U.S. Military fighters trailing unresp. aircraft in Atlantic... UPDATE: Plane crashed near Jamaica

a reply to: theantediluvian

heavy.com...

Interesting article on Larry Glazer, and his wife, the presumed deceased pilot and his wife, according to their son, Ken.

He stated that regardless of reports, they were the only two on board. Interesting, will be curious to see who the reported third person turns out to be.

Anyways. 5 quick facts about Larry Glazer you need to know. Enlightening article.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Libertygal

Just the opposite. Outflow valve failures are so subtle that by the time you realize there's a problem, you're already hypoxic, and incapacitated to the point that you either never realise there's a problem, or you no longer have the coordination to put the mask on.

Is there no automatic system in place to recognize an OVF? like if it were to notice, instantly drop the oxygen masks?

Or what your saying is by the time the system does notice, it's already too late and you can't even put the mask on?

m.rochestercitynewspaper.com...

Well, after being rather insistant that usually only one pilot flies the plane, now comes an article there was a third person, another pilot, on board, today.

And it grows curiouser and curiouser.

Zimmer-Myer, president of the Rochester Downtown,
Development Corporation, says that Glazer was an
accomplished pilot and an iconic figure in Rochester.

(UPDATE: Brooks said at a press conference this afternoon
that Glazer was not piloting the plane. There was a separate
pilot on board, she said.)

So, the son says one thing, and the corporation says another.

Hmm.

ETA -

Glazer was CEO of Buckingham Properties and a major figure Glazer was CEO of Buckingham Properties and a major figure
in the redevelopment of downtown Rochester. Buckingham in the redevelopment of downtown Rochester. Buckingham
either owns, co-owns, or manages nearly 13 million square either owns, co-owns, or manages nearly 13 million square
feet of real estate space, including some of downtown feet of real estate space, including some of downtown
Rochester's most iconic buildings: Midtown Tower, Xerox Rochester's most iconic buildings: Midtown Tower, Xerox
Square, and the Bausch and Lomb building. Square, and the Bausch and Lomb building.

Iconic, indeed. And apparently, quite active in urban renewal projects.

a reply to: yourmaker

It depends on the aircraft. Commercial aircraft have multiple warnings in the cockpit. Smaller planes, don't usually.

What altitude do single engine planes fly?

I thought that 10,000 feet was the service ceiling for small single engine aircraft.

Would outflow valve failure cause death even at such low altitudes?

a reply to: Murgatroid

A single engine turboprop can fly over 20,000 feet easily. Smaller single engine aircraft stay below 10k because they can't pressurize.

Though accidents do happen...considering the fact that Larry Glazer is a CEO and all, and that this is a conspiracy forums...what are the chances that someone plotted against him?

Here's some fact about Larry Glazer by the way.
heavy.com...

It just seems so bizarre that there is no way for an experienced pilot to monitor the cabin oxygen levels in a brand new $3.7 million plane.

Even all modern cars have multiple engine O2 sensors in the exhaust.

Is it because the technology doesn't exist or is the cost just too prohibitive?

CNN is reporting the audio from the pilot. The pilot said the aircraft had some incorrect indicator, and they requested to descend low. So obviously they noticed a problem, and tried to take appropriate actions, but they didn't do it fast enough I guess.

I don't see a conspiracy.

a reply to: Murgatroid

There was talk earlier about how the plane might have been the plane he was seeking to replace with the 'brand new' plane. Even if the O2 alarm was working, the pilot may have been incapacitated by some other medical problem. O2 sensor tech is simple and does exist for cheap, but nothing is surefire.

edit: Perhaps the 'sensor indicator problem' was actually the sensor working properly, and the pilot disregarded the falling O2

a reply to: Murgatroid

They have warnings, but the pilot doesn't always listen. That's exactly what happened in Greece, on a Boeing 737.

A previous flight reported whistling near the aft passenger door, so maintenance worked it overnight. During the check the outflow valve switch was put in manual. During departure the next day, the crew failed to notice and took off with the valve open.

During climb out they received numerous configuration and pressure warnings. They contacted their maintenance department to find out what could cause it, and kept climbing. Passing through 22,000 feet maintenance called and got no answer. The aircraft arrived over Athens and was intercepted, to find no movement, except one person in the cabin, a flight attendant who recognized what was going on and was trying to get to the cockpit, and three windows frosted over. The flight eventually ran out of fuel and crashed, killing everyone on board.

is it any link to the glazers that own Manchester united?

a reply to: WeAre0ne

I don't see a conspiracy.

Are you kidding? A plane went down, people were on the plane, therefore there has to be a conspiracy. Do you know nothing?

When a cabin depressurizes, does it happen instantly? Meaning, little to no time to get oxygen masks on? I'm just trying to understand how this would happen, because if the pressure was dropping (over a certain length of time) you would think a pilot would notice that and take the necessary steps to make everyone safe, right?

Either way, RIP to those involved in the crash.

a reply to: jhn7537

Depends on the cause, but unconsciousness doesn't occur instantaneously either way. In this case, if it was the outflow valve, it would have been slow.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jhn7537

Depends on the cause, but unconsciousness doesn't occur instantaneously either way. In this case, if it was the outflow valve, it would have been slow.

You are the resident aeronautics expert on ATS, so I do trust your statements on the subject. Let me ask you this, if it was slow, would the pilots notice it? Would it make you light headed? I'm just trying to make sense of this all... Is this common?

a reply to: jhn7537

If they've had training, they might recognize it. They'd stand a better chance anyway. You start out getting a little light headed, and simple tasks get harder and harder. Something that you can do without thinking about, like writing your name, eventually takes everything you have, and while you would think it was perfect, it would just be a bunch of random lines. There are videos on YouTube, just look for hypoxia training. I'm on my phone or I'd link one.

It's not common. This only makes the fourth or fifth one off the top of my head.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: theantediluvian

If the windows are frosted it's lost pressurization. That's why he's incapacitated. An outflow valve failure can be insidious, and even trained pilots can fall to recognize what's happening. It happened both to Payne Stewart with the Lear that he was on, and a 737 over Greece.

Ah I didn't see anything about the windows being frosted. Thanks for pointing that out and explaining the significance! Sounds like they're estimating that it's going to run out of fuel any moment now.

The big problem here is that Tinfoil is just too damn cheap and easy to acquire.

Every single thread on this site has at least one Tinfoil junkie, claiming a US CIA conspiracy, and it dose not matter what the subject is..

Doesn't matter at all, the US is to blame for everything that goes on in this world today.

You just can't have a thread without these guys showing up...lol

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Zaphod58

Why dont we have a way to snatch planes out of the air or to safely land them pilot or not

It would be an awesome thing to have but unfortunately no I don't think there are any systems that could accomplish such a task. I think there's a couple of air to air boarding systems within the military, but again still very risky and expensive and not worth the risk to implement on a regular basis.

Well, there you go, something for you to work on in your spare time, might make you some $$ somewhere down the track.

(not being sarcastic here, some of our greatest innovations were conceived and constructed in someone's back yard).

It would be a great thing to have though and might also have some anti-terror/hijacking uses too.

Dunno' where you'd start tho. Tractor beam tech, or perhaps some sort of carbon fibre grappling system with an aircraft that could pull the extra weight and G's to slow down and carry an entire plane and then lower it safely to the ground.

Honestly though, I don't think the cost of creating/implementing a system like that would be worth the miniscule number of accidents that happen in this manner.

But then again, what is the value of human life (both in the air and on the ground), I suppose you can always charge a hefty fee to make up for the expense of using such a system...lol

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Murgatroid

A single engine turboprop can fly over 20,000 feet easily. Smaller single engine aircraft stay below 10k because they can't pressurize.

Pressurization on smaller engine can be achieved but not worth the effort as smaller engines cannot give you that higher service ceiling anyway

Other than the obvious way the media is handling the story there is no smoking gun that flags a conspiracy.
Hypoxia is very subtle, I remember driving over bear tooth pass years ago with an ex girlfriend.
The effects of high altitude vary but it definitely effects judgement, makes some people irritable, made me sleepy I would have pulled over and taken a nap except the snowbanks were too high.

Both the Glaziers were pilots and loved flying but that doesn't mean they had training in the effects of hypoxia. Their new plane with all glass cockpit could have simply developed a pressure leak, glass frosted over and we are reading the rest of the story.

All the posters that claim the Glaziers fate was due to them being too rich will probably see the irony in them illegally overflying a poor communist country either dead or unconscious.