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originally posted by: FlySolo
originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Exitt I'm a Canadian and I would proudly stand in solidarity with Palestinians in Israel. But sadly, you would try to kill me for it.
WTF? I would try to kill you for it? Really?
I am not supporting either side. Both sides are fubar as far as I can see. My point is the kid wanted to start a commotion and draw attention to himself and the Che Gueverra shirt not only gives it away ,but also demonstrates a vast ignorance.
originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: FlySolo
Both sides have blood on their hands. On their feet, in their hair,they're bloody to their knees and elbows.
People all over the world have chosen a side and carry the fight from the sand to these very boards. There is no "right" side here, just more and more wrong.
originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Exitt The guy was talking pro palestinian in Israel surrounded by Israelis. Go to Harlem and talk anti black.
And when an Israeli police officer asks for your passport you present it, you are a guest in their country, or face arrest, prosecution, and probably a well earned whoopin.
Why do Americans so often think they can do whatever they want in other countries and that screaming "I'm an American citizen" gives them some kind of free pass?
Maybe the thread title should be " Young American spewing pro Palestine rhetoric in Israel refuses to show passport and is hauled off by Israeli police".
originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: FlySolo
Or Palestine.
But isn't this really Israel's civil war?
originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Pro Palestinian equals "anti- black" to you?
You are off it.
The true art of negotiations is to make the other person feel they have won something. There must always be a win/win for both parties. First, you need to ask "What do you want?" and "What am I prepared to give?"
I think we can easily hack through the BS and get right to the main points. Let this be a draft for a pseudo agreement.
Palestine:
- wants Israel to give up the Zionist entitlement to the entire region
- wants Israel to open the borders
- wants more territory
- wants to be recognized as a sovereign state and a right to self-determination
- wants peace
Israel:
- wants Palestine to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and accepts them to be the rightful *owners of the geographical area including the West Bank to rule without question and dominate for the rest of time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's really all Israel asks. Any other subsequent requests or addendum from Israel would only be a byproduct of Gaza's aggression. No tunnels, rocket attacks, etc.
So there's the framework, let's begin with that. Who's has the most to offer/lose? Are they equal? It seems, if I were to place both on a virtual scale, Israel's demand is quite a tall order. Clearly, she tips the scales and is in complete control of the negotiations table. She has to give something up.
So now, this is where things get complicated. Realistically, peace won't happen overnight. What needs to happen is, a 5-point stage of border definitions incremented on milestones. Israel gives up some land, Gaza behaves. Wash, rinse, repeat. But they can't do this alone, there must be a governing body to oversee the progress and enforce the rules. This is where I propose it gets hairy.
Israel must agree to a two-state solution. Gaza must agree to never ever ever fire an attack on Israel again. Something similar to how Germany and Japan relinquished their right to militarize for offensive purposes after ww2. Palestine gets promised a full member status on the UN after a predetermined amount of time provided there are 0 escalations. This should be incentive. If Israel does anything, all foreign aid immediately halts, all allies move to a neutral position and sanctions begin immediately. During completion of these milestones, an economic link needs to be established between the two states. Some mutual business framework is created to allow a co-dependency to happen. This is crucial. IE: Exclusive commercial fishing permits, silicon production, licensing agreements. There must be a viable economic plan for the future in order for this to sustain itself.
Then finally, after an x-amount of time, mediation will be withdrawn and both states can act like civil nations in the 21st century.
originally posted by: lakesidepark
a reply to: FlySolo
Is this guy an Israeli citizen??? Very important point, makes the perspective of what happened to him quite different.
If yes, then he had bad choice of place to protest.
But if he is not a citizen, then where does anyone think he has the right to speak out without invitation? Not his country.
He's an instigator at that point, round him up and deport as necessary.