Dressed for war- ferguson police

a reply to: Witness2008

Yeah I know what you mean. I've noticed the Racist comments too. I just gloss over them for the most part. Personally, it doesn't matter if Race was involved in it or not either. The problem isn't Race, it's a problem of Authority and Power being too much for some people.

I'm white and have had white cops do stupid sh*t to me too. Those cops do that to everyone. I've had them accuse my wife of being a whore. Tell me they didn't believe me that I had never been to prison. Illegally search and detain me. Had a whole team of guys search my house looking for someone once. Looking through drawers and stuff like you can hide someone in a damn dresser drawer!!

Some people just let power go to their heads and they become A-holes. Doesn't matter what color you are. They think they are above anyone and everyone they don't like or don't agree with.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: OptimusCrime

originally posted by: Thefarmer
a reply to: OptimusCrime

Part of the militias that went to the bundy ranch

I think they should be on route to ferguson really as this is more likely where there needed more

You don't get militia support for rioting in your own town, destroying your own surroundings. Sorry.

No but you do get militia support for deadbeats who don't pay their bills and make violent threats against the Feds.

So, you want a militia to help riot in a town? You make a lot of sense /sarcasm

If anyone needed a militia it was the business owners in this case. But you keep making up excuses and pointing out other actions to justify this one.

originally posted by: scghst1
a reply to: mOjOm

So after I went to sleep last night it seems the latest from twitter and the reporters is that there was a woman who was fired upon into her skull from an unknown suspect in a drive-by.

Another person who said to be holding a gun but actually running away from the police and shot at. Where do we draw the line on this "shoot in the back, ask later" mentality?!?

Source

This source sums it up for me in my head.
Group of people shooting shotguns in ski-masks (not okay)
Officer gives pursuit
Officers "says" man pulled a secondly concealed handgun on officer(I'm really doubting this)
Officer shoots man.
Man is still in hospital under critical care.

I really wish there was more on this second shooting but alas there isn't much since they reported it and then the scanners went nearly silent for almost half an hour afterwards and they blocked the entire location off from anyone at all following the incident. Who truly knows what happened but from the premise of all of this it would be just as safe to assume that the officer gunned the man down.

Wow, I have no idea about the second shooting. Haven't even read about that story at all in fact. Might not even bother reading it. I think one is enough for me. I just hope they handle this one correctly. I'm tired of reading about these type of things happening almost daily!! It's starting to be difficult to NOT think about them all the time and it leaves me in a dark mood when I'm out living my life.

When a thread gets so large, much of what is said, falls into the middle, or deep into a thread.
So I would like to add what I had already posted in here, with some fresh thoughts, along with some thoughts I already share.

But I want to stress a point in this post.
I do not support violence. But on the other hand, what other choice do they have? Due process? The system that already failed them over and over again. There will be some who do it the 'right' way. And others who take more drastic measures. And many who will simply use this as an excuse to do some bad things. Again, it is what our society has created with our "greed" system. A corrupt system, that not only corrupts its civil servants, but also corrupts the very people who live in it.

As this whole ordeal is the result of lines being drawn in the sand. You can't just expect people who have been abused by this system to just roll over. You get to a point, where when their is no justice.

There can be no peace. The world is slowly falling apart. This is the world you live in. Corruption and greed. This is what it yields. I can't say I blame anyone who has finally had enough. Not that it is right, but it would just be swept under the rug, and it would fall into the shadows, and repeat.

I think we have had enough. Something must change. And it will. Either by force, or by the will of the people. I see people making some noise to be heard, I see other doing it by due process. Between both groups, something will be heard. All that "stuff" is insured.

A person lost their life, and no one would listen, unless drastic actions where taken. His name was Mike Brown.

I do not support violence. But on the other hand, what other choice do they have? Due process? The system that already failed them over and over again. There will be some who do it the 'right' way. And others who take more drastic measures. And many who will simply use this as an excuse to do some bad things. Again, it is what our society has created with our "greed" system. A corrupt system, that not only corrupts its civil servants, but also corrupts the very people who live in it.

Its a tricky one here. complex and lots of different ways of looking at this. So many points of view. As this post---Just my point of view, from a crooked corrupt system that lures people to do the "right" thing. Yet due process is a maze of BS and Red tape. My view is slightly jaded.. Hence my reply.

I did a google search on Mike Brown for a criminal background search. But I will save that for another thread.
His family and others have said. He was not a violent kid.
I still do not have enough information on this to make a valid claim. Only offer up my thoughts and feelings like the rest of you. But it is NOT all cut and dry. I suggest you all who share "facts" verify your facts and sources.

So yes indeed there are going to be those who use this as an excuse to do some stupid things. No doubt.
But that should not white wash those doing the right thing.. And trying to do the right thing.

You can't just dismiss this for a small group of people, who are just as bad as the officer who did this.
There is corruption on all ends of the spectrum here. We can not Damn all the officers in this area.. Nor can we damn all the people here either, for some "outlaw" actions.
It works both ways here.

originally posted by: darkwarrior
a reply to: subtopia

And hundreds of people screaming kill the police. That area earned the treatment theyre getting. No question.

This is the reason why I made a Re-post.
NO one "earned" Brush stoke broad treatment. That is a dangerous line of thinking, and it is your right to feel what ever you want to feel. But slightly skewed and very one sided mind.

a reply to: subtopia

And hundreds of people screaming kill the police. That area earned the treatment theyre getting. No question.

originally posted by: darkwarrior

And hundreds of people screaming kill the police. That area earned the treatment theyre getting. No question.

Really? They "earned" it? Did Michael Brown earn his own death by being shot in the back with his arms raised as well? I would suggest you get educated on this subject before posting ANY of your slanted views.

Link for non-educated folk.
Link

Edited to add: A police officer caught yelling "Bring it you F#$%*!@ animals! Bring it!" at this link. About a quarter way down.

As far as the shooting I won't pretend to know what happened.

Regardless if the officer was in the right or in the wrong a riot is occuring. You really have to look at this as two seperate incidents.

As for the riot what are the police supposed to do? Let it go on unchecked?

To those that feel the police are handling the riot improperly how would you suggest they put a stop to it?

As for all the "military" style gear that the police are using there is nothing that I can think of that any citizen cannot actually own.

Any citizen (non felon) can own a baton, a plastic or ballistic shield, a semi auto AR-15, a full auto AR-15 (with tax stamp), supressor (with tax stamp) forms of tear gas, pepper spray, pepper spray launchers, body armor, gas maasks and even armored vehicles.

As for the "military" style training a citizen can attend any of the numerous schools througout America (Magpul Dynamics, Tactical Response, EAG, etc) and receive training that is light years beyond what your average patrol officer receives.

As a police officer I absolutely agree that the citizens should have the access to the same weapons that law enforcement does. The fact is citizens do have access to the same types of weapons, gear and training as law enforcement does.

originally posted by: scghst1

originally posted by: darkwarrior

And hundreds of people screaming kill the police. That area earned the treatment theyre getting. No question.

Really? They "earned" it? Did Michael Brown earn his own death by being shot in the back with his arms raised as well? I would suggest you get educated on this subject before posting ANY of your slanted views.

Link for non-educated folk.
Link


Edited to add: A police officer caught yelling "Bring it you F#$%*!@ animals! Bring it!" at this link. About a quarter way down.

I'd just like to ask, do you have information we don't? I ask because you seem very certain of what happened when very few facts have been publicly made available.

a reply to: lynn112

Most-Live source of credible information
Link

If you go on Twitter and search #Ferguson there are multiple stories, pictures and videos being posted routinely from what happened. I know nothing more than anyone else could have readily searched.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

The shooting and the rioting are indeed connected. Cause and effect, what goes around comes around, and the blatant reality that the black populations all around the country have, and must contend with racial biases, that we white folks are now getting a taste of, we are all considered guilty until proven innocent.

If I am not mistaken hasn't there been two situations in L.A where martial law was pretty much implemented?

Sometime in the 60s and the 90s riots got so bad the national guard was called in just in case.
People tend to forget what people power can do, and if it gets out of control all hell breaks loose, is this over kill? I don't think so. I honestly think it's the appropriate approach.

Another scenario is Vancouver a few years back, even a simple hockey game triggered a city wide riot and the police couldn't control it.

a reply to: Witness2008

I obviously know that the rioting is a result of what the people involoved are assuming was an injustice (the shooting).

This thread was about the riot and the police "dressed for war."

I am attempting to counter the arguement of the militarization of the police by explaining my point of view.

I am also inquring as to how the people who feel that the police are responding to the RIOT improperly woud respond.

a reply to: scghst1

Because it is posted on the internet, it must be true? I'm sorry, but that is a silly approach to a situation that could cost more lives. The only facts as of now is that Brown is dead and that the bullets that killed him came from a police officers gun. Beyond that, everything, including "witness statements" is pure conjecture.

On topic, this is not a protest, it is a riot and law enforcement are trying to protect not only the community, but themselves. I don't blame them one bit.

originally posted by: lynn112
Beyond that, everything, including "witness statements" is pure conjecture.

LOL What?!? How does that even make sense? Even everything the guy Brown was with said is just conjecture? I feel sorry that you cannot pull away the wool in front of your eyes and wake up. First night was a peacefully candlelight vigil when the police showed up with K9's and tear gas and told them to all go home. Second night was the rioting and looting. And last night was peacefully protest up until some idiots got it into their heads that shooting was the way to go about it. THAT is what I am not condoning.

The media should not have been forced out. Little to no true reporting is being done whatsoever. All we have is "what's on the internet". And I tend to go with what the majority of people are saying is happening.

I was born and raised in a neighboring town, this is rediculous. I'm not talking just about Ferguson...you guys claim to deny ignorance, but never stop to apply what you claim.

1.) It's not militarization of police, it's deployed swat(special weapons and tactics...) teams from St louis city, county, and neighboring counties and cities. In response to civilian and police who have been fired apon.

2.) They are not firing on protesters, unless your idea of a protest is chaos and destruction.

3.) 2 people have been shot, both last night, both caused by the looters, one black female (that is known in my circle of friends) who was shot in the forehead, she's expected to survive. And a 19 yr old male, who was apart of a group that drew on a crowd with shotguns. They were chased off by the police you so despise. In pursuit the 19 year old drew his handgun on an officer, the officer fired and critically wounded the man(don't forget 18+ are no longer considered children).

4.) Where the hell did you get your information about what goes on in america?! we have access to the same equipment police do, and civilian versions of the military hardware. And with permit, the same military weapons. No there is not a mass shooting every week...

Although i don't agree with rioting, and see it as a cop out, this is Police State 101. Anyway if you watch this video you can see how we asked for this ourselves by allowing ideology to penetrate our minds. The same people that unknowingly helped this happen are feeling it's wrath right now. Very sad what we allowed to happen to our country.

Short version with the main details.. Excuse the headline to the video. This goes way beyond Obama, and Republicans play a huge role themselves. www.youtube.com...

The full version ... www.youtube.com...

a reply to: lynn112

No. It is not a riot. There had been violence committed on Sunday, but all other gatherings since then have been peaceful, well, up until the time that the the militarized police decided to disperse a peaceful but vocal crowd with rubber bullets and tear gas. I suggest that the police instigated the violence going on in Ferguson and other communities. They certainly did when one of them shot Michael Brown.

originally posted by: scghst1

originally posted by: lynn112
Beyond that, everything, including "witness statements" is pure conjecture.

LOL What?!? How does that even make sense? Even everything the guy Brown was with said is just conjecture? I feel sorry that you cannot pull away the wool in front of your eyes and wake up. First night was a peacefully candlelight vigil when the police showed up with K9's and tear gas and told them to all go home. Second night was the rioting and looting. And last night was peacefully protest up until some idiots got it into their heads that shooting was the way to go about it. THAT is what I am not condoning.

The media should not have been forced out. Little to no true reporting is being done whatsoever. All we have is "what's on the internet". And I tend to go with what the majority of people are saying is happening.

I have no wool over my eyes, I simply prefer to have facts rather than jump to conclusions. I know witness statements, even in the best of circumstances are often wrong and I take them with a grain of salt unless evidence gives the statement weight.

Besides, I've seen one to many times were information on the internet was passed off as fact only later to be proven untrue. Basically, I'll wait to see the findings from the multiple investigations before I decide for myself what happened.

As for if the media was being kept out, that depends on who you believe. (different sources with different info)

And IMO, whether it started off peacefully or if it was going to be a riot is a moot point now. It became a riot, people were injured, businesses were destroyed, things were stolen and a community is in chaos. The police need to respond to that in a way that will be effective.


There are multiple ongoing investigations with various agencies involved so what reason is there for the riots to continue? What is the goal now?

originally posted by: darkwarrior
a reply to: subtopia

And hundreds of people screaming kill the police. That area earned the treatment theyre getting. No question.

Except there weren't hundreds of people threatening the police. It was a couple idiots.
And maybe if the police hadn't threatened a peaceful and legal vigil with violence, there never would have been any riots in the first place.

originally posted by: chaoticborders


Except there weren't hundreds of people threatening the police. It was a couple idiots.
And maybe if the police hadn't threatened a peaceful and legal vigil with violence, there never would have been any riots in the first place.

This is exactly what I've been talking about. Every aspect of it all was peaceful until the police came in with SWAT and shot tear gas into a group of people performing a vigil!!! I couldn't even begin to describe any outrage I would have had if I was mourning a friend and then had K9's in my face before being gassed out! What is America coming to....