Russian convoy crosses Ukraine border

I think its pretty obvious to everyone here that Russia is pushing the line further and further until Europe actually does something other then sanctions.

The US isnt going to put a hand military into this because they are still backing isreal and iraq.

So i say if the European Union is supposed to mean anything then this is their stage or they are going to have a lot of cold people come winter.

So it seems Russia has taken some initiative in regards to humanitarian aid. But why is the US condemning this? If it is just to help the innocent victims of this horrible conflict. Is the US simply jealous (don't think that is the word I am looking for) that Russia is stepping into foreign affairs?

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: Shepard64

They can't all be loaded with weapons, if any at all. Either way the people in that area need food, water and medical supplies asap, because the only thing there fellow countrymen in Kiev are supplying to them right now is a bunch of artillery shells on their heads.

Then why did Russia not simply allow the Red Cross to take over and deliver it as planned? Clearly because Russia is intent on doing something they shouldnt.

They already did, 3 days ago www.reuters.com...

No, they did not.

The charges coincide with Russia’s decision to move a convoy of more than 200 trucks into Ukraine on Friday without either government permission or the participation of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).

www.washingtonpost.com... html

Russia kept saying they would allow the ICRC to take over, then did nothing to make it happen, then moved without ICRC support.

So again I ask, why did Russia not allow the ICRC to take over?

Your source may be whack but from the Reuters article a direct quote from Geneva:

"An advance ICRC team crossed into eastern Ukraine this morning, having received security guarantees from groups controlling the territory for this mission. The team is checking conditions of the road, and the general situation, and establishing contacts in preparation for the passage of the convoy," ICRC spokesman Ewan Watson told Reuters in Geneva.

Yes. the ICRC team went there to take control of the convoy. Russia did not hand it over. Why do you ignore my question. Why did Russia refuse to let the ICRC take over as they said they would?

originally posted by: Shepard64
So it seems Russia has taken some initiative in regards to humanitarian aid. But why is the US condemning this? If it is just to help the innocent victims of this horrible conflict. Is the US simply jealous (don't think that is the word I am looking for) that Russia is stepping into foreign affairs?

Because that is not at all what is happening. Russia tried to send a convoy in without anyone knowing. They were called out on it saying it was weapons. Russia said no it wasn't, they agreed to let the ICRC take over as proof. The ICRC gets there, Russia refuses to let them take over and sends it in themselves.

If they were interested in aid they would have cooperated with the ICRC and the aid would have been there days ago.

originally posted by: Nathabeanz
I think its pretty obvious to everyone here that Russia is pushing the line further and further until Europe actually does something other then sanctions.

The US isnt going to put a hand military into this because they are still backing isreal and iraq.

So i say if the European Union is supposed to mean anything then this is their stage or they are going to have a lot of cold people come winter.

Why should Russia care? The sanctions already imposed on them were based on crap anyway, when the West attemped to link Russia to the MH-17 downing and it failed, note how quickly they pulled other excuses out their asses and still failed to provide evidence for any of it.

What's more disturbing, the people in that part of the country can't even rely on their own supposed government for aid, instead it's artillery strikes. Who's really pulling the strings in Kiev now, are they even Ukranian?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I recall the Red Cross saying in a earlier piece that they were making their own plans separate from the plans of the Russians . a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, the ICRC was supposed to take the Russian convoy, it's well documented. Russia then refused to let them.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: Dolby_X
a reply to: Shepard64

www.abovetopsecret.com... this one as exemple

try the search engine

On glance of the articles it appears they went in with approval of the Red Cross and basically told Kiev to get lost, well played, the people need aid

Maybe you should do more than glance .. because it flat out states the opposite.

MOSCOW — After a nearly 10-day standoff, at least 145 trucks of a Russian humanitarian convoy crossed into Ukraine on Friday without the permission of Ukrainian authorities or the accompaniment of the International Committee of the Red Cross

do you have a link to this well documented piece . link please a reply to: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: Dolby_X
a reply to: Shepard64

www.abovetopsecret.com... this one as exemple

try the search engine

On glance of the articles it appears they went in with approval of the Red Cross and basically told Kiev to get lost, well played, the people need aid

Maybe you should do more than glance .. because it flat out states the opposite.

MOSCOW — After a nearly 10-day standoff, at least 145 trucks of a Russian humanitarian convoy crossed into Ukraine on Friday without the permission of Ukrainian authorities or the accompaniment of the International Committee of the Red Cross

It says "accompaniment", not without cooperation which as stated earlier in the thread, the Red Cross gave.

No Russia took the initiative to supply and bring in militants and resources after the annexation of crimea. Then imo told everyone else go **** yourself regardless of the international community's opinion.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: Dolby_X
a reply to: Shepard64

www.abovetopsecret.com... this one as exemple

try the search engine

On glance of the articles it appears they went in with approval of the Red Cross and basically told Kiev to get lost, well played, the people need aid

Maybe you should do more than glance .. because it flat out states the opposite.

MOSCOW — After a nearly 10-day standoff, at least 145 trucks of a Russian humanitarian convoy crossed into Ukraine on Friday without the permission of Ukrainian authorities or the accompaniment of the International Committee of the Red Cross

It says "accompaniment", not without cooperation which as stated earlier in the thread, the Red Cross gave.

What cooperation did they give? They were cooperating as far as discussing how the transition will go .. then Russia STOPPED cooperating by refusing to hand the convoy over.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: Dolby_X
a reply to: Shepard64

www.abovetopsecret.com... this one as exemple

try the search engine

On glance of the articles it appears they went in with approval of the Red Cross and basically told Kiev to get lost, well played, the people need aid

Maybe you should do more than glance .. because it flat out states the opposite.

MOSCOW — After a nearly 10-day standoff, at least 145 trucks of a Russian humanitarian convoy crossed into Ukraine on Friday without the permission of Ukrainian authorities or the accompaniment of the International Committee of the Red Cross

It says "accompaniment", not without cooperation which as stated earlier in the thread, the Red Cross gave.

What cooperation did they give? They were cooperating as far as discussing how the transition will go .. then Russia STOPPED cooperating by refusing to hand the convoy over.

The Independent:

The Red Cross tweeted this morning: "The #Russian #AidConvoy is moving into #Ukraine, but we are not escorting it due to the volatile security situation.

www.independent.co.uk...

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
do you have a link to this well documented piece . link please a reply to: OccamsRazor04

How does RT.com strike you as a source.

The ICRC said it was informed by Moscow that the convoy had been dispatched, but had yet to receive detailed shipping lists and distribution plans.

“The situation is changing by the hour and right now we are not in a position to provide further details now as to how this operation could take place,” ICRC spokesperson Anastasiya Isyuk told RT.

rt.com...

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
do you have a link to this well documented piece . link please a reply to: OccamsRazor04

How does RT.com strike you as a source.

The ICRC said it was informed by Moscow that the convoy had been dispatched, but had yet to receive detailed shipping lists and distribution plans.

“The situation is changing by the hour and right now we are not in a position to provide further details now as to how this operation could take place,” ICRC spokesperson Anastasiya Isyuk told RT.

rt.com...

So it means what to you exactly?

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: Dolby_X
a reply to: Shepard64

www.abovetopsecret.com... this one as exemple

try the search engine

On glance of the articles it appears they went in with approval of the Red Cross and basically told Kiev to get lost, well played, the people need aid

Maybe you should do more than glance .. because it flat out states the opposite.

MOSCOW — After a nearly 10-day standoff, at least 145 trucks of a Russian humanitarian convoy crossed into Ukraine on Friday without the permission of Ukrainian authorities or the accompaniment of the International Committee of the Red Cross

It says "accompaniment", not without cooperation which as stated earlier in the thread, the Red Cross gave.

What cooperation did they give? They were cooperating as far as discussing how the transition will go .. then Russia STOPPED cooperating by refusing to hand the convoy over.

The Independent:

The Red Cross tweeted this morning: "The #Russian #AidConvoy is moving into #Ukraine, but we are not escorting it due to the volatile security situation.

www.independent.co.uk...

So then you finally admit Russia went in without the ICRC. Russia refused to deal with the ICRC, and when the ICRC asked for basic information it was not provided. All Russia had to do was speak to the rebels and get assurances and work with the ICRC, they refused to do so, they were going in solo all along.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
do you have a link to this well documented piece . link please a reply to: OccamsRazor04

How does RT.com strike you as a source.

The ICRC said it was informed by Moscow that the convoy had been dispatched, but had yet to receive detailed shipping lists and distribution plans.

“The situation is changing by the hour and right now we are not in a position to provide further details now as to how this operation could take place,” ICRC spokesperson Anastasiya Isyuk told RT.

rt.com...

So it means what to you exactly?

That Russia was saying they would hand over the convoy to the ICRC. The poster I replied to said Russia never said they would the ICRC was working on a different convoy. That is false.

Good, at least they're doing something, I have more trust for them right now than I do the West in Ukraine.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Propaganda at best


from the redcross themself

We've not received sufficient security guarantees from the fighting parties. Our team in #Lugansk reports heavy shelling overnight. #Ukraine

twitter.com...

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Good, at least they're doing something, I have more trust for them right now than I do the West in Ukraine.

Why is this good when they claimed they would work with the ICRC and hand it over, Ukraine accepted, and Russia refused. How is them lying good? Apparently there was an SAM system with the convoy .. why does a traveling convoy need a SAM system that needs to be stationary to operate?

originally posted by: Dolby_X
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Propaganda at best


from the redcross themself

We've not received sufficient security guarantees from the fighting parties. Our team in #Lugansk reports heavy shelling overnight. #Ukraine

twitter.com...

Why would the shelling stop? The ICRC has not taken control. Ukraine was working with the ICRC, it's proven from the ICRC Russia was not. Even RT states as much.