Darren Wilson Suffered Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket during attack

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Or maybe he's a crack shot that wasn't trying to kill him?

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Sorry....just saw the last part of your post. If one shot is implied that way then they all are. I don't recall any witness on either side saying he killed him execution style. And the autopsy completely rules out the initial witness reports of Brown being shot in the back.

No it doesn't. There are actually two wounds that could have been sustained from shots fired from behind Brown. The entrance wound in the forearm and the graze wound on the inside of the bicep. The body is depicted as it would be laid out on the table, supine with palms up. This is not a position one would expect the arm to be in ANY scenario that has been put forth.

What you're describing as "classic muzzle rise pattern" doesn't really bear out unless Michael Brown was an inflexible two-dimensional cutout.

Jesus Christmas this is getting old...ok so you suggest he was running with his arms at his sides and palms dowe and forward? Ok....let me paint the picture here. When you run you bend your arms. Brown is rather large so his arms would be further to the side and the inside of his arm would face more forward from his back fat/lats pushing it that way. As he runs, more of his inside arm is exposed to the rounds hitting him...forearm goes up...bam right in the spot the coroner places it....bam on the inside of his bicep....this is not hard to follow people....

Or are you suggesting he had his arms up in the air surrendering and the cop started at the top of his arm in the air and worked his way down to his eye and head?

The shots line up with an attempt at center mass on a moving target....it is not that complicated.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: rickymouse
Didn't they say that the door bounced back in his face when he opened the door. That could have done that to him. I could believe that the kid did shove the door back at him as he tried to get out of the car. That is a reason to draw a gun but not to shoot...six times.

Don't police cars have cameras on them that record some things if turned on, the ones here do for recording traffic stops. It has audio.

To be fair, a cop (or anyone) should never draw their weapon unless they intend to use it. If something justifies pulling the gun in the first place it also justifies using it and when you use a gun you shoot center mass and don't stop until the person is down. That's just best practices. Now whether the officer should have drawn his gun in the first place is a completely different question.

The problem is that the evidence we are seeing is all over the place, with deep divisions between how people interpret the evidence. I think that this cop should go to trial, too many witnesses say he chased him down. Now I understand that the witnesses can be bias, but it needs to go to court. This is the action of one cop, not the police department. This is also the action of one black person, not the black community.

If this was a white man that was shot, there wouldn't be as much fuss. I am sure this black kid did something to initially set the cop off also. A cop is supposed to be a professional and under self control though. If the kid did come at him, he was justified, but for some reason, I think that the witnesses that say he turned and put his hands up are telling the truth. Maybe in his excitement and running at this kid, the cop felt the kid turned around and was running at him even though he was stopped and surrendering. Perception is a strange thing.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
[Ok...it's getting old arguing with you. The coroner specifically said giving up or charging.

About one shot. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Emphasis added, maybe it will help this time:

“This one here looks like his head was bent downward,” he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown’s head. “It can be because he’s giving up, or because he’s charging forward at the officer.”

Since you don't seem to believe my words regarding the SUV position in relation to Brown's body, how about some pictures instead. Google Earth has some older streetview pictures, from 2012, and the apartments have been remodeled since.
Position of Brown's body:


The two trees got removed in front of apartment:

Wider view of scene:


Hat near the curve, presumably Wilson's SUV beside it:


Other direction from pine tree/bush reference point:


It is as I said:

a reply to: theantediluvian

From the actual St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

Byers has been on FMLA leave since March. She is not involved in the Ferguson coverage while she is on leave. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch did not report the information included in Byers' tweet, either in print or online on STLtoday.com.

Link

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Sorry....just saw the last part of your post. If one shot is implied that way then they all are. I don't recall any witness on either side saying he killed him execution style. And the autopsy completely rules out the initial witness reports of Brown being shot in the back.

No it doesn't. There are actually two wounds that could have been sustained from shots fired from behind Brown. The entrance wound in the forearm and the graze wound on the inside of the bicep. The body is depicted as it would be laid out on the table, supine with palms up. This is not a position one would expect the arm to be in ANY scenario that has been put forth.

What you're describing as "classic muzzle rise pattern" doesn't really bear out unless Michael Brown was an inflexible two-dimensional cutout.

Jesus Christmas this is getting old...ok so you suggest he was running with his arms at his sides and palms dowe and forward? Ok....let me paint the picture here. When you run you bend your arms. Brown is rather large so his arms would be further to the side and the inside of his arm would face more forward from his back fat/lats pushing it that way. As he runs, more of his inside arm is exposed to the rounds hitting him...forearm goes up...bam right in the spot the coroner places it....bam on the inside of his bicep....this is not hard to follow people....

No, that's not at all what I was saying. I'd actually expect that while running his arms would be out to the side of his body, elbows bent and hands likely clenched in fists. If he was really pumping his arms while running, even his hand would have been briefly visible from behind. That's just common sense. No need to feign exasperation when people don't agree with you. If you're finding the conversation tiresome, perhaps there are some small impressionable children you'd rather indoctrinate instead?

I agree that it's just as likely that the wounds came from shots fired from the front. I'm not the one making misstatements about the pathologists' conclusions and dismissing alternative, plausible hypotheses out of hand.

a reply to: Greven

So either you are incorrect or Wilson shot Brown from behind multiple times then walked around in front of him, put a bullet through his eye and while he was bowing in submission another through the top of his head. Because that is the ONLY way he could have received those shots in your scenario....unless of course you are wrong about the pace mentioned of the SUV from the pic you reference.

Like I've said....i think you are incorrect. I am limited in my ability to search as I am only on a phone but again....i will stake my reputation on you being incorrect and me being correct.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
What is 'my scenario' exactly?

I questioned why he it seems from photo compilation that he is facing away from the police vehicle if he was shot from the front. Both sides state that he turned around and was shot to death by Wilson from the front, after turning. I am not questioning that.

It has been put forth elsewhere that he could have spun as he fell. That seems likely, given that I agree that his fatal wounds came from when his body was turned towards the officer.

Would this have happened from the momentum of a 300+lb man who was charging at an officer and only stopped because a fatal head wound or two, though?

The alternative is that Brown's hat was not actually near Wilson's vehicle, and instead Wilson's vehicle was to the west. The question would then become - how did Brown's hat get so far away from his body, and be behind him? Any way I look at this, it's strange.

edit:
Here are the facts you can absolutely take away from my compilation in images and words:
Brown's body was face down on the ground, pointed towards the west/northwest (head relative to body).
His hat was at least 35 feet behind him, towards the east/southeast.
The latitude and longitude where the shooting took place are at roughly 38.738,-70.273 degrees.

My presumption is that Wilson's SUV is next to Brown's hat. This is not necessarily true. If it can be identified where his SUV was for certain, that would be a good thing.

a reply to: butcherguy

I would like to know where the pics of his injuries went afetr the first day BEFORE it hit the mainstream news.

I would have saved it somehow but had no clue on day one that it would turn into the firestorm it has.

Sunday morning [after the QT fire, one of the local stations had the pics online of the injuries to the cop. Gone by PM however. ]
Somebody locally media wise has those pics and ALSO the comment sections where its was being HIGHLY debated as to the person who had robbed the market was the same as the one shot.

Someone knew he had robbed the store and was headed home, but got into with others about the shooting. The person knew Darian and Michael and knew where they were headed. This was before it hit MSM but had just got on the local media.

And WHERE are the pics I seen?? His jaw was broke and eye COMPLETELY swollen shut. There is no way he could've shot straight with the injuries in the pics I seen.

Im not siding with the cop or Michael, but I would LOVE to know WHERE the pcs and comment conversations went to because I can't find them and did not save at the time. I seen the very first headline on Drudge if it helps, which sent me to a LOCAL station.

ETA... not arguing with anyone, but the local coverage and conversations painted a very differnt pic from what was put on the national MSM. I cannot find any of it.

a reply to: palmalBlue2
I have yet to see a photo of the injuries. You saw them but can't find them anywhere now. I wonder if they were scrubbed? If so, that would indicate a conspiracy is afoot.

a reply to: matafuchs

Then why did he die so far away?
Also why was the cop so stupid as to pull up right next to the guy? He was in a car and armed.

I think this info would have been touted HUUUUGEEE the very first day before they allowed riots.

a reply to: Bone75

Cops never shoot to injure.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: matafuchs

Then why did he die so far away?
Also why was the cop so stupid as to pull up right next to the guy? He was in a car and armed.

I think this info would have been touted HUUUUGEEE the very first day before they allowed riots.

Why wouldn't he pull up right next to him?

I think you're failing to understand that this went from routine 'get out of the street' to violent very quickly. Do you think the appropriate response to jaywalking is parking 30 feet away with your gun drawn and telling someone to move o driving up and saying 'get out of the street'?

From what I've gathered so far (which I don't put a ton of stock in at the moment) the reason he died 'so far' (30 feet is NOT far) from the truck was that he ran away, turned around and charged the officer. Of course that may not be true, but so far it sure doesn't look like it's been ruled out. It would take under 2 seconds to cover 30 feet. We also don't really know where the officer was standing. He was most likely closer than the car to Mr. Brown.

It would help if we had the missing reports. I'm talking about the ones mentioned in that police report about the robbery, here:

And I’m talking about Ferguson Police Report #2014-12391 and St. Louis County Police Report #2014-43984. Thanks to the after-the-fact police report on the convenience store shoplifting we know key information of the killing of Brown is “detailed” in those two documents.

Alas, they are unavailable to the best of my knowledge.

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
from the initial witness accounts:

But eye witnesses, including Johnson, tell a different version of events. According to Johnson, after Officer Wilson told the two men to get on the sidewalk, he slammed his brakes, put his car into reverse, and attempted to open the door of his police car. The door hit Brown and then bounced shut again. In an interview with MSNBC last week, Johnson described how Wilson reached out and grabbed Brown by the neck. The altercation became like a “tug-of-war,” with Wilson trying to pull Brown inside the car and Brown pulling away.

Wilson fired off a shot which Johnson said hit Brown. The two young men began running away. After another shot or more was fired, Johnson said his friend turned around with his hands raised in the air and said, “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!” The officer, then facing Brown, fired several more shots and Brown fell to the ground.

A second eyewitness, Piaget Crenshaw, who saw the events from her apartment and videotaped the aftermath, told CNN that she saw Brown and the officer struggle and that it looked like the officer was trying to pull Brown into the car. When that didn’t work, she said the officer chased after Brown and shot multiple times, though none of those shots appeared to hit Brown. In the end, Crenshaw said, Brown “turned around and then was shot multiple times.”

Going back the witness statements, Wilson rolled up on two black teens walking in the center of the road. Wilson had no idea of anything pertaining to the QT shoplifting. He told the teens to get out of the road and up on to the sidewalk. As he rolled away Brown said something to him. Wilson slammed on the brakes and reversed, and shouted "What'd you say?" then slammed the door in opening it into Brown. He then tried to pull Brown in and Brown pushed back. At this point I would say that Wilson sustained the injury from the door. He also started shooting Brown "from a distance" as Brown had retreated.

Overzealous cop who decided to execute Brown for whatever flippant remark he gave him for telling them to get out of the street.

Johnson said that he and Brown had been walking in the middle of the street when a police officer approached and told them to use the sidewalk. They complied, and the officer began to drive away, but then threw his car into reverse and came back alongside the teens, nearly hitting them. Johnson heard Wilson say something like "What'd you say?", before trying to open his car door, slamming it into Brown. Then the officer reached out and grabbed Brown by the neck with his left hand. The two men struggled briefly, and then Wilson, still in his car, shot Brown once.

There was never any "bullrushing" by Brown. The simple fact is this cop lost control.

That was pretty pathetic - your post that is. The cop tried to pull Brown, a 300 pound man, into his car on top of himself?

Why did I even respond to this post?

a reply to: Bilk22
It makes about as much sense as saying Brown rushed back at Wilson, who is holding a gun and fired a shot already, after he ran away from him when the gun went off.

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Bilk22
It makes about as much sense as saying Brown rushed back at Wilson, who is holding a gun and fired a shot already, after he ran away from him when the gun went off.

It makes less sense than the media trying to paint this guy as an innocent, college bound kid. That's how much sense it makes.

a reply to: Domo1
I thought I remembered it being said, the officer was in pursuit, after calling in for back up, after Brown assaulted him, started to run after Brown, then Brown was said to have turned around, & charged after the officer. It was said today, when the officer shot the final shot, Brown fell within 2-3 feet from the officer. This story was backed up by a few witnesses now. Probably scared to 'snitch'....I sure hope they can find those few honest witnesses that did match what the officer said....as I stated before, I don't normally stick up for the cops, but IMO, the cop was assaulted 1st, I feel it was justified. I choose NOT to ignore how Browns true character was revealed by the strong arm robbery, or the witness at the scene that backed up the officers story. Total disrespect by Brown in both situations......I see everyday, how some parents are no longer teaching their children to have respect. My kids age range from 24 down to 9.......I've seen these kids going downhill over the years.....I already know some will disagree, but I'm allowed my opinion & I'm not getting into an argument with anyone here.

a reply to: matafuchs

The tiny youth didn't do anything. The bad cop was a racist. Oh, wait a minute. Black people have been played again! Ha ha!! Just like Zimmerman and Duke Lacrosse.

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
from the initial witness accounts:

But eye witnesses, including Johnson, tell a different version of events. According to Johnson, after Officer Wilson told the two men to get on the sidewalk, he slammed his brakes, put his car into reverse, and attempted to open the door of his police car. The door hit Brown and then bounced shut again. In an interview with MSNBC last week, Johnson described how Wilson reached out and grabbed Brown by the neck. The altercation became like a “tug-of-war,” with Wilson trying to pull Brown inside the car and Brown pulling away.

Wilson fired off a shot which Johnson said hit Brown. The two young men began running away. After another shot or more was fired, Johnson said his friend turned around with his hands raised in the air and said, “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!” The officer, then facing Brown, fired several more shots and Brown fell to the ground.

A second eyewitness, Piaget Crenshaw, who saw the events from her apartment and videotaped the aftermath, told CNN that she saw Brown and the officer struggle and that it looked like the officer was trying to pull Brown into the car. When that didn’t work, she said the officer chased after Brown and shot multiple times, though none of those shots appeared to hit Brown. In the end, Crenshaw said, Brown “turned around and then was shot multiple times.”

Going back the witness statements, Wilson rolled up on two black teens walking in the center of the road. Wilson had no idea of anything pertaining to the QT shoplifting. He told the teens to get out of the road and up on to the sidewalk. As he rolled away Brown said something to him. Wilson slammed on the brakes and reversed, and shouted "What'd you say?" then slammed the door in opening it into Brown. He then tried to pull Brown in and Brown pushed back. At this point I would say that Wilson sustained the injury from the door. He also started shooting Brown "from a distance" as Brown had retreated.

Overzealous cop who decided to execute Brown for whatever flippant remark he gave him for telling them to get out of the street.

Johnson said that he and Brown had been walking in the middle of the street when a police officer approached and told them to use the sidewalk. They complied, and the officer began to drive away, but then threw his car into reverse and came back alongside the teens, nearly hitting them. Johnson heard Wilson say something like "What'd you say?", before trying to open his car door, slamming it into Brown. Then the officer reached out and grabbed Brown by the neck with his left hand. The two men struggled briefly, and then Wilson, still in his car, shot Brown once.

There was never any "bullrushing" by Brown. The simple fact is this cop lost control.

That was pretty pathetic - your post that is. The cop tried to pull Brown, a 300 pound man, into his car on top of himself?

Why did I even respond to this post?

that's SOP, isn't it?