Scientific Evidence of a Global Flood

In so many threads pertaining to the Biblical Flood, I see people conceding that there is no scientific evidence to support it. So, I took it upon my little biased, Jesus-lovin' self to find some unbiased information. This is harder than it seems. Not because the facts don't exist, but because they are produced most often by the faith community.

It's important to meet people where they are. A lot of times, people are not in a place to read confirmation from jesus.com to support the science behind Biblical events. They may never be there, and that's okay. However, to say there is no evidence is a fallacy. The evidence I'm about to present took about 10 minutes to find in a Google search, so it doesn't have the depth I would like, but I have work and life...hence the fact that I've been here for 5 years (3 more before that as a lurker) and have less than 200 posts as of this writing.

Alright, get to the point.

Robert Ballard is on the hunt. Man, I love him...I've been a Titanic buff since I was 14.

abcnews.go.com...

Four hundred feet below the surface, they unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred.

discovermagazine.com...

Bretz found exotic granite boulders perched on basalt cliffs hundreds of feet above the highest recorded river level. In the scablands, a desolate region stripped of soil, he came across dry waterfalls and potholes hundreds of feet above the modern river. Gigantic gravel bars deposited within dry valleys implied deep, fast-flowing water. Streamlined hills rose like islands, extending more than 100 feet above the scoured-out channelways.

He realized the chaotic landscape had been carved by an enormous flood that chewed deep channels through hundreds of feet of solid basalt. The ancient flood deposited an enormous delta around Portland, Oregon, backing up flow into the Willamette Valley. The waters, he eventually realized, could have come from catastrophic drainage of Lake Missoula, an ancient, glacier-dammed lake in western Montana.

I thought both of these articles were interesting, especially the first one. I don't present them as definitive evidence, but they ARE evidence and shouldn't be ignored. You can't say there is NO evidence of a period or periods of cataclysmic flooding. Regardless of if it involved a guy in a big wood boat is beside the point. So often, the point is missed that you can't deny evidence because it may or may not support a Biblical event.

Hey, ATS, I hope you'll join in the conversation. Present your evidence...preferably unbiased.

Biased Site I Couldn't Ignore

Please note that I am not presenting this as a part of my commitment to unbiased information. I also am not presenting it as an entry for argument. This is for the other believers out there. Good site. Ton of evidence...even though it looks like it was created in 2002.

www.earthage.org...

Other ATS Threads of Interest

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Sumerian Kings List says that the Flood happened after Eridu's flourishing and that Kish held the first post-diluvial dynasty. Archaeology shows that there was no significant occupation of Eridu after the Uruk period, and Kish was not a major city until the Jemdet Nasr period. So the Sumerian tradition has the date fixed between 3000 and 2900BC.

I also saw a documentary series on the entire history of India, and they had found evidence of flood layers in certain cities that were said to have been destroyed.

But the fallacy comes in saying that archaeology supports the Bible; certainly some historical events happened, but that doesnt validate all of it.

a reply to: glitchinthematrix

Just to be clear, people do not state there was no flooding in the past. The contention is that there was never an all encompassing global flood - and the evidence backs this up.

Submerged shorelines around the world all date to different time periods, over a period of up to 10'000 years. And even within certain regions, there were various different events. For example, the Baltic Sea region (and therefore, by default, the basin that became the North Sea) had at least 3 separate Pulse Water events over at least 7'000 years, dated using submerged shorelines, sediment deposits, etc.

As to basalt cliffs, gravel bars, etc in Oregon, much of the state used to be ancient sea bed (millions and millions of years ago). As such, i would fully expect to see such things well above the modern shoreline.

Studies into the flow rate of the Black Sea event show that people would not have been inundated per say, they would have been able to leave the area quite easily, just be forced to abandon their settlements, etc.

a reply to: Flavian

I have generalized, and that's unfair. In fact, it's a pet peeve of mine. I apologize.

I have seen many posts refuting a massive flood in the past. I simply don't agree. I came across this post this morning which spurred this thread and my desire to explore unbiased evidence:

Ye lost me bud... The "Flood" never happened... Theres no proof of it anywhere, and if it did it was most definitely a local one... not a world wide one that is described in the bible...

I believe there is evidence of a massive flood of Biblical proportions. Other than that, I am laying my beliefs aside.

For the sake of transparency, the above quote came from this thread which I also wish to leave outside of this discussion because quite frankly, no evidence is presented and it's crazy.

Floods happen all around the world, the only flood that would have seemed to be like a world wide cataclysm would have been the creation of the med. sea, when sea levels rose near the end of the last 'ice age' - we are technically still in one - it poured billions of litres of water into the dried out basins of the Mediterranean.
Geologists say that at the time, it would have been an amazing sight to see the waterfall, it lowered ocean levels world wide.

www.theguardian.com...



Also take a look at this wonderful video show casing a moment in archaeological time. You gotta watch the whole thing to understand where it's going.



The flood may have happened, but it surely wasn't caused of created by a god. The flooding from that massive waterfall (which took millions of years) would have caused mass floods elsewhere in the med. even destroying entire villages and cities and what not. Word of mouth most likely got around and tales were made from it. Including the story of Gilgamesh, a hero who traveled the world looking for immortality, and while on his journeys he met an old wise man who told him the story of a great flood, where the old man had to build an ark and save the animals.
This story was most likely taken from some ancient Sumerian fable and Gilgamesh was glorified later on to have been the man who saved the animals instead of the old man.

Your thread title is misleading. You didn't post any evidence of a global flood, just evidence of local floods. Albeit larger than normal floods, but there is certainly no evidence in your thread for a global flood. Also I find this amusing from your first source.

Four hundred feet below the surface, they unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred.

I sure hope all those religious people who always yell that c-14 dating isn't reliable when talking about evolution don't try to accept it in this case because it supports their narrative.

ETA: Wouldn't this thread have made more sense to be in the conspiracies in religion forum? I'm not sure what this topic has to do with origins or creationism.

a reply to: glitchinthematrix

Until your thread does exactly what it says on the tin it's entirely pointless joining in. Meh.

So who are these crazy people denying localised flooding lol?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh yay, a "your thread title is misleading" post.

This is me not responding.

About the carbon 14 dating...this discussion is not about that. Nor is it about the viability of dating...personally, I think we suck at trying to figure out prehistoric timelines.

The articles I posted support evidence of flooding from Oregon to Connecticut to the Black Sea region. That's pretty global if you ask me. I am limited by my time to research the topic and by the amount of exploration that's being done where.

There's just NO way to separate the discussion from whether not it supports the Bible or the opposite view. Gah!

Is there evidence of massive flooding worldwide?

Yes.

Did it all happen at the same time?

No one can know.

Was it the Biblical flood?

See previous answer.

Does God exist?

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THAT!

*drops mic*

originally posted by: glitchinthematrix
a reply to: Flavian
I believe there is evidence of a massive flood of Biblical proportions. Other than that, I am laying my beliefs aside.

You had your biblical conclusion before you even began looking for evidence.

If you can't be honest enough to admit that this thread is entirely driven by your beliefs, then there's no discussion to be had, unless of course you just want fellow believers to agree with you?

originally posted by: glitchinthematrix
Is there evidence of massive flooding worldwide?

Yes.

No. There is evidence that flooding occurred in the past. That's all. To extrapolate a global flood from the evidence provided is a reach.

Did it all happen at the same time?

No one can know.

Yes we can know. It's called geology and we can get an idea when floods occurred in the past through dating strata. Also, if a global flood would have occurred there would be markers for such an event in the geologic record similar to the K-T boundary that separates the dinosaur period from the mammalian period. These markers would be in every strata in the world (just like the K-T boundary). Not to mention there is COUNTLESS amounts of secondary evidence that implicitly shows that a global flood could not have occurred. Pando, an 80,000 year old tree structure, would be dead if a global flood had occurred.

Was it the Biblical flood?

See previous answer.

No, it wasn't a biblical flood.

Does God exist?

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THAT!

If you are speaking about the global flood, you are speaking about god. Natural sciences don't make room for a global flood since it is scientifically impossible, there isn't enough water on the earth to cover the planet.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

How dare you bring facts to the OP's attempt at a religious circle jerk!

Its easy to disprove a global flood. Just look at fresh water versus salt water. You would have only salt water if there was a global flood.

I think a large flood may have happened at one time or another, large enough some people could not see safe land so they felt it was the whole world. A literal world flood just is highly unlikely. People who believe there was a global flood will think any evidence for any old flood is evidence for a global flood even if the times do not match up between floods and this is a major mistake of interpretation of information.

a reply to: skalla

Not to mention, if he were truly trying to be unbiased about this topic, this

So, I took it upon my little biased, Jesus-lovin' self to find some unbiased information. This is harder than it seems. Not because the facts don't exist, but because they are produced most often by the faith community.

should have tipped him off a bit. If the idea of a global flood was true, it wouldn't be hard to find evidence for its existence. Heck, all you'd need to do is dig in your backyard to find the evidence. If a global flood had occurred, it would be well documented with supporting evidence (that would be extremely easy to find and identify) by the scientific community.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yurp, and the crazy thing is that it is entirely possible (and quite rational imo) to have a belief in god, jesus and salvation without requiring a literal reading of The Bible. Faith does not need facts, and that is fine by me. This just serves to make people's (eta: some people's) faith look extremely shaky.

Oh I do love reading these sort of threads!

I find the 'Global flood' Idea really scetchy but I wanted to mention something to give people some thought.

I grew up under Chatholic influence and by the age of 7 was also incoorperated into a group called "Xlukkarri" Now both have thier set beliefs, some simillar and some very different both based thier teachings by word of mouth or text written thousands of years ago. With the Global Flood idea from the church side yes and the Xlukkarri side no.

Give a bit of insight to the Xlukkari they are an old running traditional society much like Native Indian/American where they keep with old tradtions.

What intregued me is with Xlukkarri they beleive there was a massive flood (as another member posted about the Mediteranean being created) But the Xlukkarri state that they did beleive it was a world wide flood....at first. Aparently once the flooding subsided the few who survived made contact with the North African Tribes who had no idea the flood had even occured. In Xlukkarri Folklore the med was only 4 large lakes before the flood. Other than this event there is no such record in Xlukkari teachings before or after this event.

Yet to them St Paul came to Malta trying to explain that there was a world wide flood. What I take from this is what Im sure many would. Imagine Knowing one thing. Generation after generation telling the same story. Then you get a person who suddenly comes out of no where and says YOU were affected by a world wide flood. Yet according to the word of mouth and bits of text written here and there that there was a flood for the Med but other people had no such problem outside.

I know that its basically two sides of a coin where the Xlukkari have nothing more than stories but heck I beleive the same with Chistianity tbh. I hear alot about being unbiased....... I was raised by two realms of religion both I now know as an Adlut are no way near good enough to say anything from them as fact. They can give a hint to what happend but thats as far as it goes in my book.

I thought I would add this bit.

Limestone2 accounts for about 20% of all sedimentary rock.3 Any satisfactory explanation for the world’s sedimentary layers and fossils should also explain the enclosed limestone layers and limestone cement. This requires answering two questions, rarely asked and perhaps never before answered:
1. What is the origin of the earth’s limestone? Remarkably, earth’s limestone holds a thousand times more calcium and carbon than today’s atmosphere, oceans, coal, oil, and living matter combined. A simple, visual examination of limestone grains shows that few are ground-up seashells or corals, as some believe.

2. How were sediments cemented to form rocks? Specifically, how were large quantities of cementing agents (usually limestone and silica) produced, transported, and deposited, often quite uniformly, between sedimentary grains worldwide? Especially perplexing has been finding the source of so much silica and the water to distribute it. Geologists call this “the quartz problem.”4

Answering these questions in the context of the hydroplate theory will answer another question: What was the source of the carbon dioxide (CO2) needed to reestablish vegetation after the flood? Remember, preflood vegetation was buried during the flood, most of it becoming coal, oil, and methane.

www.creationscience.com... a reply to: glitchinthematrix

a reply to: glitchinthematrix

Thanks for posting your beliefs and your interest on a subject that you care about. Unfortunately all the usuals who vehemently hate the Bible are waiting to jump in and derail it (big surprise). I am honestly still undecided if Noah's flood was global or localized to the Middle East, but like most ancient cultures around the world I believe it happened.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Creationscience.com, your point is invalid.

Here is literally a whole list of reasons why the global flood is impossible:
Global flood

I'd post parts of the rationwiki article, but I can't quote the whole page. You'll have to click on the link and read it.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
a reply to: glitchinthematrix

Thanks for posting your beliefs and your interest on a subject that you care about. Unfortunately all the usuals who vehemently hate the Bible are waiting to jump in and derail it (big surprise). I am honestly still undecided if Noah's flood was global or localized to the Middle East, but like most ancient cultures around the world I believe it happened.

Congrats for being the ONLY person who replied to this thread without being a buttclown.

You know, I guess I just have to remind myself why I don't post too often every once in a while.

That's the problem with ATS. You can't be honest without someone slamming you. You can't share a belief...no matter what it is, and not get slammed. You can't write ANY post and not expect a boatload of jerks to show up and try and put you in your place because you must deserve it somehow. ATS should stand for A$$holes To Slam you.

I'll return to my silent corner now. I wasn't prepared for spending the next 3+ days totally avoiding the topic of my apparently ill-titled thread with people who can't lay down their own beliefs long enough to have a discussion about evidence of flooding from a few thousand years back or more.

I'm not asking for evidence of a Biblical flood. I'm not presenting evidence of such. I'm saying there is evidence in SOME locations where RECENT study has taken place that indicates some pretty extensive flooding around the same time period. Does anyone know of other locations BESIDES the ones in the articles I presented?

originally posted by: glitchinthematrix

Is there evidence of massive flooding worldwide?

Yes.

Has never been in dispute

Did it all happen at the same time?

No one can know.

It never happened all at once. Yes we do know.

Was it the Biblical flood?

See previous answer.

All evidence points to a localized event being the origin of the myth.

Does God exist?

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THAT!

When you post in this forum and are trying to find credibility for a literal interpretation of the bible, the existence of god is going to be brought into the discussion.