Ebola Patient in Atlanta Hospital

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: 00nunya00
a reply to: kruphix

Did you have something constructive to add, or just self-aggrandizing snark? Keep it on topic. If you have some credible research to discredit this thread, please post it.

There is nothing to "discredit"...two patients have been brought for treatment...end of story. There is absolutely nothing else to the story at this point except people getting and spreading their daily dose of doom porn.

What I have constructive to add to this thread is hopefully a bit of common sense and sanity...and no more paranoid speculation.

Are you new here? This is what we...do.

I am new here, but I expected more.

well then I guess I probably won't be around for long.

Well then,

we can all finally agree on something.

Peace

a reply to: Destinyone

Granted, I am not an MD, just an educated layman (mainly because the hemorrhagic fevers scare the crap out of me so I've done a fair amount of extracurricular research) but I have never heard of a patient suffering of a severe virological infection showing marked improvement after only an hour.

I did not think anything could work that quickly on a systemic infection.

originally posted by: netwarrior
a reply to: NavyDoc

Fellowship at USAMRIID, huh? Glad to have you aboard the thread, Doc. What are your thoughts regarding the containment procedures we've seen them (the ones they've made public) taking thus far? For example, the shoddy appearance of their containment pod that was supposedly aboard the transport plane? I say supposedly, because to my knowledge there have been no images made public of the pod in situ. Other than their word, we have no idea if it was actually used or not. In my opinion, something plexiglas and stainless steel would have been a better idea than the pvc-and-shower-curtain-liner construction of the containment unit shown. Yes, the soft pod could be incinerated after single use, but a rigid pod would provide better isolation from the outside world.

Additionally, in your opinion was it the best thing to do to have Dr. Brantley walk out of the ambulance under his own power in a deflated suit with no visible air supply? Wouldn't a stretcher (ideally, a containment tent atop a stretcher) been a better idea?

The reason why I ask is that BSL-4 typically relies on multiple layers of protection and based on what has been made public I do not see this at all.

I honestly haven't seen those films.

In the military we have ridged plexiglass pods that are very similar to those you see in neonatal units with independent air supplies and filters. Given what you told me, I would agree that they were suboptimal.

a reply to: marg6043

Why would map biopharm offer it only to the two Americans. I'm sure any one, or all of the others that became I'll, and subsequently died, would have been willing to take it.

a reply to: loam
And let's not forget the chain of decision-making and the lack of responsibility and the attempted secrecy of who was involved. That story evolved too and that's been another one bothering me.

At first it was, "Oh they wanted to come home," so Samaritan's Purse hired a plane and got Emory to say they'd take them. Then the cast of characters grew, DoS issues a statement saying see CDC, CDC had nothing. Then the military lets them land at Dobbins. Then along comes the NIH yesterday, and now the FBI and Mapp. Just freaking weird.

a reply to: NavyDoc

We have some pictures starting around page 24-36 here in this thread as they were transporting him if you want to look.

a reply to: NavyDoc

That was my assumption as well, and that's exactly what I called them the first time I saw one. Big NICU incubators.

That's why I was so stunned at the shoddy construction of the pod that the public was shown.

originally posted by: netwarrior
a reply to: Destinyone

Granted, I am not an MD, just an educated layman (mainly because the hemorrhagic fevers scare the crap out of me so I've done a fair amount of extracurricular research) but I have never heard of a patient suffering of a severe virological infection showing marked improvement after only an hour.

I did not think anything could work that quickly on a systemic infection.

A serum containing antibodies would give immediate and marked improvement as all that is needed to combat the infection is contained therein. However, the problem is, that those defense mechanisms get "used up" and often repeated doses of the serum are needed to give a full recovery. Although he seemed to respond quite quickly and he is feeling better, he is not out of the woods just yet.

a reply to: NoAngel2u

That was a question I had too. As in why did they not offer to test on Africans if they had it? Hell who knows maybe they have been, and maybe without all the legality squared away or maybe the legality is a stumbling block. Could be a lot of reasons.

Quoting Lucidity "

I missed those posts here.

But after reading the CNN story, I felt like I had been transported to an alternate reality.

Four days ago they only had one dose, which is why he took the Ebola patient's blood.

These statements weren't just guessed. They're quotes attributed to Samaritans and the CDC. Now the story changes.
"""""""


Nobody in the world have that dose. How did a volunteer to a death zone had it? ??
He was sent there not by the duped poor Samaritan's Purse! But somebody else purse!! Rockefeller purse! !!
.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: loam
And let's not forget the chain of decision-making and the lack of responsibility and the attempted secrecy of who was involved. That story evolved too and that's been another one bothering me.

At first it was, "Oh they wanted to come home," so Samaritan's Purse hired a plane and got Emory to say they'd take them. Then the cast of characters grew, DoS issues a statement saying see CDC, CDC had nothing. Then the military lets them land at Dobbins. Then along comes the NIH yesterday, and now the FBI and Mapp. Just freaking weird.

I can't address the decision making process of Samaritan's Purse or the state department, just what we learned at USAMRIID.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: NoAngel2u

That was a question I had too. As in why did they not offer to test on Africans if they had it? Hell who knows maybe they have been, and maybe without all the legality squared away or maybe the legality is a stumbling block. Could be a lot of reasons.

I actually addressed this in one of the other threads. Ethically, do you use an untested (on humans anyway) serum that may not work and potentially be deadly (graft vs host disease) on a person without understanding or a volunteer with the medical knowledge to give fully informed consent on something that may kill him?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: loam
And let's not forget the chain of decision-making and the lack of responsibility and the attempted secrecy of who was involved. That story evolved too and that's been another one bothering me.

At first it was, "Oh they wanted to come home," so Samaritan's Purse hired a plane and got Emory to say they'd take them. Then the cast of characters grew, DoS issues a statement saying see CDC, CDC had nothing. Then the military lets them land at Dobbins. Then along comes the NIH yesterday, and now the FBI and Mapp. Just freaking weird.

Absolutely.

It makes me believe they're worried about outbreak/epidemic MUCH MORE than we've been led to believe.

They WANTED those patients here- presumably to get more hands working on the problem.

What else makes sense?

a reply to: netwarrior

This was supposedly the liner of the plane.


Then he walks out of the ambo.


Someone said there was no airscrubber on his suit (or on the person that was allegedly him.

Then the ambo driver.

Just a mask?

The wording they used was "An ambulance..." not "The ambulance...: too. And "a plane" not the plane.


And the path they took...well they could have touched down in more places if they tried harder.

And it still bugs me they used a Grady ambulance that probably transports hundreds of bleeding victims and not an Emory ambulance, which shouldn't a BSL-4 facility have a BSL-4 ambulance?

a reply to: NavyDoc

You can start here and then scroll back and forward a couple of pages.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I believe I read to where they are loosening the laws to allow people to try experimental treatments by their consent and decision (this as you know has been a long-running issue with our FDA), but I can't remember the entire context. It was a related article but a few days ago, in relation to only the "secret serum" that she took.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: netwarrior

This was supposedly the liner of the plane.

Then he walks out of the ambo.

Someone said there was no airscrubber on his suit (or on the person that was allegedly him.

Then the ambo driver.

Just a mask?

The wording they used was "An ambulance..." not "The ambulance...: too. And "a plane" not the plane.

And the path they took...well they could have touched down in more places if they tried harder.

And it still bugs me they used a Grady ambulance that probably transports hundreds of bleeding victims and not an Emory ambulance, which shouldn't a BSL-4 facility have a BSL-4 ambulance?

The ambu driver isn't really an issue as there is a partition/space between the driver and the passenger compartment so exposure to bodily fluids is unlikely.

The containment pods are, I agree flimsy. They could do for a temporary measure. But I have to agree that they are flimsy.

The suit he is in...I'm not sure by the photo how inflated it is. Given how those suits work, with intake of air supply and discharge through filters, you don't expect to see the Michelin man. Interesting, I agree, but not definite.

a reply to: netwarrior
I guess it sorta depends on if the kidney's and liver were involved yet and maybe how close the white blood cells were to exploding. Apparently that is late stage symptoms.

People, you need to read about this before you comment, he contracted it will working with a ministry helping with the Sierra Leone Ebola outbreak, he was flown on a medical jet, to the US, and has been in biosafety level 3 lock down since stepping off the plane. Level 3 biosafety lockdown basically is armed guards in a sealed bulletproof ambulance. We are relatively safe, besides, any major hospital has the capacity to deal with small ebola outbreaks, and if that doesn't work the CDC has contingency plans to lockdown an entire state if needed. Oh and in a U.S. intensive care unit, (aka: a hospital) survivability is bumped from 90% deathrate, to about 50%, that means he has a good chance at surviving.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Thanks. One suit had an air scrubber visible. The other, the one they're/we're speculating is him, didn't have one visible.