Donetsk rebels call for a truce

Ukraine rebels call for a truce www.bbc.co.uk... mods please move if needed ... Things are heating up it seems

They are calling for a truce...'Sounds like things are heating up' - Indeed.

????

originally posted by: lightedhype
They are calling for a truce...'Sounds like things are heating up' - Indeed.

It sounds like they want it to stop before they are utterly defeated. They should have accepted the truce weeks ago, when it was offered. That said, Ukraine needs to repair quite a few fences, so perhaps they'll accept and peace will break-out.

It's what Russia wants because these sanctions and pariah status is doing Putin and his gang of sycophants no favours.

Regards

Cigarette break....

Aint this a good thing? One less war going on in the world, a chance for peace

I'd say it was cooling not heating up

My guess is that Kiev wont go for a truce .It wouldn't serve Washington unless Russia is willing to give back the Crimea which will never happen .

originally posted by: lightedhype
They are calling for a truce...'Sounds like things are heating up' - Indeed.

????

I was thinking more along the lines of what Hamas does.

Start something that results in armed conflict, run their mouth, only to find themselves on the losing end, which in turn the demands for a cease fire are made. Its only to allow more weapons and equipment / Russian manpower to cross into rebel areas.

The former self appointed DPR leader resigned, most likely because of the situation.

Russia can call its armed forces whatever they want, however entering a sovereign nation under the pretext of sending "peacekeepers" in the manner Russia wants is impossible.


The easiest way to end this is for the remaining rebels to surrender and to stop taking food / water from the civilians trapped / forced tor remain by rebels.

I would say no to the ceasefire unless the rebels offer unconditional surrender.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

serve Washington what?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia can call its armed forces whatever they want, however entering a sovereign nation under the pretext of sending "peacekeepers" in the manner Russia wants is impossible.

Rebels are calling for truce to cater to humanitarian needs. Block for block fighting in a nearly besieged city will result in more civilian lives hurt and lost.

Russia should and need not intervene officially. There is a big unguarded gap opened in border around the Luhansk. Russia just needs do send in truckloads and truckloads of anti-tank missiles, RPGs, body armor, drones, ammo etc. Even flatbeds with tarp covers and semi trucks with closed trailers can be used to send tanks, APCs and artillery guns. That will really cost Kiev Junta force some heavy losses in all men, material and money.

Then Russia can call the Red Cross and have them inspect humanitarian aid loads on Russian airports. Once these loads is cleared i.e. no ammo or weapons, then planes can be charted from some international third party company and these loads delivered to the Donetsk and Luhansk airports directly to the city authorities.

Once civilians are hurt more via Kiev Junta's artillery shelling on indiscriminate basis, then more local volunteers will show to boost the rebel strengths.

Btw, Civilians were not getting killed when rebels had the control of the areas. This started to happen only when ATO started and indiscriminate shelling, rocketing and Ariel bombing started to happen. WHO IS THE REAL TERRORIST HERE ??

Porky Poro, Kiev Junta and Ukraine Army military commanders ordering such shelling should be tried to war crimes in the international courts.

If the rebs are suing for peace then the locals probably do not support them any longer....Its hard to wage war when the people are hostile to you......Perhaps they may be losing recruits too,,

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: lightedhype
They are calling for a truce...'Sounds like things are heating up' - Indeed.

????

I was thinking more along the lines of what Hamas does.

Start something that results in armed conflict, run their mouth, only to find themselves on the losing end, which in turn the demands for a cease fire are made. Its only to allow more weapons and equipment / Russian manpower to cross into rebel areas.

The former self appointed DPR leader resigned, most likely because of the situation.

Russia can call its armed forces whatever they want, however entering a sovereign nation under the pretext of sending "peacekeepers" in the manner Russia wants is impossible.


The easiest way to end this is for the remaining rebels to surrender and to stop taking food / water from the civilians trapped / forced tor remain by rebels.

I would say no to the ceasefire unless the rebels offer unconditional surrender.

I was going to post almost exactly this.

originally posted by: victor7
Btw, Civilians were not getting killed when rebels had the control of the areas. This started to happen only when ATO started and indiscriminate shelling, rocketing and Ariel bombing started to happen. WHO IS THE REAL TERRORIST HERE ??

Porky Poro, Kiev Junta and Ukraine Army military commanders ordering such shelling should be tried to war crimes in the international courts.

Proven false. The rebels are indiscriminately killing civilians.

"We're afraid of the Ukrainian army, which is firing on the city, and of the rebels of the Donetsk People's Republic, who are robbing and killing civilians," said Dmitry Andronov, a 47-year-old resident.

abcnews.go.com...

By refusing the call for Cease fire, Kiev has lost a another big big chunk of their country after Crimea. Infact, DPR leadership knows how Kiev Junta thinks but they brought this proposal to gain some PR points on peace etc.

Btw, regarding that ABCnews link, just give $50 to any hungry Donetsk citizen and get any statement recorded.

Rebels might be looting the public for food or basic needs but murdering ???? probably only those who were caught in activities like spying or helping the enemy.

Rebels are being called Terrorists............so to remove terrorists you shell the common civilians from 20 Kms not knowing where the shell is going to fall? No civilized society resorts to such practices. Terrorists are the incompetent Kiev Junta leaders and their forces.

Since after 9-11, every operation to oppress and suppress people has an Anti Terrorist glory tag.......till the time it is in the interest of the US, NWO bankers and NeoCons.

a reply to: victor7

It's nice how you keep plodding along after being proven wrong.

a reply to: victor7

Rebels are being called Terrorists............so to remove terrorists you shell the common civilians from 20 Kms not knowing where the shell is going to fall? No civilized society resorts to such practices. Terrorists are the incompetent Kiev Junta leaders and their forces.

And what civilized group of people does this...

“They beat me with their fists, a chair, anything they could find. They stubbed out cigarettes on my leg and electrocuted me.”

www.thejournal.ie...

The gunmen got angry with his response and plundered Krasiuk’s shop of used consumer electronics. They took his car and detained him for two days until his wife paid nearly $2,000 for his release.

www.kyivpost.com...



Good try, but the separatists are tossing up a hail mary in hopes of saving their asses from being taken out by Ukraine.

Since after 9-11, every operation to oppress and suppress people has an Anti Terrorist glory tag.......till the time it is in the interest of the US, NWO bankers and NeoCons.

I would love to see you provide evidence to back this ridiculous statement. As the US isn't the only country fighting terrorism, but with your mindset everything that happens in the world is because of the US.

a reply to: victor7

Russia should and need not intervene officially.

So you are finally admitting they have intervened unofficially by supplying the separatists...about time.

Once civilians are hurt more via Kiev Junta's artillery shelling on indiscriminate basis, then more local volunteers will show to boost the rebel strengths.

So then why is it only places that are under rebel control are being hit by artillery?

You try to make it look as though they are just shelling any town and village after the separatists have left, and that would be a fallacy that you keep trying to portray.

The locals aren't going to be helping the separatists, which is why they are having to contract out to Chechans and Russians to fight in Ukraine. Locals aren't going to help the ones who terrorized them through this conflict which is why they are losing their strongholds like they are.

Porky Poro, Kiev Junta and Ukraine Army military commanders ordering such shelling should be tried to war crimes in the international courts.

And as you have shown you on many Ukraine threads, the separatists have committed crimes everywhere they are and the stories are slowly coming out. Not to mention the crime of bringing down a commercial airliner by the separatists it isn't going to end well for them.

In the end RUssia will throw those responsible under the bus to save face, and those responsible go by the moniker of separatists/terrorists.

originally posted by: victor7

Once civilians are hurt more via Kiev Junta's artillery shelling on indiscriminate basis, then more local volunteers will show to boost the rebel strengths.

So basically you are saying you want a situation where more civilians die on purpose just to fuel the war?

You are sick in the head.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Civilians in rebel controlled territory will continue to die the closer the pro russian / rebels get closer to defeat. As I stated in the other thread it will be like Hitler and Berlin at the end. The civilians will be blamed by the rebels / pro russians for not fighting alongside the rebels, and as such will be blamed for the loss by the pro russian / rebels.

a reply to: victor7

Russia should and need not intervene officially. There is a big unguarded gap opened in border around the Luhansk. Russia just needs do send in truckloads and truckloads of anti-tank missiles, RPGs, body armor, drones, ammo etc. Even flatbeds with tarp covers and semi trucks with closed trailers can be used to send tanks, APCs and artillery guns. That will really cost Kiev Junta force some heavy losses in all men, material and money.

Ukraine has guided missiles. Any Russian convoy crossing the border can be destroyed and the Russian presence proven. This would initiate NATO air support... but, by all means, cheer on.

I do not have an original bias in this matter as I usually dislike nationalism and the right wing (which is admittedly part of the Ukrainian government side). And I do not approve of a possible oppression of the Russian minority in Ukraine, neither of holding on to a territory (the Crimea) which has only been Ukrainian since the 50's formally. I would have renegotiated the whole territorial issue after the popular votes.

However, there have been armed gangs - too well armed and financed - on the Russian side. It did not start as Maidan - hundreds of thousands of civilians protesting. It started with men in uniforms and guns and tanks, well trained from the start, and aided by one of the strongest armies of the region, led by Russian-born leaders.

The rebels most likely shot down the Malay airplane full of Westerners and they got away lying about it. (I wonder how they explain that to their own folks). Their ideology has been total paranoia from the start: they think that 1 the whole world is against Russians; 2 all Ukrainians are evil fascists (when actually, as Xcathedra cites on these threads, the far right is represented by higher numbers in the Russian Parliament than in the Ukrainian one); 3 all the Soviets did were liberation and industrualizing, and now these ungrateful Ukrainians want to take the undeserved fruits of their labor away.

Soviet history is not a whole lot prettier than if Nazi Germany was allowed to go on from the POV of some non-Russian folks in that empire. What about the Holodomor, when millions of Ukrainians were condemned - on an ethnic basis - to death by starvation while their Stalimist masters from other nationalities were selling the grabbed "surplus grain" to the West (1932-33)? What about Chernobyl, which was a Soviet affair, not a Ukrainian one, in Ukrainian territory? BTW Ukraine renounced nuclear arms as soon as it was independent, but Russia did not to this day. Why do you need nuclear arms when the Cold War was supposed to be over?

When I examine news on both sides, there are regular mishaps and distortions, lies and propaganda, but there seems to be far more on the Russian side, poisoned by the pathological thought patterns of total paranoia and sweeping ideology. All that happened was orchestrated by the evil Westerners who want to get all decent people on Earth.

Hundreds of thousands of civilians were protesting in Ukraine for months to remove the Russian-controlled Yanukovich, but never mind, to these paranoiac true-believers all that was merely a paid psyop by the CIA or whatever. (God, what naiveté). Well, proof is still lacking that so many people would have been on the payroll for months on end.

The whole situation reminds me of the independence of Bosnia which the Serbian minority fiercely opposed (led by Karadzic), except the Donbass rebels don't have a single charismatic leader. The Bosnian Serbs were also screaming murder (which they could not prove), but the whole aggression and conflict was fueled, polarized and armed mainly by Milosevic from the comfort of his own nation-state, another Eastern European thug who happened to somehow mutate over the years from the head of a Communist bureaucratic state into a national hero, a savior of Greater Serbia. According to the Serbian rhetoric then, all those "Fascist Croatians" and "Muslims" (meaning simple Bosnians who were neither particularly religious nor organized) were attacking and victimizing innocent Serbs who had sacrificed themselves in the war and during the Communist state for the sake of all these other ungrateful nations.

The Western press was trying its utmost to present both sides as equal but they weren't. There was a bully with a lot of arms on one side, and some civilians trying to resurrect a weak but independent and democratic state after decades of enjoying the status of a colony.

A wounded national pride, a mission to save the world from the evils of Western capitalism, incredible amounts of alcohol (Russia is still No. 1 on the world list) and firearms have fueled this rebellion from the start. Many of the supposed crimes of the Ukrainian government were shown later to be fabrications of the Russian state press and TV.

Not all, it is already deplorable that people are forced to declare national allegiance and preferences, or change names from Russian when this is unnatural in mixed areas.
Plus we know that strongholds were bombed - including civilian areas. Well, the Ukraine is not Gaza, the rebels are not using human shields, though some may be actually as possessed by ideology as Hamas activists.

Some areas were apparently combed by far right groups screening people. As for the torture and mass murders alleged by Russian media, I have not seen much credible evidence. However, there seems to be quite a bit on their side.

There seems to be much hatred and fear on both sides, but the ideology of these paranoiacs is scary. It does not look like they merely want freedom and equality with the Ukrainians; they want no less than ruling them as it was in the Soviet empire (the Soviet hymn already made a reference that the mighty nation of Russia forged the marriage of nations - a stragne and telling metaphor).