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originally posted by: grainofsand
originally posted by: NavyDoc
originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: NavyDoc
Not so many shot, or killed by beatings I note.
Smaller country so of course smaller sample, but are you really trying to suggest that UK police are as bad as US cops?
NO, I'm just pointing out that everybody has their problems. US cops are not by and large as awful as media reports/sterotypes and UK cops are not as jolly hail fellow well met as their stereotypes either.
True, but some places are nicer to live than others in the world. It is my opinion that there are far greater incidents of police brutality/killings (per capita) in the US than the UK...do you disagree?
In my police area (Devon & Cornwall Constabulary) in the summer we have less than 20 arresting officers available at any given time for 100,000 citizens. I discussed it here: Is it police numbers or a nice environment that keeps the peace, or is it just a crazy mix?
...and although police areas vary around the UK our stats of killings and beatings by police are much lower than found in the US. Do feel free to provide referenced sources to indicate my assertions are innacurate though, I am always happy to be corrected and learn new information when approriate.
The number of full-time sworn personnel per
100,000 residents increased from 250 in 2004 to
251 in 2008.
Fifteen of the 50 largest local police departments
employed fewer full-time sworn personnel in 2008
than in 2004. The largest declines were in Detroit
(36%), Memphis (23%), New Orleans (13%), and San
Francisco (10%).
So, in total figures for my local police force, there are 4032 people who can legally detain a suspected criminal, for up to 30 minutes at least, in the biggest police area in England, and a population which fluctuates between 1.5 million in Winter, to 8 million during Summer
originally posted by: NavyDoc
Outside of the big cities, crime and incidents are basically on par with that of the UK. Like your country some crappy places drive up the statistics for the whole. In addition, media coverage can certainly skew the perception, yes?
originally posted by: grainofsand
originally posted by: NavyDoc
Outside of the big cities, crime and incidents are basically on par with that of the UK. Like your country some crappy places drive up the statistics for the whole. In addition, media coverage can certainly skew the perception, yes?
Yes, absolutely.
We can agree that shootings and beatings by, on, and between citizens and police in inner city areas are more likely than in less populated rural or coastal areas.
Can we agree that inner cities in the UK have a much lower per capita police shooting/killing/beating rate than the US?
If not, no worries as I always enjoy reasoned debate, but it's been a UK public holiday today so after a long weekend I'm not into searching stats to support my case tonight. If you feel more awake than me though, please feel free to hit me with referenced sources to shoot me down...like I always say, I'm always happy to be shown as incorrect as I learn something new.
originally posted by: NavyDoc
In your other thread, you said this:
So, in total figures for my local police force, there are 4032 people who can legally detain a suspected criminal, for up to 30 minutes at least, in the biggest police area in England, and a population which fluctuates between 1.5 million in Winter, to 8 million during Summer
So take the average, say 4 million and divide that by 4032 officers with detention powers and you get 992.063 officers per 100,000. It seems that with more men on the street, public order would be expected to be better.
originally posted by: grainofsand
originally posted by: NavyDoc
In your other thread, you said this:
So, in total figures for my local police force, there are 4032 people who can legally detain a suspected criminal, for up to 30 minutes at least, in the biggest police area in England, and a population which fluctuates between 1.5 million in Winter, to 8 million during Summer
So take the average, say 4 million and divide that by 4032 officers with detention powers and you get 992.063 officers per 100,000. It seems that with more men on the street, public order would be expected to be better.
Ah, you must have missed the bit where those 4032 arresting officers have to be divided into either a 12 or 8 hour shift rota which takes into account sickness, weekends, and holidays.
I thought I had researched and presented the information in that thread quite well, I apologise if the information was not clear enough for you good self.
originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: NavyDoc
I would be interested to find out, and I guess it will be as easy as it was for me with official published figures describing 'arresting officers' not just 'overall staff', if the US publishes such figures.
With an armed police force I would guess less officers needed, but with an armed population that would surely cancel the weapon advantage out?
...all I know is that I read more about police shootings/beatings that happen in the US compared to the UK, and even if we consider that the UK is a fifth of the US population, I would expect close to a fifth of the mobile phone footage if our police were the same as the US.
originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: NavyDoc
Missed your post, lol at that joke, I've heard it before, nice one.
You may have a point that my regional population is swelled with people from all over the world wanting a happy time in the summer, and you feel it as you walk around. It rubs off on the cops, they are chilled and friendly enough for the female tourists to take a 'selfie' wearing their caps and helmets.
originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: NavyDoc
I would be interested to find out, and I guess it will be as easy as it was for me with official published figures describing 'arresting officers' not just 'overall staff', if the US publishes such figures.
With an armed police force I would guess less officers needed, but with an armed population that would surely cancel the weapon advantage out?
...all I know is that I read more about police shootings/beatings that happen in the US compared to the UK, and even if we consider that the UK is a fifth of the US population, I would expect close to a fifth of the mobile phone footage if our police were the same as the US.
originally posted by: KingIcarus
I don't believe we're more 'free' in any meaningful sense than our friends in the US - but I also don't think Americans are really any 'freer' than anyone else in pretty much all the first world either.
I've never heard a convincing argument to support the idea that American Freedom is substantially different or better.