likely to be 12-18 mos, I'm betting she's probably thinking that day trip would've probably been a wiser idea. If anything went wrong, which is seems likely that it did because her daughter ended up in the ER, it was going to be found out. She took a gamble and one should never gamble with a child's life.

Actually the pills are, overall, pretty simple although definitely not pleasant. The one given to me for the involuntary was a take-home pill and it didn't require a second set of meds. I miscarried at home and had to be on alert for any issues where I was advised to head to my local ER if need be. My ob/gyn was fully in the loop and on hand should anything go wrong. Mifepristone is the one that requires a second drug a couple years later as an additional precaution to assure that the pregnancy has been fully terminated. That second drug causes contractions to push out what remains. Again, not terribly complex. Not sure what went precisely wrong but what was shown in the article was Mifepristone and it does require that second medicine. Incomplete termination could've been the cause of that ER trip.

As far as surgical D&C's go, my gynecologist for the ectopic pregnancy could not perform the D&C only due to hospital policies. She was quite blunt about that. She did perform a non-abortive surgical D&C to correct a few unrelated issues so she was fully capable. She just wasn't allowed. In terms of competency, the clinic that I was sent to failed to appropriately terminate the pregnancy and I ended up having to go back in within 48 hours as I was bleeding like mad for a second D&C. That doesn't strike me as terribly competent though it was an ectopic pregnancy that they were contending with. Maybe that's harder. Still would've trusted my own gynecologist more. OB/gyn docs are not just doctors but surgeons themselves who are specialized in the female reproductive system. So my ob/gyns, historically, could perform a corrective day surgery or full blown c-sections. They are capable. The reasons that I was directly cited were 1. catholic hospital, 2. avoiding death threats, protests and etc to regular health clinics, and 3. I was so out in the middle of nowhere, they didn't keep it in stock. None of those three reasons was complexity or difficulty. Sociopolitical with the last being geographic issues.

lol, you're going to be an expert on all this girl stuff soon.

a reply to: Annee

Yeah.. but it is to some degree.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

She ended up in the emergency room for whatever reason.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Opps. What an unlucky turn of events. Isn't it bloody disgusting that our governments are treating us like criminals!

Surely our governments are criminal, so I wonder when time will come that we have it on it's knees?

Do we really need governments that hate us?

a reply to: WhiteAlice

I know, i didn't mean to sound argumentative. Usually people with no previous criminal history that don't get into trouble in jail/prison, and are there for a short term, they are up for parole after a third of their sentence. So she will probably do about 4 months if she was for sure sentenced to a year (i don't understand why it gave her sentence as a year to 18 months rather than a solid answer unless it wasn't decided).

a reply to: windword

I'm almost 30 and it has affected many people close to me it's just never been that negative. Plus I can look at the news, we aren't EVER hearing stories about women incapable of getting birth control or having abortions - and that's for a reason.

I agree that maybe it should've started out as a national issue, but it's been decided in court for the most part and the right will never disappear. They WANT you to think it's a forever battle so you are blind to more current urgent issues.

I am sure the government is fine with keeping the population down..

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

I'm not sure what you mean. I think she should have got in some trouble, just not jail time.

Not because of the abortion, i'm fine with that, just because she ordered illegal drugs and gave her daughter a secret abortion (that ended up needing hospitalization apparently) rather than take her to the actual abortion clinic that was an hour drive away.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

What I mean is no, she shouldn't have got in trouble. It wasn't the best method, but it might have been the best option.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

It's true that we don't know the situation with this mother. Is it possible that the daughter, who may have been in a very vulnerable and emotional state at the time, knew she would be harassed by pro-lifers at the clinic? Is it possible that she begged her mother to help her get this abortion without having to go the clinic? I'm not excusing it, but I can sure understand it. If it were my daughter, my heart would be broken by her pleas. I can see where a mother might break down and do something like this.

This is precisely why I believe all women getting an abortion have the right to privacy. These pro-lifers have a right to protest, but not anywhere near the clinics IMHO. The women aren't doing anything illegal - abortions are legal. Give them their privacy.

Abortion debate aside, I see this as yet more evidence that big pharma is behind the scenes influencing the law. IMO, this is all about money.

For the love of god we can't have people buying this drug for cheap, they MUST pay $600 for it! And follow up Dr. visits! And follow up drugs! And drugs for the side effects!

How dare her, may she rot in a cell for years! /sarcasm

So as a single mother who will take care of her daughter while shes locked up?
It will be damn near impossible for her to pay the fines after being in jail, plus Im sure she will lose her job.

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

I think it's part because many of these women have felt like they have been put on the defensive on the entire subject. I see your points and, as I related, I drove 150 miles to get it done. I agree that the mother should've chose better. However, I don't think that's entirely what all of the women on this thread are necessarily disagreeing with. It's the condition in which it was created that that mother had to drive 74 miles or my 150 miles to get what needed to be done done.

My view is that it was wrong for her to break the law and it was also incredibly wrong that, whatever the situation was, that is what she felt she had to do because of the circumstances in this country. Why did I have to drive 150 miles for an involuntary abortion and why couldn't my own ob/gyn administer the pill that I had to drive 300 miles round trip for himself? You mentioned back alley abortion and I see that, too, albeit in a modernized form with infinitely less risk. What does it say about this country when we still have this kind of thing going on today, 41 years after Roe v. Wade?

Those conditions shouldn't exist. Why they exist though is because of religious and political reasons, because of death threats, bombings, and murders of providers. That's why I had to drive 300 miles to get a pill to terminate my pregnancy that was going to kill me.

As I posted above, those same conditions exist in Europe and Australia, without evil Republicans, because they have higher standard if care than we do (again, without evil republicans) and that it is not feasible to have such qualified clinics and physicians in ever single Podunk town. I have to drive 59 miles each way to take my kid to a pediatric neurologist.

When I said "in this country", I meant it precisely as I said it. It wasn't a comparison. It was a statement of fact that we happen to live "in this country". Please don't attribute more to three simple words than I ever did. I also didn't say "evil Republicans". Half of my family are Republicans, the other half are Democrats. We all get along just fine and have some good spirited debates at dinners. Again, attributing more to what I said and this time, including words that I never said.

Quit assuming you know what someone is saying or even implying or improve your reading comprehension.

You said this:

What does it say about this country when we still have this kind of thing going on today, 41 years after Roe v. Wade?

Those conditions shouldn't exist. Why they exist though is because of religious and political reasons, because of death threats, bombings, and murders of providers. That's why I had to drive 300 miles to get a pill to terminate my pregnancy that was going to kill me.

What "religious and political reasons" were you referring to then?

All I did was point out that there are similar issues elsewhere, in countries without those "religious and political" reasons you went on about.

a reply to: BanTv

The girl ended up in the emergency room. That's how they found out the mother gave it to her.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If that's the case it's up to the mother to tell her the clinic is the safe and only option and support her through it.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: kaylaluv

If that's the case it's up to the mother to tell her the clinic is the safe and only option and support her through it.

Yeah well, if it were my daughter, I would probably punch out any pro-lifers harassing her, so I'd probably go to jail anyway.