Ebola: "Don't Help" Campaign Promotes Pandemic Depopulation Strategy

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: NavyDoc

Although there is not a strain that infects humans that is airborne, the possibility that eventually there may be one is very real .

Thanks doc (intrptr holds breath). Just as an aside, do viruses that are "airborne" survive for protracted periods out side a host because they form cysts, like a cocoon that keeps the dormant cell alive until it reenters a host? This could be a long time. The ground on which we walk may contain a bunch of these and whenever the wind blows…

Viruses are also exceedingly small and would easily loft into the air at the slightest breeze.

Some cysts last for generations buried in the ground, waiting for someone to disturb the soil.

Not cysts but expression of surface proteins and sugars that enable them to adhere to airborne droplets, resist UV rays, and adhere to and infiltrate airway mucosa.

originally posted by: AnonymousCitizen

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

Doctors Without Borders (MSF) is NOT part of the problem! They have been dealing with Ebola for decades - and NOT ONE of their people has ever got Ebola!

I'm just trying to understand the situation. Obviously with the current outbreak, something is different this time.

Another question: I had heard the the pattern of infection is different this time around. Rather than originating in remote villages and spreading into more populated areas, that this time it originated almost simultaneously in two major population centers and spread outward from there. Any truth to that? We would that have changed?

Points taken. ...I've actually posted a lot saying just that - the pattern of infection is different this time around (geographic spread, etc.) - and it is true to a point. But the "patterns" start to make sense if we speculate that USAMRIID and the VHFC were testing vaccines out of their research facilities in Kenema Hospital in Sierra Leone and Irrua Hospital/University of Lagos in Nigeria.

NOTE: Guinea was the first nation to report cases, but contrary to the PR, early reports and evidence suggest that the reported epidemic emanated out from Kenema.

Also, fyi:

Latest US doc to get Ebola skipped protective gear in 100-degree heat, says colleague

….The unidentified doctor was working in the obstetrics unit of the massive Elwa Hospital in the Liberian capital of Monrovia, far from the Ebola unit, said Dr. Jeff Deal, a South Carolina doctor who traveled to Liberia to help battle the crisis engulfing much of Africa. Doctors and other health care workers often do not wear protective gear in the general part of the hospital, most of which has no air conditioning. With high temperatures compounded by equatorial humidity, many doctors and healthcare workers outside of the Ebola unit skip protective gear.

a reply to: intrptr

I know, I know. But the fact remains that USAMRIID and the VHFC were on location conducting research without ethical oversight- and appear to have been testing vaccines as well as "better tests." ....Interesting that they started their research in Kenema 10-odd years ago, at the same time genetic analysis shows that this Ebola first appeared in West Africa.

The military may know how to handle a siege, but they really don't know dick about biology. I strongly suggest you go to the medical experts on this one. As the experts say, and as I keep repeating - quarantine seldom works - and never works with zoonoses (animal borne diseases). The key to stopping this and other epidemics is in isolating infected patients, tracing their contacts and monitoring.

1) quarantine has been historically used to discriminate against minorities;
2) studies demonstrate that mass quarantine is ineffective;
3) a large scale quarantine would be difficult to implement.

An outbreak should meet the following three criteria for quarantine to be a useful measure of disease control:

* people likely to be incubating the infection must be efficiently and effectively identified;
* those people must comply with the conditions of quarantine; and
* the infectious disease in question must be transmissible in its presymptomatic or early symptomatic stages.

The use of quarantine in the Toronto (SARS) outbreak failed on all three counts.

Usually, only elected officials with no medical education recommend quarantine. Just because it sounds good.

NOTE: This "coming firestorm" will NOT burn itself out - that's the mistaken assumption that rationalized the earlier cover-ups, and look where that got us. ....At best, new strains will just keep jumping back and forth between animals and the human survivors - then when the colonial conquerors return for the spoils, look out. The new strain(s) will be unstoppable.

a reply to: soficrow

You are so , so paranoid. The chances you getting this virus is like winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning..... twice. It a scare tactic to get you to get a vaccine of some kind. NOT HAPPENING. Consider the 9 billion people on this planet. Now the 1,000 that are infected. That's like ONE in 9 million will die. Hell, Car accidents occurr a hell of a lot more frequent than ebola. Maybe i should get paranoid about getting behind the wheel to go to work. Someone might hit me. I'm scared. I'm scared.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: armakirais

Wow…

Hundreds of mutations…

Maybe it will jump to migrating sea birds, or fish.

Those can cross whole oceans with ease.

So can many biting insects cross oceans.

Mosquitoes and so on, could potentially spread ebola by biting an infected person, carry the virus and infect another person 1000's of miles away by biting them.

a reply to: cloaked4u

As it happens, the chances of being infected and dying from Ebola are slightly better than winning the lottery..once, not twice.

If we say chances of ebola fatality = 1 in 9 million...then you stand more chance of getting ebola than winning the lottery, which is around 1 in 14 million.

Still very remote though i agree.

BUT...that's if it can be contained properly.

Soon as i heard that bloody Monsanto were in the mix promoting an Ebola vaccine, my first thought was that Ebola will most likely go to a global pandemic...they are in the money accumulation business, not helping people business..they'll want to see a profit, a very large profit.

But hopefully, that's just my cynical mind being overly..well, cynical.

originally posted by: cloaked4u
a reply to: soficrow

You are so , so paranoid. The chances you getting this virus is like winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning..... twice. It a scare tactic to get you to get a vaccine of some kind. NOT HAPPENING. Consider the 9 billion people on this planet. Now the 1,000 that are infected. That's like ONE in 9 million will die. Hell, Car accidents occurr a hell of a lot more frequent than ebola. Maybe i should get paranoid about getting behind the wheel to go to work. Someone might hit me. I'm scared. I'm scared.

Read my posts. I am neither paranoid nor concerned about getting Ebola. I simply recognize that West Africa is desperate - and that if we do not unite and cooperate globally, then we will pay.


ETA - you may be uninterested in anything that does not affect you personally and immediately - but you should be, and others are.

a reply to: cloaked4u

What about the current infection rate, if it keeps going like this then we have until next year...

a reply to: soficrow

1) Your correct, the virus needs be dealt with as soon as possible and a Global Initiative should be undertaken immediately. Something like a coalition of the willing needs be set up to pursue a vaccine while at the same time, setting up state of the art response centers in the affected countries. World leaders should come to look upon this crises as an opportunity to develop and deploy response techniques for use in the future as new problems crop up.

2) I lived in Africa, years ago. My first hand experience informs me that the situation on the ground in the affected countries is extremely chaotic. The governments themselves aren't very stable. The infrastructure is shot. Therefore;

3) I'd strongly recommend the French be requested to take the lead on this effort. They have the most experience in the area and they already have military personnel in the area. Furthermore, the French are trusted by the local populations.

I could go on and on, but the truth is that the World leaders need to be awakened to the problem at the earliest opportunity.

originally posted by: R3KR
a reply to: cloaked4u

What about the current infection rate, if it keeps going like this then we have until next year...

Damn dude, thats a scary picture.

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure." --Ripley, from Aliens

a reply to: NavyDoc

Not cysts but expression of surface proteins and sugars that enable them to adhere to airborne droplets, resist UV rays, and adhere to and infiltrate airway mucosa.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification. The smallest most dangerous living things.

a reply to: soficrow

The key to stopping this and other epidemics is in isolating infected patients, tracing their contacts and monitoring.

I appreciate your zeal there soficrow, I do respect your input here. You keep us informed of new developments and all.

That you described above is part of the containment procedure and, like you said…

As the experts say, and as I keep repeating - quarantine seldom works - and never works with zoonoses (animal borne diseases).

Time to move the barricades.

a reply to: intrptr

RE:"Quarantine seldom works - and never works with zoonoses (animal borne diseases)."

Time to move the barricades.

To where? The moon? Or maybe Mars? ...'Cuz no way around the fact that everything on this planet is inter-connected.

a reply to: soficrow

To where? The moon? Or maybe Mars? ...'Cuz no way around the fact that everything on this planet is inter-connected.

Finding infected people is part of quarantine operations as a whole.

You are right, its not working.

Thats why they are warning everyone to stay out. Its too late to go in there and find all the victims, there are too many of them.

If "bodies are lying in the streets", then its way too late for that.

But don't worry, in the worst case scenario, 10 percent of the worlds population will survive and repopulate.

a reply to: intrptr

Here's one reason quarantine won't work: The fruit bat that carries Ebola has a huge range, depicted in the map below by the magenta dotted line.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: soficrow

1) Your correct, the virus needs be dealt with as soon as possible and a Global Initiative should be undertaken immediately. Something like a coalition of the willing needs be set up to pursue a vaccine while at the same time, setting up state of the art response centers in the affected countries. World leaders should come to look upon this crises as an opportunity to develop and deploy response techniques for use in the future as new problems crop up.

2) I lived in Africa, years ago. My first hand experience informs me that the situation on the ground in the affected countries is extremely chaotic. The governments themselves aren't very stable. The infrastructure is shot. Therefore;

3) I'd strongly recommend the French be requested to take the lead on this effort. They have the most experience in the area and they already have military personnel in the area. Furthermore, the French are trusted by the local populations.

I could go on and on, but the truth is that the World leaders need to be awakened to the problem at the earliest opportunity.

I agree. But it looks like that's not about to happen. Even though the "window of opportunity to contain the epidemic is closing fast."

a reply to: intrptr

Well, your military-industrial complex won this round - so there probably won't be another one.

A senior U.S. official rebutted a call from global aid organization Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) for wealthy nations to deploy specialized biological disaster response teams to the region. ….

"I don't think at this point deploying biological incident response teams is exactly what's needed," said Gayle Smith, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Development and Democracy on the National Security Council.

She said the U.S. government was focusing on rapidly increasing the number of Ebola treatment centers in affected countries, providing protective equipment, and training local staff. "We will see a considerable ramp-up in the coming days and weeks. If we find it is still moving out of control, we will look at other options," Smith told a conference call.

[sigh]

a reply to: soficrow

My industrial complex? I wish.

If we find it is still moving out of control, we will look at other options," Smith told a conference call.

Thats the military option. Hard to authorize since its all cost with no profit margin. My guess is America will contribute as little as possible (sigh). They haven't yet anyway.

Why should we? They have the resources to do that right there. They need to exhaust all of those, then call us. Its not a matter of a one shot deal anyway. This is ongoing for the foreseeable future. Even if they contain it to Africa, it will keep popping up again and again. Lie a forest fire that is still smoldering the next day.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: soficrow

My industrial complex? I wish.

If we find it is still moving out of control, we will look at other options," Smith told a conference call.

Thats the military option. Hard to authorize since its all cost with no profit margin. My guess is America will contribute as little as possible (sigh). They haven't yet anyway.

Why should we? They have the resources to do that right there. They need to exhaust all of those, then call us. Its not a matter of a one shot deal anyway. This is ongoing for the foreseeable future. Even if they contain it to Africa, it will keep popping up again and again. Lie a forest fire that is still smoldering the next day.

That would be military-industrial complex. You left out the important part.

As far as Smith's promise to 'look at other options' down the road - she's referring to her refusal to deploy specialized biological disaster response teams, and instead, just "training local staff." Hardly effective.

....You're right - our world is chock-full of deadly diseases. Deforestation and resource extraction are loosing some really bad ones into our environment. If we don't 'contain' such industrial so-called development we are all in for a world of hurt and yes, "it will keep popping up again and again. "

a reply to: intrptr

MORE

The Ebola crisis demands that America act

We are about to witness a human catastrophe that could destroy large portions of a continent and pose a global threat. And the response of the world, including the United States, is feeble, irresponsible and disrespectful of nature’s lethal perils.

What Will It Take to Stop Ebola? We Can't Lose Even a Day, UN Says

…The latest count: 3,685 people sick, and 1,841 of them have died.

“We cannot afford to lose even a day,” Dr. David Nabarro, global Ebola coordinator for the United Nations, told reporters. ….

…..“It has become a global threat and we require urgent action,” said WHO Director-General Dr. Margaret Chan.

There are pressing needs for supplies such as protective equipment and medicines, hospital beds and most of all, people.

….WHO’s Dr. Keiji Fukuda said experts estimate it can take as many as 200 to 250 people to take care of 80 Ebola patients. Doctors, nurses and anyone tending to the personal needs of a sick Ebola patient must wear full protective gear. It’s hot and uncomfortable, and groups such as Medecins Sans Frontieres restrict their staffers to 40-minute shifts.

“We anticipate that there is going to be the need for several thousand people in the different countries,” Fukuda said.

….…..“The single most important (need) is that we don’t have enough people on the ground…these include health worker, nurses and doctors… people transporting people,” Fukuda said. ….

“A scale-up is needed on the order of three to four times what is currently in place,” Chan said.