Really?! Is this what has become of ATS?

a reply to: MessageforAll

you know, part of what ATS has been about, is to show people to ask questions, to question everything ourselves in a quest for truth. To lead by example in that questioning.

Yet now, because people would rather bury their heads then face one piece of actual truth, we are no longer denying ignorance, or leading by example, or really showing to question everything...

a reply to: Bybyots

What's killing me is the irony: "Truth Seekers" demanding their entirely manufactured news source.

I think this misses the point - people aren't upset because a favorite source is being labelled subpar. People are upset because they were being labelled subpar

If we start criticizing each other for not being competent enough to think and then argue what we think - there really isn't much point in having an ATS

I understand that RT is a questionable source - (!) I've had to let go the idea that a few of my cherished sources are honest or reliable - government sponsored or corporate sponsored, I'm failing to see the difference any more

So, yes - the best of times - the worst of times. Nothing should be above reproach or scrutiny - nothing should be verboten

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: MessageforAll

many people don't think critically. It is no longer taught in schools, it is not taught in most homes. Thinking critically is actually not a widely held skill.

Agreed! 100% , people can't think critically anymore just because they are spoon fed. No need to think because we will tell you how to think.

Thats why adding that tag was not the answer, it actually defies the whole think idea.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: MessageforAll

many people don't think critically. It is no longer taught in schools, it is not taught in most homes. Thinking critically is actually not a widely held skill.

The same could be said for any topic on ATS?
What should we do... walk every single person viewing the site through it all step by step?
Should we explain every single source, the biases and leanings, explain every conspiracy... or should we let them read the site, read the threads and make their own mind up and figure things out for themselves.

The reason people gravitate to ATS (I thought) IS because they question things, think "differently" and want something that they can't get at their glossy magazine website.
If.. and I say IF... all of this is really about some Facebook posters not knowing that RT is state owned or Anti-American or whatever then god help us all.

I hate to think what else we'll have to do to accommodate other non-members or make things easier for those on Facebook.

FFS.

a reply to: MessageforAll

I don't see it that way... too many people don't question RT, even on here they don't. And many, if not most people outside of here don't even know that Russia owns RT.

originally posted by: MessageforAll
But expecting the same amount of intelligence ( I know how awful that sounds ) on a FB page is well... nearly impossible. I don't go to the FB so I wouldn't know.

You need to remember that 90% of the visitors to ATS are from that uninformed universe. Only 10% -- usually much less -- of our daily traffic is from membership.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: MessageforAll

I don't see it that way... too many people don't question RT, even on here they don't. And many, if not most people outside of here don't even know that Russia owns RT.

And? Most people don't know that 6 Corporations own almost ALL of the US media?
Most people don't know that there were some dodgy goings on surrounding 9/11.
Most people don't know that most political parties are being controlled and funded by rich people who want things done their way.
Most people don't know that their is a war going on for their minds...

MOST people don't know ****

So we have to rearrange the site for these people?

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Impressive and frightening at the same time.

Since I've never used FB to see this site, how does it work? Are all of the threads posted here also posted there?

I never said it was the essence of your post.

The essence of your OP was: :insert loud crying noise here: something about ATS has changed and I do not like it!

Which as a member here, you can post things like that all day long if you so desire. The staff and site owner will always listen to your complaint.

They may or may not agree with it however.

But, if you'd like, and I most certainly can, I can go back through this thread, and post a link to each and every post that you made where you made the statement that basically read each time:

"The site owner is not allowed to change things!"

You did say that, many times in this thread. Which is wrong.

I posted to correct that. Making statements on here that are wrong, untrue or just a flat out fabrication tends to bug me a bit.

As to the essence of your OP: We are all big boys and girls here, who SHOULD be able to think for ourselves, and labels of any kind should never be accepted at face value.

Ever.

Any one, even a new person that comes here, and sees a label, and believes it without doing their own research and coming to their own conclusions, are people that will believe anything they are told.

Apparently, we have a lot of people here on ATS that are that way, which is sad.

But again, I was not arguing your OP, I was correcting a false statement you kept making throughout this thread.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Russian blogger law puts new restrictions on Internet freedoms

MOSCOW — Russia’s shrinking space for freedom of expression on the Internet is set to constrict further Friday, as tough regulations go into effect that will give Russian authorities powerful oversight over the country’s most-read online personalities, including opposition bloggers and politicians.

I was going to post essentially the same news from Al Jazeera - but how many people take them seriously?

Russia is about to go into a communications lock-down. I'd rather be able to have access to everything - even if it's crap

a reply to: blupblup

It was threads that did all that, showed various sources and showed people the truth that led me to ATS.

We stopped doing that a while back, and instead started taking propaganda at face value... I don't even know how.

Threads by hefficide, wrabbit, and the like... are what made me stay on ATS. And they did walk you through everything.

It's funny because I cannot seem to do what they were capable of. I see a story and I think gee that would be a great story... and I follow the source and follow the source and follow the source only to find it was never a story in the first place...

Hell... I cannot even make a decent thread because there are so many lies out there you cannot even count them. The same is for every media outlet that does not do its own investigative journalism... and they are a dying breed, and even they have slants.

But yeah.... I think it's the Op's job to make people think, to challenge the status quo... not report trash and make others go through the effort to find out if it was all a lie or not.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

That's.... awful. Times they are a changing. Damn, thats just.. Ty for the reply btw.

OpinionatedB I would never argue over the fact that most people don't realize just what RT is, but your own comment
"you know, part of what ATS has been about, is to show people to ask questions, to question everything ourselves in a quest for truth. To lead by example in that questioning. "

Is the very reason why these tags where not the answer. I couldn't have said it better to why ATS mustn't interfere in pointing out what is wrong and what isn't.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I'm a Muslim, and know how many journalists have quit because Al-Jazeera forced them to report from biases...

I wont watch Al-Jazeera, I used to, but it went way way way downhill... when it became a state run propaganda source too...

It's funded by the ruling family of Qatar. (sorry)... pretty much as state run as you can get. And they suck now and truth matters little, they lost many good reporters due to that too.

originally posted by: MessageforAll
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

That's.... awful. Times they are a changing. Damn, thats just.. Ty for the reply btw.

OpinionatedB I would never argue over the fact that most people don't realize just what RT is, but your own comment
"you know, part of what ATS has been about, is to show people to ask questions, to question everything ourselves in a quest for truth. To lead by example in that questioning. "

Is the very reason why these tags where not the answer. I couldn't have said it better to why ATS mustn't interfere in pointing out what is wrong and what isn't.

I think you missed this part when I said:

not report trash and make others go through the effort to find out if it was all a lie or not.

a reply to: OpinionatedB


Exactly my point. If people read the threads and research and think, they will get there in the end.
Putting signs up and modifying and starting down the road to censorship is just mirroring what Putin is doing.... and that is not good.

ATS has changed, I think we can all see that.

What used to be about 70% conspiracies and alternative topics and the rest a mix of news/politics/science/religion etc, is now about 70% News/Politics and the rest spread out over conspiracies/religion/environment etc.
And it gets UGLY man. I understand it's a battleground and it's tough and people are trying to lead and deceive, but that is LIFE man.... it's a big, bad world and people need to stand up for themselves and think for themselves.

Not have their info controlled/edited/labelled or whatever.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Can't truth seeking be a collaborative effort? Not every OP intends to misinform and many of us have day jobs.

My most favorite threads are the ones that start out with something interesting and grow into a huge education for me on the particular topic. But I don't expect all of that in the first post by a single member.

a reply to: loam

I expect the OP to be about denying ignorance... not parroting trash and hoping we wont find out.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

That's just it, most of what RT post's is normal news, the same subjects you will find on BBC or CNN. RT will just skew the wording to make it sound very anti-west. And how great Russia's response is.

Does that in any way effect the news itself? No. IF a plane crashes RT will list the same amount of casualties as CNN.

CNN will say : And thank god our medical staff arrived in less then 10 minutes
RT will say : US medical staff took nearly 10 minutes to arrive at the scene leaving the poor man helpless.

This is RT ( most of the time )

a reply to: blupblup

And yet, conspiracy thinking has gone mainstream- at least more so than before.

Strange, confusing times we live in.

In the end, though, I still see a strong desire on the part of most members here to deny ignorance, even when I still think they get it wrong.

ETA:

But I think you are right. The labeling probably isn't a good route.

MessageforAll and blupblup. I can see you are both impassioned and intelligent. You both do not want RT labeled because you believe all labels are wrong. That people should decide for themselves. That is a very valid opinion to have. Your pleas in this thread are probably what made SkepticOverlord change his mind. If all posters were disagreeing because of the things you said. I do not think this would even be an issue.

Most posters are not disagreeing because of the things you said. Go read all the threads about this issue. There is a large contingent of posters that are against this simply because they only want to read things that agree with them. RT right now is the news outlet that most agrees with them. They do not care if it is true or not. If it is state run or not. They write book length posts about how awesome and cool and better RT is than every other outlet. They attack any point of view that is not their own. They do not want to debate. They do not want to talk. They want you to believe like they do. And then cry and moan if you do not. I believe that is the troll army that SkepticOverlord was talking about. That is the real issue here.