Breaking: Whistle blower at CDC recants study "disproving" vaccine autism link.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

Why on earth would you need to blind a study on vaccines/autism link? Autism isn't exactly a placebo effect. Anyway, denying ignorance and all that, here's a study where they compared the autism and vaccine rates of an entire country:

www.nejm.org...

METHODS
We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark. MMR-vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses received by patients in psychiatric hospitals and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark.
Full Text of Methods...
RESULTS
Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.
Full Text of Results...
CONCLUSIONS
This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: rickymouse
Again where is the evidence to support this? Why 5 safe vaccinations? What makes you think mmr combines with other vaccinations to cause autism? it is not a case of people not accepting research it is that there is an absence of research supporting the claims you are making.

Right, it seems that they are avoiding researching the safety of multiple vaccines in this country. No evidence if nobody is researching it. The evidence from the study I have talked about is not accepted in this country because it does not follow the required parameters. It doesn't mean the evidence is not real, just that it is not accepted. So how come they haven't checked if this is true in this country, probably because it is counterproductive to the industries that make medicines.

Now, it would be nice if someone would actually test things instead of saying that there is no evidence. This is a good way of hiding the truth, NIH is even guilty of this. Yet in another of their own articles NIH verifies some of the stuff they say there was no evidence of is real. Don't some of the NIH authors even check the NIH research databases. You can't do a closed loop search, the evidence is in research in different testing parameters sometimes. The wording on a search is critical to find what you want, some of their articles need specific wording to locate. I suppose the scientists do not know that the evidence is hidden in their own files under a different name.

a reply to: rickymouse

There have been lots of studies researching the safety of multiple vaccines as well as the whole vaccine/autism link:

www2.aap.org...

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: rickymouse

There have been lots of studies researching the safety of multiple vaccines:

www2.aap.org...

But we are being steered to look in a certain direction. The article I read did not say it was multiple vaccines creating a problem with the immune system directly, it was causing a change in the gene expression which caused changes in body chemistry to compensate which could possibly cause something like autism to occur. None of the articles in the US research even touch on gene expression and various consequences of the vaccines on it.

The article I read did note that this does not occur unless there are many vaccines within a short time. They were trying to find a way to reverse this and were concentrating on a medicine to stop it if it happens.

I Wish I Could Locate this article, it was a good article. I should have bookmarked it.....Maybe I should check if I did.

Maybe I listed this article in another thread in the past also, it was only between six months and a year ago that I read this.

I couldn't find it in my book marks but was examining stuff on GoPubMed and remembered more. Vaccines stimulate an inflamatory response and when it is stimulated to long it triggers some gene expression as a response which can be linked to causing multiple diseases. But this isn't considered really an immune response in science, it is just the way the body works.

a reply to: rickymouse
You are looking at it from the point of view of establishing a mechanism for vaccination to cause autism . However that ignores the fact that the overwhelming evidence is that there is no link. If there was there would be a relationship between vaccination rates and autism rates . That has been studied and no relationship ever found.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

Why on earth would you need to blind a study on vaccines/autism link? Autism isn't exactly a placebo effect. Anyway, denying ignorance and all that, here's a study where they compared the autism and vaccine rates of an entire country:

www.nejm.org...

METHODS
We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark. MMR-vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses received by patients in psychiatric hospitals and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark.
Full Text of Methods...
RESULTS
Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.
Full Text of Results...
CONCLUSIONS
This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.

Ah the Danish study.

This study you have cited has NO credibility and should have been retracted.

The lead researcher was none other than Poul Thorsen.

www.nejm.org...
Kreesten Meldgaard Madsen, M.D., Anders Hviid, M.Sc., Mogens Vestergaard, M.D., Diana Schendel, Ph.D., Jan Wohlfahrt, M.Sc., Poul Thorsen, M.D., Jørn Olsen, M.D., and Mads Melbye, M.D.

Mr Poul Thorsen allegedly stole over a million from a study he was paid to do and is STILL on the run.

This is THE main paper that has been constantly been used over the last decade to defend against vaccine causing autism claims. Why would they not retract a paper who's lead researcher is a probable criminal and NOT trustworthy?

...because it says exactly what they wanted it to say.

www.justice.gov...
Thorsen Allegedly Absconded With Over $1 Million

ATLANTA, GA - POUL THORSEN, 49, of Denmark, has been indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of wire fraud and money laundering based on a scheme to steal grant money the CDC had awarded to governmental agencies in Denmark for autism research.

United States Attorney Sally Quillian Yates said of the case, “Grant money for disease research is a precious commodity. When grant funds are stolen, we lose not only the money, but also the opportunity to better understand and cure debilitating diseases. This defendant is alleged to have orchestrated a scheme to steal over $1 million in CDC grant money earmarked for autism research. We will now seek the defendant’s extradition for him to face federal charges in the United States.”

“Stealing research grant money to line his pockets, as Poul Thorsen stands accused of here today, cheats U.S. taxpayers and will simply not be tolerated,” said Derrick L. Jackson, Special Agent in Charge of the Atlanta Region for the Office of Inspector General of the Department of Health & Human Services. “HHS/OIG will continue to work closely with our law enforcement partners to bring these criminals to justice.”

Reginael D. McDaniel, Special Agent in Charge of the Atlanta Region for Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation said, “Today’s global economy demands a high-level coordinated approach by multiple agencies and authorities in the investigation of financial crimes. While schemes often become more sophisticated over time, fortunately, so do our investigative techniques. IRS Criminal Investigation is proud to have shared its hallmark expertise in following the money trail in the scheme alleged in this indictment.”

According to United States Attorney Yates, the charges and other information presented in court: In the 1990s, THORSEN worked as a visiting scientist at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Division of Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, when the CDC was soliciting grant applications for research related to infant disabilities. THORSEN successfully promoted the idea of awarding the grant to Denmark and provided input and guidance for the research to be conducted. From 2000 to 2009, the CDC awarded over $11 million to two governmental agencies in Denmark to study the relationship between autism and exposure to vaccines, between cerebral palsy and infection during pregnancy, and between childhood development and fetal alcohol exposure. In 2002, THORSEN moved to Denmark and became the principal investigator for the grant, responsible for administering the research money awarded by the CDC.

a reply to: riley

Ad hominem much? Critique the science, not the person. Ironic considering your savior Mr Wakefield falsified his data so he could make a quick buck on his own replacement vaccine.

While you're at it, make some headway at debunking all of these papers:

www2.aap.org...

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: riley

Ad hominem much? Critique the science, not the person. Ironic considering your savior Mr Wakefield falsified his data so he could make a quick buck on his own replacement vaccine.

While you're at it, make some headway at debunking all of these papers:

www2.aap.org...

The lead scientist is a fugitive for (allegedly) stealing millions from that same study he was paid to do.

..and don't start getting in with personal attacks. So Wakefield is my hero is he? I didn't even mention him.

If Wakefield's study has flaws enough to have it retracted, a study that was led by a criminal who embezzled money from it should be as well. If a scientist has committed fraud on a grand scale it is not unreasonable to question the credibility of his science.

Oh I'm not going to bother even looking at whatever papers you posted you're just changing the topic. You could post a hundred research papers disproving a link but it's not going to change the fact that there is real evidence that some of the vaccine/autism research is dodgy.

a reply to: riley

Ad hominem again. There are many authors on that paper, the person in question wasn't even the lead author. So again, do you have any criticism of the methodology, data and conclusions of the study?

Also, have you read all of the other papers I linked to? Probably not. I'll await your debunking of those papers as well.

Oh I'm not going to bother even looking at whatever papers you posted you're just changing the topic.

Is that French for "I can't debunk those studies"? Staying on topic, let's start with that first paper. Critique away, my friend!

Just because one person involved in a study steals money, doesn't mean the study is not relevant.

I am not limited from looking at studies done only in the US. The US knew of side effects of squalene in vaccines yet their information on this was not published so the Europeans made the same mistake and caused harm. Why wasn't the squalene information published? Probably because it would have admitted liability of the companies that used it. They bury their mistakes here, not letting anyone know what they did.

I was surprised to see that the Europeans actually admitted they screwed up openly. Not here in America, they bury the evidence in the bottom of the outhouse with a bunch of crap on top so nobody can find it. I only know about this because the American companies kind of said, we already knew that, we don't allow it after we made our mistakes.

Why can't these places get together and tell other countries of what they know so the same mistakes are not repeated. Why do people think that they are smarter and this stuff will work for them when it failed for others. I see that everywhere. I know a guy who expanded his business and the stress is going to kill him like it did his father. He thinks he can do better than his father yet is going on the same path, his heart is giving out from the constant stress and many hours of work. Yet he thinks he is going to succeed. Maybe his widow will be happy.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: riley

Ad hominem again. There are many authors on that paper, the person in question wasn't even the lead author. So again, do you have any criticism of the methodology, data and conclusions of the study?

Actually Poul Thorsen was the lead author/director. He was in charge of writing the final conclusions. Heis now on the run for FRAUD and grand theft over stealing money the same study he was commissioned to do. If a lead scientist is of questionable integrity it is not unreasonable to question the integrity of his work.

Also, have you read all of the other papers I linked to? Probably not. I'll await your debunking of those papers as well.

Oh I'm not going to bother even looking at whatever papers you posted you're just changing the topic.

Is that French for "I can't debunk those studies"? Staying on topic, let's start with that first paper. Critique away, my friend!

You can critique away as well against studies that DO prove a causal link between vaccines and autism:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997-2002.

Gallagher CM1, Goodman MS.

Author information
1PhD Program in Population Health and Clinical Outcomes Research, Stony Brook University Medical Center, State University of New York at Stony Brook, Stony Brook, New York, USA. [email protected]

Abstract

Universal hepatitis B vaccination was recommended for U.S. newborns in 1991; however, safety findings are mixed. The association between hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and parental report of autism diagnosis was determined. This cross-sectional study used weighted probability samples obtained from National Health Interview Survey 1997-2002 data sets. Vaccination status was determined from the vaccination record. Logistic regression was used to estimate the odds for autism diagnosis associated with neonatal hepatitis B vaccination among boys age 3-17 years, born before 1999, adjusted for race, maternal education, and two-parent household. Boys vaccinated as neonates had threefold greater odds for autism diagnosis compared to boys never vaccinated or vaccinated after the first month of life. Non-Hispanic white boys were 64% less likely to have autism diagnosis relative to nonwhite boysFindings suggest that U.S. male neonates vaccinated with the hepatitis B vaccine prior to 1999 (from vaccination record) had a threefold higher risk for parental report of autism diagnosis compared to boys not vaccinated as neonates during that same time period. Nonwhite boys bore a greater risk.

Conincentally African American males are said to have a greater risk with hep b vaccination which is consistent with what the whistle-blower has said they covered up in other studies.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.

Delong G.

Author information
Department of Economics and Finance, Baruch College/City University of New York, New York, New York, USA. [email protected]

Abstract

The reason for the rapid rise of autism in the United States that began in the 1990s is a mystery. Although individuals probably have a genetic predisposition to develop autism, researchers suspect that one or more environmental triggers are also needed. One of those triggers might be the battery of vaccinations that young children receive. Using regression analysis and controlling for family income and ethnicity, the relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2007 was determined. A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having AUT or SLI. Neither parental behavior nor access to care affected the results, since vaccination proportions were not significantly related (statistically) to any other disability or to the number of pediatricians in a U.S. state. The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, other culprits may link vaccines to autism. Further study into the relationship between vaccines and autism is warranted.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Abnormal measles-mumps-rubella antibodies and CNS autoimmunity in children with autism.

Singh VK1, Lin SX, Newell E, Nelson C.

Author information
1Department of Biology and Biotechnology Center, Utah State University, Logan, Utah 84322, USA. [email protected]

Abstract

(Snip) This antibody specifically detected a protein of 73-75 kD of MMR. This protein band, as analyzed with monoclonal antibodies, was immunopositive for measles hemagglutinin (HA) protein but not for measles nucleoprotein and rubella or mumps viral proteins. Thus the MMR antibody in autistic sera detected measles HA protein, which is unique to the measles subunit of the vaccine. Furthermore, over 90% of MMR antibody-positive autistic sera were also positive for MBP autoantibodies, suggesting a strong association between MMR and CNS autoimmunity in autism. Stemming from this evidence, we suggest that an inappropriate antibody response to MMR, specifically the measles component thereof, might be related to pathogenesis of autism.

Copyright 2002 National Science Council, ROC and S. Karger AG, Basel

As already said this isn't about debunking all other autism/vaccine studies. I too have many I can post and that you can try debunk yourself however THIS topic is about a study where a CURRENT CDC employee whistle blower has actually come forward about fraud. Someone mentioned another study to try vindicate the CDC yet that study's director is a criminal; so I explained why that research is not reputable. Unless you can come up with a magical way of proving that Poul Thorsen will only commit fraud to steal money and not to manipulate results of the study he was payed to do? Sorry but there is no way you can prove he has integrity as a scientist while he's on the run from US authorities for being a thief.

If you REALLY want stay ON TOPIC prove that the whistle blower is lying and the fraud he claims took place didn't happen, and prove that Poul Thorsen is only dishonest when stealing money from CDC scientific research grants and not dishonest with his scientific research.

originally posted by: rileyAs already said this isn't about debunking all other autism/vaccine studies.

How convenient! Allow me to get the ball rolling for you:

1st paper you cite debunked here, here and here

2nd paper you cite debunked here, here, here, here, here and even by the paper's author here!

3rd paper you cite debunked here:

Singh’s work has not been replicated. [edited to add]As Paul Offit wrote on page 45 of Autism's False Prophets,

...a closer look at Singh's science revealed two critical flaws: children with autism didn't have nerve damage and, according to measles experts, the test that Singh had used to detect measles antibodies didn't detect them.
Multiple studies in multiple countries with tens of thousands of subjects have repeatedly failed to find an association between measles vaccine and autism.

Multiple studies in multiple countries with tens of thousands of subjects have repeatedly failed to find an association between measles vaccine and autism.

www.immunizationinfo.org...
www.immunizationinfo.org...

lizditz.typepad.com...

So you posted up a bunch of crappy and misleading studies to move the goalposts to avoid having to critique the studies I've posted. Let's get back on topic shall we? Lets hear your debunking of the Danish study as well as all the others I have linked to. Enough excuses. enough moving of the goalposts, let's here what your top mind has to say about the methodology, results and conclusions of these studies.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I think it's quite possible, from watching that video, that the vaccine industry might, just might be a MUCH deeper and insidious and far reaching conspiracy than it might at first appear.

After studying vaccine related subjects for quite some time, i imagined that the primary thrust of the ever increasing vaccine industry, the stacks of more and more vaccines being pumped into our kids at VERY early ages was simply the age old one -- money.

While money is obviously a main component of the industry, i don't believe it is the primary focus...what is?

Well...look at the video again and if you haven't made a mental note of the one sentence that ought to trigger sirens going off in the reasoning centres of your brain, look out for it...the sentence that when looked at in terms of what was done to the African American population for that Syphilis 'study' that went on for years and years, effectively murdering those infected to test the results, becomes more of a light-bulb moment.

What is the sentence?

"Black boys, for whatever reason, are twice as likely to develop autism from vaccines than white boys..."

Twice as likely to be brain damaged, twice as likely...

COULD the primary drive of the vaccine industry, aside from money, be to deliberately brain damage young, black kids at an average of 2 X the rate of white kids with a view to ultimately reducing the black race to a dribbling moronic and passive and easily controllable race?

The white kids being damaged at a rate of around half that of black kids on average,..are they considered acceptable casualties in the programme to control the black kids?

Who knows.

The doubling of the chances of developing autism spectrum brain disorders in black kids MIGHT be significant of a much more insidious and dark conspiracy than the usual suspects of money and shareholder dividends.

Considering the US's history of medical sanctioned violence and ambivalence towards the black community in America (as evidenced by the so-called Syphilis study mentioned in this video, coupled with the, in particular, US's broad and increasingly totalitarian drive towards heavy compulsory vaccination in very young children and infants, taking away parental choice and enforcing vaccination under the power of law, except in special circumstances, to compel parents to have their children injected...raised the hackles in me and the 'light bulb' moment happened.

Could be wrong, but think about it...if this mandatory multiple vaccination programme goes on as it is, and the black kids are twice as likely to be permanently brain damaged as white kids are...ultimately there will be a tipping point where the entire black population will be reduced to brain damaged, easily controllable and manipulated mentally incapable people, and anything that is done to them after that tipping point, can be done without the slightest resistance from them...they would become essentially slaves again.

Sounds far fetched...doesn't it?

You know who would be all over this if it were true? Ambulance chasing lawyers.

You would see a thousand ads for lawyers lining up to sue big pharmaceutical over this.

But it's not, so there aren't.

But do you know what is happening? Idiot parents aren't vaccinating their children and diseases this country had completely under control are making there way back.

Do you know what else is screwed up? When a thousand researchers say one thing, and one lone nut says another, people buying the lone nut's version. That's just stupid!

a reply to: HauntWok

Ambulance chasers know which side their bread is buttered.

If they go after the big boys, with 'the big one', or IOW, a suit that exposes the entire dirty industry and it's paid off doctors, researchers and agency officials hiding crucial data...they would not make it out intact and would be out of a career or worse.

They know this, and so while they chase the small fry claims, with a smidgen of bigger cases in the mix from a few brave and principled lawyers, the majority wouldn't want to go toe to toe over something as big and controversial as this would turn out to be if properly exposed in a court setting.

It simply wouldn't be 'allowed' to happen.

You've heard of 'too big to fail'?

This is another of those too big to fail industries...it won't happen by law, by government agency, by federal decree...the only way to stop this mayhem and corruption in the vaccine industry is by the power of parental choice and by more parents refusing to have their infants and babies injected with this crap.

Once enough stand their ground and refuse to allow their children to be damaged, the tide will turn, pharma corps will lose much of their power over policy and policy makers...and then the ambulance chasers will have a field day, but not before people say enough is enough.

Pharma has simply become too powerful, too ensconced and influential within government panels and research bodies and will not go quietly into the night to challenge them today...if enough people just say NO...tomorrow will be different.

a reply to: MysterX

What are you talking about? Lawyers sue big pharmaceutical al the time!

They sue for everything.

Viagra

Testosterone treatment

Risprodol

It goes on and on.

If there was a legitimate link between vaccines and autism, law firms would pile onfor a chunk of that pie!

I have no dog in this fight. I simply question the bigger picture motives. IF there were a link, does anyone think that it would see the light of day even if discovered? If there was even a 1% higher chance of developing autism due to vaccines (any vaccine), and it was publicized as valid, the rate of vaccination would plummet. This is the kind of thing that the CDC, AMA, big pharma etc. would do ANYTHING to prevent.

I am not saying that there is a link, just that we may someday find out that a lot of things were not as they were purported to be. I don't know what the anti-vaccine side has to gain, but there is a lot to gain in keeping vaccinations alive (both medically and monetarily) by the other side. It is like accepting that all of the peer reviewed studies showing fracking to be harmless must be true because they were peer reviewed and "independent".

Like I said, I have no personal interests in this argument but I will not be surprised if we find out someday that we were misled. It would not be the first time a "peer-reviewed agenda" was played on the people.

a reply to: HauntWok

OK, have your own way.

If you refuse to comprehend what i'm saying, there's little point in talking about it is there?

TOO BIG TO FAIL.

Viagra, testosterone et al, are NOT TOO BIG...deliberately concealing autism data linked to massive, multiple vaccination programmes perpetrated on 99% of American children...knowingly! IS TOO BIG.

Can't put it any simpler.

a reply to: MysterX

What?

To big to fall? That makes no sense, drug companies would settle out of court, a fraction of their profits would go to families and law firms and they would move on.

This would not crush them, not by a long shot.

Do you know why? Cause in order to sue, your kid would have to be autistic. If it were true, they would cut you a fat check and move on.

Please, this would just be the cost of doing business. That lawsuit wouldn't do squat to the drug companies.

Do you know what Risprodol is? It's an anti psychotic drug they give kids with autism, do you know what it can do? Give pre pubecent boys gynocomastia, yes, little boys can develop female breasts from taking this drug.

Drug companies are being sued for this, and they haven't taken Risprodol off the market.

And they aren't folding and going bankrupt either. If vaccines can cause autism, they would just settle out of court and go on their merry way.

a reply to: HauntWok

To big to fall? That makes no sense, drug companies would settle out of court, a fraction of their profits would go to families and law firms and they would move on. This would not crush them, not by a long shot.

Doesn't make sense? Wouldn't crush them?

Think again.

For the sake of ease, let's assume that 350 Million Americans have received vaccine from pharma...

Last year (2013) the vaccine market was worth around $30 Billion in profits to the top 11 vaccine producers.

$30 Billion, or put another way, $30 thousand Million, divided by the 350 million people vaccinated equals around a grand total of just $86 each...

Can you imagine what would happen to both the entire pharma industry if even 10% of America sued them in light of this information being validated?

They'd be suing for a hell of a lot more money than $860 each mate, that's for sure!

And if 20%, 30%, 80% of people sued for damages?

FAIL...and of course, the ramifications of such a failure, and the fall out and damage to governments and their agencies 'in on the scam', burying evidence and concealing data that would show damage and links correlating to vaccines...would be enormous.

As i said...too big to fail.

The pharma corps would never recover, heads would roll in government and it's agencies, elites would be placed on trail and imprisoned, some would suffer the ultimate penalty for their involvement...the government would probably fall and corporate power, across the board would be severely curtailed and subject to increased and tight scrutiny in the future.

Never going to happen, never would be allowed to happen.

Individual and class actions that won't threaten the entire apple cart and the scenario outlined above of course, ARE allowed, and give vaccine industry apologists and cheerleaders useful one liners to be able to say...essentially what you are saying mate.

This entire scam, if proven in court, would bring down corporations, governments and established academic and medical institutions right around the world, not just in the USA.

TOO BIG TO FAIL....much too big.