Good manners can now get you suspended

originally posted by: grandmakdw

The true Americans are the ones who have the guts to stand up and say, no more

"True Americans" -------- doesn't everyone just love that phrase.

Now, I'm sure you're gonna tell me exactly what a "True American" is.

a reply to: grandmakdw

That's great and all and like I've admitted in this thread, I did my own share of acting out. So I can relate. But this is totally just a stupid story and it isn't even the truth. She wasn't even punished for it. So there is no need for any outrage, the girl was just acting like a b# cause she could. Then went and whined to the media about it. My point is that this is a non-issue. Kids being kids.

a reply to: Annee

"True Americans" -------- doesn't everyone just love that phrase. Now, I'm sure you're gonna tell me exactly what a "True American" is.

Nope, that would be thread drift and get this thread closed faster than a cheetah on roller skates can get to its prey.

My point, the girl stood up for her constitutional rights.

The teacher was wrong.

The girl was brave and did the right thing, rather than the thing that would keep her out of trouble.

Being willing to compromise ones values just to keep the peace, when the values are so badly trashed as that teacher did, is far worse morally in my opinion than standing up for yourself and having to take punishment for doing the right thing.

It was exactly how our country was founded, standing up for what they believed in and taking a stand, and taking the beating that followed as a result and taking the beating (the war) rather than compromise values.

a reply to: grandmakdw

There is no proposed ban on anything by anyone. its the girl, Fox "news" and some people in this thread twisting the story into a Strawman.

It's a slippery slope people. They're already considering banning smoking on beaches in Oregon.

What's next.

I would have been offended by this rule when I was a christian. And even though I'm not a chrisitan now I'd still feel offended.

Why does "bless you" have to be religious???? How do you know if someone actually means it to be religious? This girl said it in the class not for religious reasons but because she felt it was her constitutional right. If there had never been this dumb rule to start with she'd never have a reason to stand up against it. The girl isn't saying she should be able to open a bible in class and minister to the sinners. She's just saying not being able to say "bless you" is not only decreasing our right to speak certain words but it's also discrimination in that it's assuming "bless you" is religious.

Idk, it just seems way too hostile to me. This whole separation of church and state thing is good but this is .... like hand cuffing students to their desks to make sure they don't break any rules.

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: grandmakdw

There is no proposed ban on anything by anyone. its the girl, Fox "news" and some people in this thread twisting the story into a Strawman.

I was being sarcastic when I said the word "goodbye" would be banned.

It was an example of how far the PC crowd has taken things lately.

Although...... if they knew .........

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: grandmakdw

That's great and all and like I've admitted in this thread, I did my own share of acting out. So I can relate. But this is totally just a stupid story and it isn't even the truth. She wasn't even punished for it. So there is no need for any outrage, the girl was just acting like a b# cause she could. Then went and whined to the media about it. My point is that this is a non-issue. Kids being kids.

You throw God into the mix ---- all brain logic gets thrown out

As I stated with my granddaughter, we made her drop the drama embellishment, and tell us exactly what happened.

It was a math class, she doesn't like math, she was being obnoxious and disrespectful because the teacher was trying to get her to pay attention.

The parents of this girl need to talk to her and get the real facts. But, they won't because God is involved.

a reply to: Annee

Exactly. There is no attack on religion going on here, just some kid doing what they do best. It's surprising too since I'm pretty sure that a few of them have teenage kids of their own and should recognize the signs. I don't even have kids and I can recognize the signs (of course I lived them)

a reply to: grandmakdw

You are assuming way too much. First youre assuming the story is even true. There are many times when people lie about a story to get on the news or try to get money from suing. Second is the assumption the teacher was angry. The teacher very well easily could have been joking and saying it in a funny way. At worst the teacher was just bothered by the girls shouting and only said the stuff to shut her up and had no intention of going against any beleif but really meant she shouldnt be shoutinng so loud in class. There is no indication of the girl being brave because that is fully based on your assumptions she was oppressed as the news story misleads she could simply be an attention seeker or trouble maker. There are many ways you can interpret things from what is written.

Also "true american" is a No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Damn you guys literally pick this thing apart like haystack being took apart hay by hay..... Good stuff....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

Exactly. There is no attack on religion going on here, just some kid doing what they do best. It's surprising too since I'm pretty sure that a few of them have teenage kids of their own and should recognize the signs. I don't even have kids and I can recognize the signs (of course I lived them)

Oh, and I have a major pet peeve of adults using children to push their agenda.

High school is a good beginning to learn there is diversity in the world. Not everyone is Christian. Use the opportunity to learn the differences in your teachers. That's the real world. That's what will help you most in getting out there making your own decisions.

Are there bad teachers? Yes. But, that's not what I'm seeing in this case. Yet.

originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: grandmakdw

You are assuming way too much. First youre assuming the story is even true. There are many times when people lie about a story to get on the news or try to get money from suing. Second is the assumption the teacher was angry. The teacher very well easily could have been joking and saying it in a funny way. At worst the teacher was just bothered by the girls shouting and only said the stuff to shut her up and had no intention of going against any beleif but really meant she shouldnt be shoutinng so loud in class. There is no indication of the girl being brave because that is fully based on your assumptions she was oppressed as the news story misleads she could simply be an attention seeker or trouble maker. There are many ways you can interpret things from what is written.

Also "true american" is a No True Scotsman Fallacy.

I believe the story said that the teacher posted a list of "forbidden words"
in her classroom.
No one has come forward, the school, the district, the state to deny she listed forbidden words
and among them was the phrase "bless you"

The child was brave in my opinion, maybe not in your opinion, but that's ok.
I believe in the US we are supposed to honor each others opinions, even if we don't agree with them.
But the teacher went further than an opinion when she made the silly little phrase "bless you" a forbidden word, and posted it as such in the front of her classroom.

We could argue all night over this, but no need,
You won't change your mind, and you have the right to your opinion and ideas
and I should be respectful of that
and you won't change my mind, and I think that is ok.
This isn't exactly a life or death issue, it's really a piece of fluff news
that demonstrates how ridiculous the PC crowd had taken things in the US.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Yeah, sounds like her pastor is using her to further the new "religious rights" movement. Seems many religious people want "special rights" because they're religious. Businesses with religious owners don't have to obey discrimination laws - and kids who are religious think they should be permitted to say things in school that other kids are not allowed to do.

What if a Satan Worshiper kid wanted to shout across the room, "All Hail Satan"! whenever another kid sneezed?

Schools don't have the same free speech rights that the general public has. If she was disrupting the classroom, a limit is understandable.

Would you all equally support the teacher's right to free speech in the classroom? Could she talk about politics? A non-Christian religion?

LOL. Seriously? You really cannot believe that. A tradition so ingrained in western culture that is an automatic reflex, across a multitude of cultures, and so automatic that all but the most fanatical asshole athiests use it, and this is what you come up with?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Annee

Exactly. There is no attack on religion going on here, just some kid doing what they do best. It's surprising too since I'm pretty sure that a few of them have teenage kids of their own and should recognize the signs. I don't even have kids and I can recognize the signs (of course I lived them)

Oh, and I have a major pet peeve of adults using children to push their agenda.

High school is a good beginning to learn there is diversity in the world. Not everyone is Christian. Use the opportunity to learn the differences in your teachers. That's the real world. That's what will help you most in getting out there making your own decisions.

Are there bad teachers? Yes. But, that's not what I'm seeing in this case. Yet.

And I have a pet peeve when people start making words forbidden just because the origin of the word is something someone finds offensive, when the actual word is totally non-offensive.

The teacher was not bad, just clearly overstepped her bounds and forced her non-religion, or worse yet, her anti-religious bigotry, on the child, in my opinion, by saying the phrase bless you is "god talk" and posting it on her wall as a "forbidden" word in her classroom.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Yeah, sounds like her pastor is using her to further the new "religious rights" movement. Seems many religious people want "special rights" because they're religious. Businesses with religious owners don't have to obey discrimination laws - and kids who are religious think they should be permitted to say things in school that other kids are not allowed to do.

What if a Satan Worshiper kid wanted to shout across the room, "All Hail Satan"! whenever another kid sneezed?

Schools don't have the same free speech rights that the general public has. If she was disrupting the classroom, a limit is understandable.

Would you all equally support the teacher's right to free speech in the classroom? Could she talk about politics? A non-Christian religion?

LOL. Seriously? You really cannot believe that. A tradition so ingrained in western culture that is an automatic reflex, across a multitude of cultures, and so automatic that all but the most fanatical asshole athiests use it, and this is what you come up with?

B. Heretic :I've seen enough of his/her posts to know that he/she just said this stuff to get someone riled up. At least that is the pattern I have noticed. Sorry you fell for it, I fell for it a lot , until I saw this pattern throughout many threads.
I suppose B H will say the same of me, but I really mean the stuff I say and it's not outlandish, at least I don't think so.

I don't think her pastor was "using" her at all. Seems to me the advice to "do the right thing", is always good advice to anyone. It's also quite common advice that can be generalized across a wide range of responses the child could have had.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

The teacher was not bad, just clearly overstepped her bounds and forced her non-religion, or worse yet, her anti-religious bigotry, on the child, in my opinion, by saying the phrase bless you is "god talk" and posting it on her wall as a "forbidden" word in her classroom.

Public schools are secular.

This girl is claiming she is getting death threats on her phone.

How'd they get her phone number?

a reply to: Annee

Children are not agents of the school system.

From the Pastor

He spoke at length about how his wife, Rev. Becky Winegardner was approached by Kendra after the incident in search of solutions to the firestorm it was quickly generating. According to Winegardner, this incident took place in a typing class wherein the teacher speaks commands and tries to get the students to get used to the keyboard. “This may be more of a case of a teacher who required absolute silence and also had difficulty with words and phrases being used as well,” he said. “I know the media is trying hard to make this all about religion, but part of it is about how different teachers teach.”

www.csmonitor.com...

With many problems in our country to address, things like this are just nonsense and a waste of time that could be used for solutions to real problems. That's all I will say.