What I love about the pro-life logic...

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: intrepid
I LOVE people arguing over something that is an issue that seldom affects their lives. But they want to tell others theirs. BOTH SIDES people. This is silly. It's done. Roe vs Wade. 40 years ago. It's not going to change so why beak about it?

I'm not trying to tell anyone, I'm just discussing the paradigm of a woman's role in this whole messed up debate!

There is no debate. That debate was settled in the SCOTUS 40 years ago. Arguing it now would be like trying to kill a chicken that you already ate. It's the media that keeps this non-issue front and center. Answer this:

"Do you think the SCOTUS will EVER repeal Roe vs Wade"?

Okay you win, I am just baiting pro-lifers because I like to point the flaws out in their beliefs. You got me!

a reply to: intrepid

Laws change all the time. Roe vs. Wade wasn't written in stone. Even the OP stated that she started the thread due to things changing in Texas. We are making progress and this debate is far from over just because you say so.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: intrepid
I LOVE people arguing over something that is an issue that seldom affects their lives. But they want to tell others theirs. BOTH SIDES people. This is silly. It's done. Roe vs Wade. 40 years ago. It's not going to change so why beak about it?

I'm not trying to tell anyone, I'm just discussing the paradigm of a woman's role in this whole messed up debate!

There is no debate. That debate was settled in the SCOTUS 40 years ago. Arguing it now would be like trying to kill a chicken that you already ate. It's the media that keeps this non-issue front and center. Answer this:

"Do you think the SCOTUS will EVER repeal Roe vs Wade"?

Then we should never debate gun control here either, hell that's been an amendment for more than forty years.
Done and done.

originally posted by: Bazart

originally posted by: intrepid
I LOVE people arguing over something that is an issue that seldom affects their lives. But they want to tell others theirs. BOTH SIDES people. This is silly. It's done. Roe vs Wade. 40 years ago. It's not going to change so why beak about it?

I admit that I DON'T LIKE it when complete strangers think they know something ( anything ? ) about my life .

That's totally awesome. The next time you are the topic I'll post. Now do you have a point as to this non-issue?

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

My last line was "when" the baby has rights.
So just for #s and giggles when do you feel the baby has rights?
Myself being an atheist and having low moral standards (being a blasphemer) lol..
I feel the first trimester is a good happy middle ground but what do I know, how bout you?

That's not the question that concerns me, I'm genuinely stumped that some deem the pregnancy a woman's responsibility and yet attempt to remove all decision making from her hands because she's not responsible enough???

Haha!
Now who's avoiding the question?
I agree that men are equally responsible for pregnancy.
Now when does the child get the right to choose to live?

I don't know, why don't you start a thread about it and stop trying to move away from the OP?? This isn't about when the potential human becomes human, it never was.

a reply to: intrepid

"Do you think the SCOTUS will EVER repeal Roe vs Wade"?

I believe it will.

Roe -v- Wade was settled on some very shaky legal arguments, which even the ruling majority admitted. The country continues to move towards the pro-life position (33%/56% in 1996 to 46%/47% in 2014 (Source) and a recent poll indicated that 58% of Americans oppose abortion in all or most circumstances) and it is only a matter of time before the composition of the court is such that those shaky arguments are called into question. With the majority opposed, once that "constitutional right to privacy" (which doesn't exist) protection is removed, hopefully lawmakers will put an end to this horrific practice once and for all.

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Thank you for sharing a relevant adage. He's right. Just as stupid to argue gun control in America as it is abortion. NEITHER are ever going to change. It's a frickin smokescreen to keep you from thinking about the REAL issues. BTW, how much did Halliburton make today?

FTR: I'm against abortion as a source of birth control. I also apply logic control.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

My last line was "when" the baby has rights.
So just for #s and giggles when do you feel the baby has rights?
Myself being an atheist and having low moral standards (being a blasphemer) lol..
I feel the first trimester is a good happy middle ground but what do I know, how bout you?

That's not the question that concerns me, I'm genuinely stumped that some deem the pregnancy a woman's responsibility and yet attempt to remove all decision making from her hands because she's not responsible enough???

Haha!
Now who's avoiding the question?
I agree that men are equally responsible for pregnancy.
Now when does the child get the right to choose to live?

I don't know, why don't you start a thread about it and stop trying to move away from the OP?? This isn't about when the potential human becomes human, it never was.

That's exactly what it's about....
Your wondering why someone has any authority to tell you what to do, but you fail to realize that the baby might have rights.
You have the right to get pregnant.
You have the right to use birth control.
Your organs your rights, simple enough.
But and here's the big but, when you get pregnant there are another set of organs that are not yours.

a reply to: calstorm

I am against abortion after 9 weeks except in extreme cases and then never after the age of viability at 21 weeks.

Why? What's so magical about the 9th week?

You need to understand that most women won't even find out that they're pregnant until around the 6th week. Then you need to understand that, even if a woman can make a snap decisions about getting an abortion, she will need money, and perhaps babysitters, time off from work, hotel stay, transportation needs, etc. etc. etc.

You also need to understand that doctors can only perform certain tests, to find out the viability of the fetus after 20-22 weeks. Many happy, expectant parents dreams are dashed around 22 weeks, upon hearing news of severe birth defects. Late term abortions are only done because of these kinds of problems, that can also have life threatening effects on the mother.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc
Dictionary, use one sometime.
If you haven't noticed, numerous English words have different meanings.
I also would like to add that starting your whole argument for right to choose with assumed blame of pregnancy a little disturbing. yes, they say these things about women but the whole "She gets blamed for getting pregnant so she gets to choose what happens" argument is mind numbing

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

A fertilized egg isn't a person and has no rights. Neither does an embryo or a fetus.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Thank you for sharing a relevant adage. He's right. Just as stupid to argue gun control in America as it is abortion. NEITHER are ever going to change. It's a frickin smokescreen to keep you from thinking about the REAL issues. BTW, how much did Halliburton make today?

FTR: I'm against abortion as a source of birth control. I also apply logic control.

You obviously worry about "real" issues all the time, coming from a guy with a comic book avatar. How much did marvel comics make today?
The last time I looked there were many threads on this website and you don't have to read them all.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

A fertilized egg isn't a person and has no rights. Neither does an embryo or a fetus.

Thank you! You actually answered the question!

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Bazart

originally posted by: intrepid
I LOVE people arguing over something that is an issue that seldom affects their lives. But they want to tell others theirs. BOTH SIDES people. This is silly. It's done. Roe vs Wade. 40 years ago. It's not going to change so why beak about it?

I admit that I DON'T LIKE it when complete strangers think they know something ( anything ? ) about my life .

That's totally awesome. The next time you are the topic I'll post. Now do you have a point as to this non-issue?

I have been an intimate ( pardon the expression ) part of this topic , though I haven ' t tried to make it about me .
It's ironic that someone ( myself in this thread ) might be considered condescending , and then be confronted with your ( above ) post . Oh well . there are always bigger fish !

originally posted by: intrepid
I LOVE people arguing over something that is an issue that seldom affects their lives. But they want to tell others theirs. BOTH SIDES people. This is silly. It's done. Roe vs Wade. 40 years ago. It's not going to change so why beak about it?

Its been changed. With laws that require clinics to have hospital privileges. Effectively closing them.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

Dear SearchLightsInc,

Yes but if you deem a woman responsible for getting pregnant then who are you to step in after the fact and tell her what she can and cannot do with her body?

I understand that this was your point in the OP, and I think I understand it now, but obviously I don't because it doesn't make sense to me. I'm honestly looking for your help in understanding your position.

Concerning becoming pregnant. I don't think I have an unusual position. It requires a man and a woman and, for my purposes here, cooperation. I suppose that means they're both responsible.

I don't recall saying that either party was solely responsible. Actually, I don't think it matters, logically, who is responsible. The result is a pregnant woman.

Society sees a potential citizen, one it may end up taxing, or providing welfare to. It will vote on the direction of the community. It will get society's education, healthcare, protection, and other benefits and obligations. It allows society to express an opinion on how important future generations and the helpless are to our sense of right and wrong.

How, logically, did the woman become the sole arbiter in this situation? Society has no voice, the father has no voice, the soon to be brothers and sisters have no voice, and the child ( who will be born if just left alone) is silent.

"I don't want anyone interfering with my body, but my baby's body? That's a different story."

Try this. You enlist in the Army for whatever reason seemed good to you at the time. You arrive at camp and the normal things happen to you that happen to any recruit, and you become cold, hot, miserable, tired, dirty, wet, and a ton of other bad things.

At 2 a.m. your Drill Sergeant orders you to run up and down the range tower steps 20 times. After three times, you tell him; "Screw this! You can't do this to me, it's my body and I can do what I want with my body."

If you're extremely lucky, the Sergeant will laugh himself silly, and that will take an edge off some of his response. But whatever he finally does do to your poor old carcass, he probably will tell you. "Listen, cupcake. You put your pen to paper and scribbled your name. You've bought two years of this, suck it up and stick it out or you get jail or a boot in your dishonorable butt."

And I'll bet the recruiter didn't even buy you a drink.

Resolving the question of when human life begins is critical for advancing a reasoned public policy debate over abortion and human embryo research. This article considers the current scientific evidence in human embryology and addresses two central questions concerning the beginning of life: 1) in the course of sperm-egg interaction, when is a new cell formed that is distinct from either sperm or egg? and 2) is this new cell a new human organism—i.e., a new human being? Based on universally accepted scientific criteria, a new cell, the human zygote, comes into existence at the moment of sperm-egg fusion, an event that occurs in less than a second. Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life or of human embryos.

bdfund.org...

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

I think it's illogical to not think about the consequences before you go spreading your legs for your own pleasure also especially knowing that there are many different avenues to prevent women from falling pregnant in the first place.

a reply to: smithjustinb

So… do you have an opinion beyond a series of "oh so clever" internet memes? Nice intelligent contribution. You, my friend, are part of the problem.

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc

That's not the question that concerns me, I'm genuinely stumped that some deem the pregnancy a woman's responsibility and yet attempt to remove all decision making from her hands because she's not responsible enough???

We're not saying she's not responsible enough to make a decision, we're saying there shouldn't be a decision to begin with (at least that's what I'm saying). Plus your question is a bit of an oxymoron anyway.