Is Jesus being depicted as satan in the arts?

a reply to: windword

Well they were certainly busy re-writing history then.

Rome did change the message of early Christianity to enable Rome to be Gods spokesman on earth (some call it paulinity) but there are way too many sources that prove Joshua (Jesus) existed with some researchers even believing they have tracked his travels through India/tibet during the missing years. Gospel of Thomas shows that early teachings were very different to the Bible so perhaps your stance should be against Rome not Joshua (Jesus).

a reply to: glend

Jesus, Joshua, Yoshuhua, whatever.........

We don't even know his name. His genealogy? Where was he born? Bethlehem wasn't inhabited in the first and certainly wasn't a place that citizens gathered to register for some Roman census. Galilee and "Nazareth" (which was a large funerary used by Judah) wasn't under Roman rule and wouldn't be under an edict for citizens to go to the place of their birth to register for a census. (That there is no proof even happened)

Sorry, Jesus Christ is a mythological character that may be based on one or more zealots and political figures of the day.

There was no man/god born of a virgin, that preformed said miracles, purposefully had himself murdered so that he could save us from the Hell he created, and then rose from the dead and flew off to Heaven in a cloud.

Nope! That person didn't exist.

Jesus Never Existed

a reply to: windword

Much of Bethlehem was destroyed in second century by Rome but it was a very old city which is even mentioned in very Egyptian texts. I don't know much of the census but know it was done to tax people under Romes control which led to many revolts. It seems that you clearly don't want accept Joshua because of miracles mentioned in Bible. Whereas I think that its a miracle that each of us a born on a rock that circles a furnace we call the sun, each to our own.

a reply to: glend

It seems that you clearly don't want accept Joshua because of miracles mentioned in Bible.

No. I don't accept Christianity because of its horrific history and immoral teachings.

So far the OP fell flat and..."Did you miss the topic of the post when you made your reply?"

Since this is being allowed to continue i have a few question for the assumptious.

1. How do you get people to believe in a person who did NOT exist? I mean before this person was already established to exist.

2. What other people are though to have existed BUT did NOT exist? I cannot think of any.

The answer i have come up with for the first one, pertaining to Jesus, is there was never a break in what we term today "Christians". Anyone can still take a crack at question one.

Getting back to the OP, I never thought of this quesition but a quick google search reveals that some images are termed Christograms.

a reply to: Harvin

What other people are though to have existed BUT did NOT exist? I cannot think of any.

Really? How about Adam and Eve? Seth, Noah, Nimrod? Job, Jonah, Samson, Moses? How about Osirus, Isis, Horus, Mithra, Serapis?

Heracles, Perseus, Odysseus, Oedipus, Aeneas, Odin, Thor, Loki, Arthur, Merlin, Paul Bunyan, John Henry ...

You know ... stories of heroes possibly originally founded on real people but which became, without a shadow of a doubt in the mind of any reasonable person, mythological.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harvin

What other people are though to have existed BUT did NOT exist? I cannot think of any.

Really? How about Adam and Eve? Seth, Noah, Nimrod? Job, Jonah, Samson, Moses? How about Osirus, Isis, Horus, Mithra, Serapis?

Really.

Show me where the ones who were once though to be real have been proven not to exist. You may also be aware that some of those were never never believed to have existed.

But Serapis did actually exist.

SOURCE

Gryphon66,

You are not serious or worse.

a reply to: Harvin

But Serapis did actually exist.

????

No. Serapis was not a real person.

Also, science has proven that Adam and Eve did NOT exist as the legend goes.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Harvin

But Serapis did actually exist.

????

No. Serapis was not a real person.

Also, science has proven that Adam and Eve did NOT exist as the legend goes.

I am not concerned with Adam and Eve since they do not meet the SIMPLE criteria i laid out...or actually we will never know. I am mostly an agnostic...at this point and to some degree anyway. Even ifwhen i post in the evolution threads.

Serapis: The link sates " there is evidence which implies Serapis existed before the Ptolemies came to power". People can also be referring to different Serapis'. Just really a matter of what you read. Still, there are no current followers of Serapis today and for all we know there NEVER were.

Many, as you should know, were always considered to be either myths or gods, were never on earth or not written about as being an earthly being that people were known to interact with.

Please read the first question i asked and give an answer. In other words, how do you get the first people to believe a person existed when they really did not exist one that could not be easily proven. Jesus had believers since he existed and that is something that can be traced.

Gryphon's answers were not serious.

I think the answer to the OP's question is that painting depicting a hand signal is Jesus showing his name. Maybe he did that in visions.

Harvin,

In short ...

"LOL."

Unless you want to offer some evidence to the contrary rather than your mere statement.

My answers are deadly serious. All were chosen specifically because the myths and legends they represent were more than likely based on actual living people at some point, but were, as the stories were passed down, orally through generations, and certainly after any professional priesthoods got involved, the end results were pure myth.

Like Jesus and his walking on water, etc.

Unless you actually believe that ancient Greeks killed snake-headed women, giant lions, etc.

/shrug.

originally posted by: Harvin


1. How do you get people to believe in a person who did NOT exist? I mean before this person was already established to exist.

Well for one you get people to tell stories or write about them just like how Josephus wrote about Jesus and he wrote about Hercules!

So why aren't you worshiping Hercules again?

How did people come to worship any of the 1,000s maybe even 1,000,000s of gods/deities throughout history. Are you suggesting they all exist or existed at one point or even now?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Harvin,

In short ...

"LOL."

Unless you want to offer some evidence to the contrary rather than your mere statement.

My answers are deadly serious. All were chosen specifically because the myths and legends they represent were more than likely based on actual living people at some point, but were, as the stories were passed down, orally through generations, and certainly after any professional priesthoods got involved, the end results were pure myth.

Like Jesus and his walking on water, etc.

Unless you actually believe that ancient Greeks killed snake-headed women, giant lions, etc.

/shrug.

Here are your examples:

Heracles, Perseus, Odysseus, Oedipus, Aeneas, Odin, Thor, Loki, Arthur, Merlin, Paul Bunyan, John Henry ...

Grant it, i have to look for "John Henry", i know about "Frum" etc.

Taking your other examples (the majority of which i am familiar), they are folklore and widely known as such. Those examples are so far into the grey that we can just write them off. We know they are stories and always have.

As most can easily separate, we can leave he miracles out for this.

a reply to: Harvin

Based on WHAT evidence? Josephus wrote about Heracles as if he were real, including the Church Father Eusebius, who gave dates for his reign as king of Argos.


Read Geoffrey of Monmouth and "The Kings of Britain" for a similar treatment of Arthur (and Merlin for that matter).

I think you need to do a bit more reading before you state your inaccurate "knowledge" as fact.

a reply to: Harvin

We know they are stories and always have.

Do you really think people didn't believe in their Gods and Goddesses until your flavor of religion was thought up?

Let me correct your statement. "We know they are all stories and always have except some people still cling to their personal flavor of religious characters thinking that is an exception"

In Norse mythology, earthquakes were explained as the violent struggling of the god Loki. When Loki, god of mischief and strife, murdered Baldr, god of beauty and light, he was punished by being bound in a cave with a poisonous serpent placed above his head dripping venom. Loki's wife Sigyn stood by him with a bowl to catch the poison, but whenever she had to empty the bowl the poison would drip on Loki's face, forcing him to jerk his head away and thrash against his bonds, causing the earth to tremble.

In Greek mythology, Poseidon was the cause and god of earthquakes. When he was in a bad mood, he would strike the ground with a trident, causing this and other calamities. He also used earthquakes to punish and inflict fear upon people as revenge.

Mythology - Gods and Goddesses

originally posted by: Harvin


1. How do you get people to believe in a person who did NOT exist? I mean before this person was already established to exist.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Well for one you get people to tell stories or write about them just like how Josephus wrote about Jesus and he wrote about Hercules!

So why aren't you worshiping Hercules again?

How did people come to worship any of the 1,000s maybe even 1,000,000s of gods/deities throughout history. Are you suggesting they all exist or existed at one point or even now?

If Josephus wrote about Hercules and did not specifically indicate he was writing fiction then what makes you think this Hercules was not real?

You are overlooking that when Josephus was writing Christians already existed and can be traced to have existed since Jesus' times.


"How did people come to worship any of the 1,000s maybe even 1,000,000s of gods/deities throughout history."

The whole sentence is debatable. Many may not have ever been viewed seriously and that should be obvious since fiction and satire has been around long time.

a reply to: Harvin

Many may not have ever been viewed seriously and that should be obvious since fiction and satire has been around long time.

Well that sucks considering all the human and animal sacrifices throughout history for satire purposes.

So do you actually believe that it was only when your personal flavor of religion came around that people thought "well this $#!t must be real"?

It seems you are overlooking pretty much all of history.

a reply to: Harvin

Serapis: The link states " there is evidence which implies Serapis existed before the Ptolemies came to power".

Yes, there is evidence that "Serapis" was an older hybrid of Horus and it was used to build the new mythology of the desired cult of Serapis in order to bring harmony to Greece and Egypt through a universal religion.

There is plenty of hard evidence that Serapis was widely worshiped and it is documented that hundreds of temples that were dedicated to Serapis were raided and destroyed or converted by Christians immediately after the Council of Nicaea edict.

If you want to know what the people of the 1st century thought of Serapis you can read Plutarch's "Thrice-Greatest Hermes" and his Isis and Osiris

There is no occasion to be surprised at the revamping of these words into Greek. The fact is that countless other words went forth in company with those who migrated from Greece, and persist even to this day as strangers in strange lands; Fand, when the poetic art would recall some of these into use, those who speak of such words as strange or unusual falsely accuse it of using barbarisms. Moreover, they record that in the so‑called books of Hermes it is written in regard to the sacred names that they call the power which is assigned to direct the revolution of the Sun Horus, but the Greeks call it Apollo; and the power assigned to the wind some call Osiris and others Serapis; and Sothis in Egyptian signifies "pregnancy" (cyesis) or "to be pregnant" (cyein): therefore in Greek, with a change of accent, the star is called the Dog-star (Cyon), which they regard as the special star of Isis. Least of all is there any need of being very eager in learning about these names. However, I would rather make a concession to the Egyptians in regard to Serapis than in regard to Osiris; for I regard Serapis as foreign, but Osiris as Greek, and both as belonging to one god and one power.
penelope.uchicago.edu...*/D.htm
Isis and Osirus 1 0f 5l

The links to creation of the Serapis Cult and that of the Jesus Cult are acute, but, that's another thread altogether.

ETA: Another source: sacred-texts.com...

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Harvin

Many may not have ever been viewed seriously and that should be obvious since fiction and satire has been around long time.

Well that sucks considering all the human and animal sacrifices throughout history for satire purposes.

So do you actually believe that it was only when your personal flavor of religion came around that people thought "well this $#!t must be real"?

It seems you are overlooking pretty much all of history.

I never knew that history included "1,000s maybe even 1,000,000s of gods/deities" And my response is not overlooking history.

Yes. The images of Christ are images of the beast. Most depictions portray the Oculus in the background, behind his head, symbolising the time and space trap that enslaves us all. a reply to: SuspendedBelief