Scientific Evidence of a Global Flood

originally posted by: tsingtao

coz that is all BS. that's why.

no one believes that.

God was created by men. Can you demonstrate that he exists outside of your psychology and thought processes?

originally posted by: tsingtao
those goat herders wrote the bible.

And? Is that supposed to mean anything? Goat herders aren't exactly known for their intelligence. What makes these goat herders so special?

have geologists been "everywhere" yet?

They've certainly been to more places than your goat herders have.

so no moon and you would be a jellyfish?

Uh... not quite. More like no moon and all the life on the planet would look and behave NOTHING like we know or has ever existed on this planet. So it's more like, "no moon and you would be a trillibob." Whatever that is.

or moon and humans! yay!

Well the moon was one of the factors that led to life evolving in the direction that enabled humans to evolve, but it wasn't the only one.

yeah moon=human!

have moon, will travel!

God made the flood. He can do anything He wants. KT boundary was incoming, not special enough to make it into the bible.

So the KT boundary which is a genetic marker of a past extinction level event isn't good enough to make the bible (probably because the humans who wrote the bible didn't know about it), but the flood, another world wide extinction level event does get into the bible but there are no genetic markers on the planet for it. Despite the fact that we have evidence of local floods from times further in the past than the alleged flood's occurrence in the geologic record. And that is all perfectly sound to you? To me that says the flood never happened.

it's not a cop out.

you have less evidence than i do.

Actually I have more evidence than you do. Your evidence is a small section in one book of the bible. My evidence is lies in geology, mathematics, engineering, genetics, physics, and many more scientific disciplines that all present evidence that presents a conclusion that makes the global flood a physical impossibility.

ya got some chump busting rocks in the hot sun saying, no flood here but there was a flood at one time.

can't be that flood! no way.

No it can't because the flood that was found clearly has boundaries. They can map where that flood ended and can show that that particular flood didn't cover the earth.

a reply to: tsingtao

Probably before the end of my lifetime. But I'm agnostic so I'm open to new evidence as it is discovered and presented. Though keep in mind, Darwin was on the right track. He may not have gotten the full picture, but even today we don't have the full picture. We will discard things and update our views as new evidence comes to light. But make NO mistake, the core concept that of evolution (that life changes into increasing complexity over many generations) is true. It's the finer details that are in flux.

a reply to: TzarChasm

so what you are saying is...we should interpret past errors of science as reason to assume that our current scientific standing is not only erroneous as well, but also inferior to your god-driven methodology and its subsequent conclusions. furthermore, we should also assume, as a result of these past errors in science, that science has no hope of comparing to your methodologies and we should just give up in favor of the conclusions you have reached. is that about right?

Actually you have said it for me. Theology can never be wrong. If you can prove theology is wrong then you have proved theology and if you have proved theology then it is no longer theology. It then becomes fact.

By your own admission your science was wrong and if it was wrong then it was theology. This proves that some of your science is theology and not as true as you should want us to believe.

a reply to: Seede

Theology is the study of religions and religious truths. It is no more about proving any given religion is true or that any given god exists, than anthropology is about proving humans exist

I find theology fascinating. And was top of my class in Religious Studies many, many, many moons ago. I am also an atheist.

a reply to: peter vlar

First, I think you would be surprised at the number of people posting in this thread with legitimate backgrounds and degrees, or are working towards their degree, in subjects very much pertinent to the topic of this thread. Second, when you care so little about the topic that you don't even understand the most basic premises of moder evolutionary synthesis or how dating is actually done then you are not really in a position to take such condescending tones towards people who believe that early Hebrew and later on Greek and Latin Christian texts are little more than Bronze Age fables.

Your ego shows quite plainly. I have touched an exposed nerve to have you even bother to reply to a stupid inferior subhuman. I understand your self grandeur and disrespect for the less fortunate of the human race. I am quite sure that when you meet the real world that you will shed some of that self love that you proudly show to the the little ones of ATS.

You have no idea what I know or what I understand. I also realize that one day you will realize your stupid self love and see that what you have built in your mind is nothing. Have a go and good life because you will certainly need one.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: peter vlar

First, I think you would be surprised at the number of people posting in this thread with legitimate backgrounds and degrees, or are working towards their degree, in subjects very much pertinent to the topic of this thread. Second, when you care so little about the topic that you don't even understand the most basic premises of moder evolutionary synthesis or how dating is actually done then you are not really in a position to take such condescending tones towards people who believe that early Hebrew and later on Greek and Latin Christian texts are little more than Bronze Age fables.

Your ego shows quite plainly. I have touched an exposed nerve to have you even bother to reply to a stupid inferior subhuman. I understand your self grandeur and disrespect for the less fortunate of the human race. I am quite sure that when you meet the real world that you will shed some of that self love that you proudly show to the the little ones of ATS.

You have no idea what I know or what I understand. I also realize that one day you will realize your stupid self love and see that what you have built in your mind is nothing. Have a go and good life because you will certainly need one.

peter is not the topic, so lets get back to discussing the scientific evidence of a global flood (or lack thereof) before someone with a greater authority than yours is forced to step in.

a reply to: AndyMayhew

Theology is the study of religions and religious truths. It is no more about proving any given religion is true or that any given god exists, than anthropology is about proving humans exist I find theology fascinating. And was top of my class in Religious Studies many, many, many moons ago. I am also an atheist.

Well Andy, I realize what you mean in reference to becoming an atheist. I went through atheism many years ago and it was a dark period of death and destruction that led me there. I am not of any denomination but if I were it would be prior to Roman Christianity. I guess all people have their own preferences but i cannot believe science has the answer to any afterlife. I Also realize that religion has not been honest with its subjects and is the reason for much disbelief. Wish you the best and may my God bless you.

a reply to: Seede

I guess all people have their own preferences but i cannot believe science has the answer to any afterlife.

science has not proven that theres any afterlife to have an answer to, so...yeah, dont know what to tell you about that.

a reply to: peter vlar

I don't men to be rude but could you explain how you were in a M.A.S.H. Unit in WW2 when they never existed until after we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki and weren't deployed overseas prior to the Korean conflict? Not only am I a longtime student of Anthropology but I'm also a former 11B so I'm pretty familiar with many Aspects of military history.

Yes M.A.S.H. was somewhere in 45 or 46 I believe. Not sure. Would have to look into that. Actually I was not in a M.A.S.H. or even a Field Hospital. I was in a British mobile vehicle where only one surgeon was available. There were several doctors but only one surgeon. My left shoulder and neck were operated on and spent about ten days quartered in a quonset hut facility and then released back to my RAF squadron commander in South Ruislip England. I recovered in my Squadron Commanders care with light duty for about three months. After state side I also served a tour of duty in 1947 under Gen. Kenny as the new USAF was born. I ended my service in the pentagon and quartered in Washington D.C. - I finished my entire service in 1951. I only mentioned this in a passing remark and not as anything other than that. I have always referenced Field or Mobile unites as M.A.S.H. from my latter service. Your inferences were noted.

a reply to: Seede

Mathew 5:39 But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Striking on the right cheek refers to a back-handed slap to the face. In Jesus' time, and still today in the Middle East, such a gesture is one of the highest forms of contempt.the gesture is a grave insult, not a physical attack.

Matthew 5:43-45 (NIV) - “You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

You don't need to believe in divinity to be a good person or appreciate the message attributed to Christ. Unfortunately more often than not, those who claim piety are the biggest offenders of their saviors wisdom and work. I have no contempt for you as you seem to think, only pity. I was merely attempting to share the benefits of many years of research. You would prefer to resort to ad hominem attacks thus I will from this point on not dignify your slanderous commentary with response. Best of luck to you and yours.

Now can we actually discuss the topic of the thread before a moderator feels the need to intervene?

a reply to: Seede

Fair enough. The first MASH units were organized in August of 45 and their first deployments were during the Korean conflict. They were a resounding success in that those soldiers who made it to a MASH still alive had a 97% survival rate.

a reply to: Seede

Actually you have said it for me. Theology can never be wrong. If you can prove theology is wrong then you have proved theology and if you have proved theology then it is no longer theology. It then becomes fact.

...this is the definition of trolling, right here. what you are doing. what i just read, twice, directly above. that is trolling.

By your own admission your science was wrong and if it was wrong then it was theology. This proves that some of your science is theology and not as true as you should want us to believe.

one, i dont think you understand the definition of theology. two, i said that not only has science been wrong in the past, it has made concerted efforts to correct itself - with a very substantial amount of success. three, you dont seem to grasp the definition of science either. i sense that you are being deliberately difficult, perhap with some subconscious understanding that you cant win this discussion. if it can be called a discussion.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: wmd_2008

Text After all why can't this so called super being get the same message to all corners of the pale blue dot we live on SIMPLE because the people who made him up lived in a small part of the world.

Your subject was the bible and not other religions.

The biblical message as well as the bible has reached all corners of the world even though it is not accepted all over the world. You are correct in that the original Christians were localized at one time but the Christian God was long before Christianity came upon the scene. The same God was recorded to have been from the beginning of our civilization and not simply biblical.

As far as getting the same message out to the pale blue dot, It has already been done many years ago but not all people on the same blue dot will believe that message.

Here is a link to just some of the god(s) MAN CREATED

Click the link above and let me explain, Those god(s) in the link were created by MAN some even before the events in the bible.

They ALL have creation stories for MAN and the Earth, they all believed those stories as well, they CAN'T all be right but they can all be wrong.

The point to what I was saying if god existed WHY wasn't the same message given at the same time ALL OVER the world an EASY task for any god don't you think.

Each area of the world has it's own god(s) and beliefs MANY a lot older than the biblical BS.

MAN created god(s) at the time to explain things he could not understand that's why some people had sun,moon,rain or thunder gods etc.

THIS simple fact shows ALL god(s) are stories deal with it!

a reply to: TzarChasm

one, i dont think you understand the definition of theology. two, i said that not only has science been wrong in the past, it has made concerted efforts to correct itself - with a very substantial amount of success. three, you dont seem to grasp the definition of science either. i sense that you are being deliberately difficult, perhap with some subconscious understanding that you cant win this discussion. if it can be called a discussion.

I believe i do understand what theology is and have stated so in my past posts. What i do not understand is that some people are so defensive that they cannot admit a fault when they actually practice that fault. I don't believe a person needs to be any scientist to see that when something is postulated as being fact and later proven not to be fact that it is simply and plainly not fact. That to me is simple basic truth. Instead of spinning the error simply admit that science is not all correct. You don't make excuses if a science is wrong and i see this in medical science everyday on recalls, deaths and mutations of drug usage. Law suits by the score and admitted wrong science is on the TV every day and I don't have to be a scientist to understand that people make billions on the backs of the ones who trust them and bury their bad science.

Professor Peter Wadham of Cambridge UK is the more recent example of exactly what I have said. Instead of a long drawn out essay of Professo0r Wadham and his false science simply look at facts of what comes out of Cambridge.

www.dailymail.co.uk... es-MORE-2-years-ago-despite-Al-Gore-s-prediction-ICE-FREE-now.html

globalclimatefacts.wordpress.com...

I am not accusing all science as being false. That is ridiculous and a false assumption on your part. Science has its place in life but it isn't the only expertise in survival. As far as winning is concerned i have never looked at any profession as a game unless your talking casinos. There is no such thing as winning. We all perish the same.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: TzarChasm

one, i dont think you understand the definition of theology. two, i said that not only has science been wrong in the past, it has made concerted efforts to correct itself - with a very substantial amount of success. three, you dont seem to grasp the definition of science either. i sense that you are being deliberately difficult, perhap with some subconscious understanding that you cant win this discussion. if it can be called a discussion.

What i do not understand is that some people are so defensive that they cannot admit a fault when they actually practice that fault. I don't believe a person needs to be any scientist to see that when something is postulated as being fact and later proven not to be fact that it is simply and plainly not fact. That to me is simple basic truth.

I don't believe you practice this at all if you believe the bible is in any way true.

a reply to: wmd_2008

THIS simple fact shows ALL god(s) are stories deal with it!

Yes you could be right and then you might be wrong. You are correct in that there are many gods in the world and that people may have invented them but out of all of the uncountable gods past and present could just one be not invented?
You see then you have to move from fact to theology. How could you prove that not one is true. That is impossible because the moment you prove anything then it is not theology. What you really mean is that you believe that no god actually exists. That is theology isn't it? Doesn't that make you as guilty as all of those who have their god?

As far as the Christian bibles are concerned they do differ one from the other and just as you have said it's all matter of their beliefs. As far as calling it all BS is your own belief. I would not go that far in my theological understanding.

Your question - "WHY wasn't the same message given at the same time ALL OVER the world an EASY task for any god don't you think." -

The Christian answer is that the Creator gave His Adamic creation the gift of knowledge to understand right from wrong. This is parroted as free will. The Creator is believed to have presented Himself to each and every one of the seventy nations that existed at the time of Moses. The only nation to accept His rules and regulations was the Hebrew nation of twelve tribes. Even at this there were many within that nation of twelve tribe that did not accept that this God of Moses was really a God. To answer your question, people simply could not believe in a god that would take all the fun and games out of life. Eventually this snowballed into 613 commands of "don't do."

I do not subscribe to any organization or denomination of religion myself but i do theorize an intelligent designer of the universe. What that is i do not understand. I also freely admit that religious affiliations are not necessarily a measure of anyone's intelligence.

I do believe there is evidence of a global flood but not necessarily as accepted and taught by what we call science today. I also believe that most all science dating is flawed but will not argue it in this forum. I guess that ends my rant.

I hope this is not trolling but simply answering a question.

originally posted by: Seede

I do believe there is evidence of a global flood but not necessarily as accepted and taught by what we call science today. I also believe that most all science dating is flawed but will not argue it in this forum. I guess that ends my rant.

I hope this is not trolling but simply answering a question.

Unless you can provide evidence to counter that point, there is no evidence a global flood ever happened. It's not some conspiracy by the scientific community to hide it from the text books. In fact, all the evidence -much of which has already been stated in this thread- supports localized floods but never a global flood.

Also, whether you accept it or not, radiometric dating has shown to be rather accurate and until such time that it is proven otherwise, it is considered more than acceptable.

The thread has to do with origins which, as most scientists know, came from intelligent design. Do your homework before you belittle "religious" people. The greatest scientific minds have said when taken to logical conclusions, there must have been a creator. Please go catch up with everyone else if your going to comment on threads concerning origins.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Seede

The Christian answer is that the Creator gave His Adamic creation the gift of knowledge to understand right from wrong. This is parroted as free will. The Creator is believed to have presented Himself to each and every one of the seventy nations that existed at the time of Moses. The only nation to accept His rules and regulations was the Hebrew nation of twelve tribes. Even at this there were many within that nation of twelve tribe that did not accept that this God of Moses was really a God. To answer your question, people simply could not believe in a god that would take all the fun and games out of life. Eventually this snowballed into 613 commands of "don't do."

Again this is in tiny area of the globe that is the real problem with ALL religion they are confined to very small areas of the globe they are all different and are all about control.

There were people ALL over the globe at that time in areas that people from the middle east would have NO idea about and vice versa.

Just a bunch of stories to provide control and are still being used today!