"Daring and lethal Palestinian raids from Gaza sap Israeli morale"

a reply to: buster2010


You haven't show me anything I didn't know. And really, they didn't hide their tanks and trucks in tunnels I promise.

I Think I've found evidence.

www.vocativ.com...

Video in link. NSFW

In the video, the militants attempt to capture an Israeli soldier, who can be heard calling out as the attackers grapple with him. Gunshots ring out and the voice then goes silent. The footage, in which the attack has been edited to a three-minute length, shows the militants fleeing the scene, heading back down into the tunnel, and finally cuts to masked men brandishing assault rifles with Hebrew text and Israeli markings.

The Jewish Daily reports that five soldiers were killed in the assault, bringing the total number of Israeli soldiers killed in the conflict to 53 at that time. The military tower attacked in the video is located here on Google Maps, but largely obscured. A linked Panoramio photo shows the tower in much sharper relief and matches the one in the video exactly. A piece from the Israeli news outlet Mako cites a military source, saying the video has been edited, but “is reliable.”

a reply to: MR_UNSMiLey

Efrati cited the cold-blood sniper shooting, caught on video, of Palestinian youth Salem Shamaly in Shujaiya on 20 July, as a likely example of this phenomenon.

If that video is a likely example, then Efrati is completely unreliable (that's my polite language). The video purports to show a Palestinian man shot by an IDF sniper. The sniper hits him in the hand???? What kind of sniper hits a guy in the hand?

We don't actually see him fall, but he is seen lying in some rubble. Just lying there. This sniper, who apparently couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel, hits him with two more rounds (supposedly). At the end of three sniper rounds and a fall into rubble, we observe a man showing no blood, no torn clothing, nothing resembling a wound of any sort.

In the last few seconds of the video, we are informed that it was edited by an international pro-Palestinian group.

In the source article we read both:

The attacks are feeding a sense in Israel that its ground assault on Gaza is turning into a disaster

With more than fifty soldiers dead, a price no one in Israel expected to pay for attacking Gaza, even the country’s top leaders appear weary.

and:

The attacks have yet to dent the support for the massacre among the Israeli Jewish public, 90 percent of whom still back the assault, according to a recent poll.

We know that Hamas would like to inflate the civilian death figures, but lets take them at the word (as foolish as that is).

While Palestinian civilians have been the main targets of Israeli attacks – the number of fatalities from Israel’s 23-day assault has now surpassed 1,200 persons, 80 percent of them civilians – Israel’s losses are overwhelmingly military.

With more than fifty soldiers dead, a price no one in Israel expected to pay for attacking Gaza, even the country’s top leaders appear weary.

90%? That doesn't sound very weary to me.

Run the numbers on the losses in Gaza. 240 military or terrorists killed to 50 Israelis. Two days ago Politico reported it was fewer than 50, and we know some of Israel's losses have been civilians. So Gaza has been losing soldiers at a 6-1 ratio to the Israelis. Those numbers don't show an incredible defeat for Israel.

The article talks about a "Thrashing" that IDF supposedly got:

In a revealing account of Israel’s 20 July attack on the Shujaiya neighborhood east of Gaza City, The Jerusalem Post revealed that the army’s elite Golani Brigade suffered a thrashing at the hands of well-prepared resistance fighters who launched a “massive attack.”

“The Golani Brigade in [Shujaiya] sustained heavy casualties,” the newspaper reported citing an army source, “after Hamas intelligence units mapped out its location.”

Fearing they “would be getting 600 body bags back” containing dead Israeli soldiers, commanders withdrew the Israeli infantry and simply shelled Shujaiya, causing mass destruction and the deaths of dozens of civilians.

Too bad there wasn't any thrashing. If you go to the source article you'll see that the Hamas brigade of 800-900 soldiers came up out of tunnels to attack the IDF force. The soldiers were ordered into their armored personnel carriers on site. The Israelis started shelling (their carriers can withstand that) and after 20 minutes there was not even a noise from the Hamas brigade.

How many deceased Hamas Brigade members were reported as "civilians?"

I can't see how anyone would accept the article as true, or even worth reading.

a reply to: surfinguru

The war economy is oiled by the blood of people, innocent or not. Cui bono?

a reply to: charles1952

Look, I'm not condoning or condemning anything in the article, but it's something I felt should've been posted. To me, at the end of the day, I want peace. We're all gonna die someday, I would prefer it not be the way how it's going on over there

a reply to: howmuch4another

Just having a bad 2 months

a reply to: buster2010

Buster th etunnels helped to counter. It didnt say DEFEAT though did it? They ended up in stalemate until the north pulled a feint on Tet and the american president at the time fell for it. Vietnam was a political win alone because in th efinal days of vietnam there were 50 advisors there. According to N vietnamese generals they had them but the political will was gone so the North won by default when th e troops left due to that but not due to military loss.

a reply to: MR_UNSMiLey

Dear MR_UNSMiLey,

I agree with you. I want peace, too.

You felt that the article was something that should be posted. OK. Why?

Now, I'm just trying to understand. Does this article offer a way to peace? Does it teach us something we need to know? I agree that you felt a need to post it, I'm just not sure what good can come from it. I'm hoping you can tell me.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: MR_UNSMiLey

Efrati cited the cold-blood sniper shooting, caught on video, of Palestinian youth Salem Shamaly in Shujaiya on 20 July, as a likely example of this phenomenon.

If that video is a likely example, then Efrati is completely unreliable (that's my polite language). The video purports to show a Palestinian man shot by an IDF sniper. The sniper hits him in the hand???? What kind of sniper hits a guy in the hand?

We don't actually see him fall, but he is seen lying in some rubble. Just lying there. This sniper, who apparently couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel, hits him with two more rounds (supposedly). At the end of three sniper rounds and a fall into rubble, we observe a man showing no blood, no torn clothing, nothing resembling a wound of any sort.

In the last few seconds of the video, we are informed that it was edited by an international pro-Palestinian group.

In the source article we read both:

The attacks are feeding a sense in Israel that its ground assault on Gaza is turning into a disaster

With more than fifty soldiers dead, a price no one in Israel expected to pay for attacking Gaza, even the country’s top leaders appear weary.

and:

The attacks have yet to dent the support for the massacre among the Israeli Jewish public, 90 percent of whom still back the assault, according to a recent poll.

We know that Hamas would like to inflate the civilian death figures, but lets take them at the word (as foolish as that is).

While Palestinian civilians have been the main targets of Israeli attacks – the number of fatalities from Israel’s 23-day assault has now surpassed 1,200 persons, 80 percent of them civilians – Israel’s losses are overwhelmingly military.

With more than fifty soldiers dead, a price no one in Israel expected to pay for attacking Gaza, even the country’s top leaders appear weary.

90%? That doesn't sound very weary to me.

Run the numbers on the losses in Gaza. 240 military or terrorists killed to 50 Israelis. Two days ago Politico reported it was fewer than 50, and we know some of Israel's losses have been civilians. So Gaza has been losing soldiers at a 6-1 ratio to the Israelis. Those numbers don't show an incredible defeat for Israel.

The article talks about a "Thrashing" that IDF supposedly got:

In a revealing account of Israel’s 20 July attack on the Shujaiya neighborhood east of Gaza City, The Jerusalem Post revealed that the army’s elite Golani Brigade suffered a thrashing at the hands of well-prepared resistance fighters who launched a “massive attack.”

“The Golani Brigade in [Shujaiya] sustained heavy casualties,” the newspaper reported citing an army source, “after Hamas intelligence units mapped out its location.”

Fearing they “would be getting 600 body bags back” containing dead Israeli soldiers, commanders withdrew the Israeli infantry and simply shelled Shujaiya, causing mass destruction and the deaths of dozens of civilians.

Too bad there wasn't any thrashing. If you go to the source article you'll see that the Hamas brigade of 800-900 soldiers came up out of tunnels to attack the IDF force. The soldiers were ordered into their armored personnel carriers on site. The Israelis started shelling (their carriers can withstand that) and after 20 minutes there was not even a noise from the Hamas brigade.

How many deceased Hamas Brigade members were reported as "civilians?"

I can't see how anyone would accept the article as true, or even worth reading.

Ya, 900 dead qasam brigade solders is 899 civilians in hamas speak.

a reply to: MR_UNSMiLey



there is a video of this raid on the internet if you like gore, iv seen it and i will say the raiders has a serious set of brass on them.

its sad it has come to tit for tat killings, but at least one side takes it out on military targerts

a reply to: Logarock

The Vietnamese won the war with "peace talks".

a reply to: bbracken677

i dont know the rules on posting videos but if anyone wants to see it let me know, it looks like they had some go-pros.

originally posted by: surfinguru
a reply to: MR_UNSMiLey

But the most dramatic incident was a commando raid in which seven Qassam fighters emerged from a tunnel, raided a fortified Israeli army outpost at Nahal Oz inside Israel, killed five soldiers according to the Israeli count, and returned safely to Gaza through the tunnel. Qassam said its fighters killed ten Israeli combatants in the attack.

So Israel is saying five down, and the Qassam fighters are saying ten down. Soooooo much propaganda surrounding the whole affair.

So probably 7 and a half then. Er, 7 killed one wounded? 7 or 8? Who knows?

a reply to: penroc3

Is it the same video posted above that has been edited down to a 3 minute clip? I don't know if you can post the video but i think you can post the search terms needed to find it. for example "Hamas raid" or whatever. Might be best to ask a mod cause you might even be allowed to link to it as long as you don't embed it...
the person above linked to "it"...

a reply to: 3n19m470

No its about 8 mins long. i will ask right now.