ISIS/USA................Gaza/Israel...............Help me out here

a reply to: silvanus

No ISIS is a branch from Al-Qaeda.
It was the CIA opperatives that trained Al-Qaeda that spread radical islamist beliefs.

ISIS was a spawn of this outcome, Tho Not indirectly created by CIA. It was formed out of agents who had gone Rogue.

That's as much as i know from it anyways.
Non of them are controlled by CIA only through weapons embargos/Drug deals.

Basically they are being bought out by very rich gang leaders.
The CIA learned all their techniques and more from the Mob/Organized criminal families.
In order to build the foundation of a crime organization that would eventually fund itself. Which it is Right now. Seizing monetary assets and creating genocide and fear to establish dominance over the region.

Why do you think anti war protestors in Gaza were killed? Peace threatens money when it comes to Arms and Drugs sales.

And Gold and other valuables can be claimed. Acomplishing a desired goal funnels more funds into quarentined areas. And tunnels smuggle weapons and ammunitions/Rockets.

That's how they are able to continually barrage Israel is through these smuggling tunnels.
Anyways that's my oppinion on all this.
The Palastinians arn't just dealing with religious extremeists. They are dealing with religious extremists who are part of an organized crime organization.... Obviously as all they do is crime and the very pool of money they use was gained through crime and theft.

Why do you think ISIS is rolling around robbing banks? That's something gangs would do if they had the fire power to do it....

Live and let live. How does it all get so complicated? How did we get here? Palestine has a right to exist... the Jews deserve a homeland, did it have to be Palestine? Did it have to be at the cost of life and displacement? Hamas could not have existed were Palestine left alone. What propaganda could Hamas have used if there was no fence and no blockades.

ISIS could not have existed, Al Qaeda couldn't have existed... without US Middle east policy. What propaganda could those evil bastards have used without US missiles dropping out of the sky?

Hamas is wrong, Israel is wrong, ISIS is wrong, the US is wrong, Russia is wrong, China is wrong... terrorism is wrong but isn't imperialism and colonialism also wrong? Taking without permission and by force is wrong. Manipulating people is wrong.

We're all being dragged into this, all being manipulated into taking a side. The only side to take is on the side of innocent lives and letting people live as they want to live. Most people chiming in on these issues seem to think they are black and white, they aren't... they are very complex and maybe the beginning of the solution lies in specificity and refusing to be boxed in by anyone and refusing to let anyone paint you as unpatriotic (that goes for any country) or anti-christian, anti-jew, anti-muslim because you're only calling out what you know is wrong. Most importantly don't let yourself fall into the trap of generalizing and demonizing whole groups based on the actions of a few because then you become part of the problem.

Sorry for the rant.

This is the first time ever I can proudly applaud the US for doing what they claim to be. The defender of nations when it is rightfully called for. You should be happy ISIS is getting a spanking, after all, they're Sunni Muslims just like your neighbor that you despise so much. Except these guys make Hamas look like amateurs. Next one who deserves a spanking is Israel.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: elixz

But if a Gaza like threat was near Our borders then we would probably destroy them.

You mean destroy Mexico because of Drug Cartels?

After all, their shipments of drugs are destroying American lives. So yah, according to that logic we begin bombing Mexico population centers. Every time theres a whoops (destroyed hospital, church or school) we just claim that under it was a drug lab.

Seems like something the American government would say.

And you think that the Israeli government is any different than the American government? Hah!

a reply to: cody599

If you put any credibility into prophecy, Israel will be leveled eventually.. I'm not saying I want that to happen but both the Bible and the Qu'ran point to this outcome.

a reply to: FlySolo

Why? Because they have decided to start killing off the barbarians they armed and trained in the first place?

a reply to: DarknStormy

Whatever their reason I don't care just as long as they get squashed.

The ISIS is not getting a spanking according to this.



Sounds like more propaganda and lies to make the people think they are doing something about the ISIS when in actual fact they are not. Why would the US/Israel care for the people of Iraq. They never have done before!

Just like Israel have never cared for the Palestinians. Ever since the UN Partition of Palestine in 1947 the Israeli's have been murdering the people there for the simple reason that they didn't want a part of Palestine. They wanted it all! The Israeli's had no respect for the partition boundaries and began attacking the fleeing people. They lined up whole families against the walls of their houses and shot them. (Sounds like the Nazi's) Murders, massacres, rapes and destruction of Palestinian villages and homes continued as the Israeli offensive turned into Ethnic Cleaning and the expulsion of all Palestinians from their land.

The Ethnic Cleansing and expulsion of the Palestinians continues today. War crimes by the Israeli's during the 47/48 and 1967 wars were covered up and hidden by the UN. War crimes and atrocities committed by the Israeli's today will probably be covered up by the US especially since Netanyahu has pleaded to Obama to do just that!

originally posted by: AnuTyr
a reply to: silvanus

No ISIS is a branch from Al-Qaeda.
It was the CIA opperatives that trained Al-Qaeda that spread radical islamist beliefs.

ISIS was a spawn of this outcome, Tho Not indirectly created by CIA. It was formed out of agents who had gone Rogue.

That's as much as i know from it anyways.
Non of them are controlled by CIA only through weapons embargos/Drug deals.

Basically they are being bought out by very rich gang leaders.
The CIA learned all their techniques and more from the Mob/Organized criminal families.
In order to build the foundation of a crime organization that would eventually fund itself. Which it is Right now. Seizing monetary assets and creating genocide and fear to establish dominance over the region.

Why do you think anti war protestors in Gaza were killed? Peace threatens money when it comes to Arms and Drugs sales.

And Gold and other valuables can be claimed. Acomplishing a desired goal funnels more funds into quarentined areas. And tunnels smuggle weapons and ammunitions/Rockets.

That's how they are able to continually barrage Israel is through these smuggling tunnels.
Anyways that's my oppinion on all this.
The Palastinians arn't just dealing with religious extremeists. They are dealing with religious extremists who are part of an organized crime organization.... Obviously as all they do is crime and the very pool of money they use was gained through crime and theft.

Why do you think ISIS is rolling around robbing banks? That's something gangs would do if they had the fire power to do it....

Makes sense, although I believe Mossad had a role to play with Al-Qaeda, Bin Laden was seen with Mossad agents (which iv'e seen photos of). The way ISIS is acting gvies away who is fueling this whole mess, the world banking cartel. bunch of gangster criminals.

originally posted by: WCmutant

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: elixz

But if a Gaza like threat was near Our borders then we would probably destroy them.

You mean destroy Mexico because of Drug Cartels?

After all, their shipments of drugs are destroying American lives. So yah, according to that logic we begin bombing Mexico population centers. Every time theres a whoops (destroyed hospital, church or school) we just claim that under it was a drug lab.

Seems like something the American government would say.

And you think that the Israeli government is any different than the American government? Hah!

Didn't say it was.

a reply to: cody599



Israel arrested almost a thousand palestinians while pretending three dead kids wete missing. Hamas likely didnt have anything to so with it (the killings, despite one of the arreated finally pointing the finger), they rearrested several freed palestinians, and a palestinian kid was burnes alive.

These arrests were intended to provoke hamas into "rocket" attacks (rocket is stretching it). Israel used the dead kids to provoke a reaction.

Its obvious you dont really understand Israel's continuing genocide, but if it gives you an idea a commin israrli colloquialism for bombing gaza every few years is "mowing the lawn."

We were asked by kurdish forces to help in iraq to prevent genocide. Honestly we should be sanctioning israel to prevent genocide there too, but half the country is fooled inyo supporting Israel.

a reply to: silvanus



Its been alleged that yhe isis leader was trained by mossad, etc.

Who knows for sure. He was in american custody but conveniently released.

originally posted by: cody599
Hi guys

One has to ask after the rhetoric on ATS of late regarding Gaza/Israel

Is it OK for the USA to attack ISIS with air strikes ?

Let's start this with a bit of a reality check...............................USA is under no direct threat of immediate missile attack from ISIS, no American city is likely to be hit by a missile in the foreseeable future, yet air strikes have been ordered and indeed the MSM is proudly showing said strikes taking out terrorists thousands of miles away from any real perceivable threat to either America or indeed Europe.

This is being applauded

Israel is under a sustained attack, a very real threat of death for it's citizens, has offered ceasefire upon ceasefire, extensions to ceasefires, and has been refused.

Israel in this current conflict has only ever reacted to attack. Yes the civilian loss of life is lamentable, but if Hamas choose to use human shields for propaganda what can you expect ?

My question is, why is OK for the USA to attack a perceived threat on the other side of the world, when it isn't OK for Israel to defend it's citizens from a very real terrorist organisation launching missiles at it ?

Just a thought

Cody

Hi Cody,
It is of my own opinion that this 'whatever it's supposed to be called' jews returning as upon god's will to return to said promised land, as talked about in scripture...

This isn't supposed to come about by way of any british mandate, (scriptural context); the jews were expelled by their brothers, Does it not sound logical that those people who live there 'pre-'47' should invite their lost brothers back?

And since not having been invited back, they retain the same mindset that merited their initial exile...

sorry if my opinion sux

a reply to: AnuTyr

Of course no gangs in ISRAEL are doing anything at all, but protecting everyone.

No chance at all that these tunnels could be helped along by the Jewish Mafia, and that ALOT of people LOVE keeping their own KIND, in fear.

Ever notice how easy it is to tell people that everyone hates them because GOD said so?

Makes it just as easy to see, how complete and total lunacy abounds in Jerusalem and pretty much every other town there.

Just a few years ago, Jerusalem was recognized as being one of the most Ungodly, hate filled, violence, murder, rape and every other crime that is supposed to be hallmarks of everywhere ELSE.

They have BOTH the JEWS and ARABS living inside of large open air prisons, it is just that one side does not realize it fully yet!

I can guarantee most of the people in this world need a lift up from the terrible ties of these INSANE religions, that were made perfectly and have run things SO WELL, that not one victory has been lost in thousands of years.

So perfectly orchestrated that the masses think the chaos is all part of Human Nature, and that the GODS will return to fix it.

They are not coming to fix ANYTHING, but to do a review and continue operations, A THOUSAND FOLD MORE COMPLEX.

Seeing is Believing, and the Jews and Christians need to realize that they are on the same side as the Arabs, the LOSING SIDE.

Really, when are people going to even TRY to see things from a farther back perspective, Oh wait, because it is all ABOVE TOP SECRET.

a reply to: cody599

As of yet, the US has not killed a civilian in their strikes. They are targeting artillery, large Isis units and weapons used for genocide.

Yes that sounds like the perfect pill to swallow and obey, obey, obey. How ever, Isis is very real and killing innocent people.

I'm okay with the US running to their aid if need be, Hell I'm happy to go knowing I could be caught, tortured and beheaded with a knife.

a reply to: cody599


Look you're missing the freakin point.

Not a single rational person contests that firing rockets into a populated city is an act of war. No one supports Hamas terorism.

What the Israeli supporting zealots don't seem to understand is basic morality.

The average person was totally in support of going into Gaza and killing HAMAS. HAMAS.

When the IDF started killing CIVILIANS by the dozens, and when the IDF REPEATEDLY had so called "accidental" strikes on schools, hospitals, UN refugee locations etc, thats when a very distinct red line was crossed in the minds of NORMAL people.

Extreme rightwing racist Zionist nutjobs don't seem to even have this red line in their brains. They are no different to the extremist Islamists who shout "death to America". They can't be bothered with inconvenient facts like how only 5% of Gazans support Hamas actions. It doesn't fit with their black/white simpleton ideology of [we=good, they=bad].

But most of the ruling class in Israel are hyper-nationalist Sociopaths. Incredibly ironic isn't it, considering the whole creation of a "Jewish state" was built after surving the murderous efforts of another group of hyper-Nationalist sociopaths??

The whole "God-given right to a Jewish state" aka "Zionism" movement has been around since the 1800's but really picked up momentum after WW1. I don't think it's a coincidence though that some of the worst sociopaths in Germany during WW2 were leading their fellow Jews into the gas chambers. They were known as "Sonderkommando"

en.wikipedia.org...

Sonderkommandos were work units of German Nazi death camp prisoners, composed almost entirely of Jews, who were forced, on threat of their own deaths, to aid with the disposal of gas chamber victims during The Holocaust

Such a level of evil is incomprehensible to me; murdering your own people, but I believe some of these sociopaths knew they were helping the Zionist cause by inflicting the worst pain on the Jewish people. There are Orthodox rabbi's who have said the same thing too.

Unfortunately such "leadership" has carried over into Israel also:
www.ynetnews.com...

originally posted by: elixz

How is drugs the same as rockets/missiles falling to Your country?

Well let's see..... Hamas rockets have killed 28 people since 2001. How many drug deaths have their been in the US since 2001?

The US is 40x the population of Israel, so 40x28=1120.

If there have been more than 1120 Cartel and Mexican drug related deaths since 2001 in the US, then, yes, it's a bigger danger to our country than rockets are to Israel.

According to Wikipedia, 511 Americans have been killed since 2006 in cartel warfare alone, not accounting for deaths from drug USE at all, and the overall Mexican drugwar death toll is over 106,000 !!

Read the inset on the right for a quick number reference:
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Israel arrested almost a thousand palestinians while pretending three dead kids wete missing. Hamas likely didnt have anything to so with it (the killings, despite one of the arreated finally pointing the finger), they rearrested several freed palestinians, and a palestinian kid was burnes alive.

These arrests were intended to provoke hamas into "rocket" attacks (rocket is stretching it). Israel used the dead kids to provoke a reaction.

The bodies of those teenagers were found 30th June
Source[/url ]

This article states that Israel had already taken over 40 rockets on 13th March, without responding.
[url=http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Two-rockets-from-Gaza-land-in-southern-Israel-345235]Source

Do you really believe Israel instigated this ?
It's obvious you don't check your facts before replying possibly the dead teenagers were the excuse to attack, but most certainly not the reason.

Cody

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: cody599

If you put any credibility into prophecy, Israel will be leveled eventually.. I'm not saying I want that to happen but both the Bible and the Qu'ran point to this outcome.

I'm afraid organised religion and I parted company many years ago.
I have no doubt that Israel will get flattened at some point in the future, the only questions really are when? And how ?

Cody

a reply to: loveguy

Hi Cody,
It is of my own opinion that this 'whatever it's supposed to be called' jews returning as upon god's will to return to said promised land, as talked about in scripture...

This isn't supposed to come about by way of any british mandate, (scriptural context); the jews were expelled by their brothers, Does it not sound logical that those people who live there 'pre-'47' should invite their lost brothers back?

And since not having been invited back, they retain the same mindset that merited their initial exile...

sorry if my opinion sux

No need to be sorry your opinion is as valid as anyone else.
It's very very hard to offend me and I welcome debate, sometimes I'm wrong and it gets pointed out, and learn from that. sometimes I think I'm right and people vehemently disagree with me. but personal experience tells the are wrong, I'm not going to change anyone's mind. I have no intention of doing so, just enjoying this diacussion

Cody