Origin of Creationism

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Everyone has a bias. When you are looking, you are motivated to look. Your motivation will determine your perspective.

There is a difference between starting with the premise that Christianity is true and making the evidence fit your predetermined conclusion and starting with a bias that you don't know anything and looking for evidence to develop a conclusion.

No amount of good works can save a soul. Christianity is the only religion that recognizes this. We are supposed to do good anyways. It does not negate the evil.

Well... That reads as something that would turn me AWAY from Christianity as a valid religion not turn me towards it. Condemn everyone unless they worship your god regardless of deeds performed. I think I'd rather follow the Satanic Temple then that tripe.

By the way, everything you've said so far is crap from the bible. Where is the EVIDENCE that any of it is true? Like I said, the Bible is just a collection of testimonials. If you want to prove a testimonial is true, you have to produce the evidence to support it. So get cracking. Let's see the evidence that shows that Christianity is the only valid religion.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, it would appear that you, while knowing nothing, started off with the premise that Christianity is false - because you just admitted that you hate the very foundation of our Faith.

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Did I? How did I do that?

Still waiting for that evidence by the way.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Did I? How did I do that?

Still waiting for that evidence by the way.

No amount of good works can save a soul. Christianity is the only religion that recognizes this. We are supposed to do good anyways. It does not negate the evil.

Well... That reads as something that would turn me AWAY from Christianity as a valid religion not turn me towards it. Condemn everyone unless they worship your god regardless of deeds performed. I think I'd rather follow the Satanic Temple then that tripe.

Evidence is everywhere. If you want proof, it can only come from God. That is how he designed this life.

That clock is still handing you hours.

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Hmmm... So your evidence is to preach the same crap I heard for the first 15 years of my life when my parents dragged me to Catholic mass? *Sigh...* I thought maybe I actually found that missing evidence that would prove once and for all that Christianity is true. Guess not. So I'm going to go ahead and say that you are wrong and that Christianity isn't the valid conclusion one would come to after looking at all the other religions.

By the way, I was looking for comparisons to other religions that show that Christianity is true versus how other religions are false. All you gave me was a sermon. If I wanted to listen to lies, I'd turn on CSPAN.

ETA: I'm pretty sure you didn't click on that link to the Satanic Temple and just judged the link by the name alone. Which says worlds about your preconceived notions towards other religions as well as validating my opinion that you are wrong. Though, honestly, I was testing you with that link and you failed.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Call no man Father

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Everyone has a bias. When you are looking, you are motivated to look. Your motivation will determine your perspective.

There is a difference between starting with the premise that Christianity is true and making the evidence fit your predetermined conclusion and starting with a bias that you don't know anything and looking for evidence to develop a conclusion.

There is a difference between starting with the premise that TIME is true and making the evidence fit your predetermined conclusion and starting with a bias that you don't know anything and looking for evidence to develop a conclusion.

You might find this link interesting - it shows how virtual particles are created in a vacuum - except they are not really 'created' as they appear and disappear.

The experiment is based on one of the most counterintuitive, yet, one of the most important principles in quantum mechanics: that vacuum is by no means empty nothingness. In fact, the vacuum is full of various particles that are continuously fluctuating in and out of existence. They appear, exist for a brief moment and then disappear again. Since their existence is so fleeting, they are usually referred to as virtual particles.

phys.org...

Just consider that reality could be a vacuum with virtual particles appearing and disappearing - that which is seen is constantly appearing different - in the one space.
The one space (vacuum) has always existed like you suggested earlier in the thread, but it continually appears different.

Try looking at it this way - that one space is the nothing out of which/in which all appears and disappears presently.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, it would appear that you, while knowing nothing, started off with the premise that Christianity is false - because you just admitted that you hate the very foundation of our Faith.

But there is very little evidence for the bible. It's a book of poorly remembered folk tales and bronze to iron age myths.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, it would appear that you, while knowing nothing, started off with the premise that Christianity is false - because you just admitted that you hate the very foundation of our Faith.

But there is very little evidence for the bible. It's a book of poorly remembered folk tales and bronze to iron age myths.

It all depends on how it is read. The bible is not really talking about along time ago - the bible is talking about 'the presence' of God. But it speaks in metaphors.

There is only the 'present'.

The 'present' is God. There is nothing 'other' than God. This 'present' contains all that is and all that is not.

The general assumption is that 'God' is a person and 'Christ' is a person and that these people have control and it is not liked by the seeming many. But God is not a person - God is this that is. But there is a fantasy that there is more - it a dream of separation.
God is the all seeing, all knowing aspect of the present (moment) and Christ is the appearing image of light. God is the source (father) because without the seeing of the light no image could appear. God is the AWARE presence which is constantly the same and Christ is the light image (sun/son) which constantly appears different but is ever present as well.
The present has a still aspect and a moving aspect - it is all there is - there is nothing is separate from it.

If one worships 'what is not' - if one wants other than there is then one is suffering from the delusions of mind. If one sees and hears 'what is' then one is at peace. It is said in the bible about 'If one has eyes to see and ears to hear....'. Jesus also tried his best to get the 'blind to see and the deaf to hear'.
There is what there is- right here and right now is what you have - nothing other ever exists.
But the mind has 'other ideas'.
These 'other ideas' tempt one out of 'the ever present presence' (but one never actually leaves presence) - and the delusions of mind make one feel lacking. It is said in the bible that 'Satan was expelled from God's presence'.
When seeing and hearing one is seeing the glory of God - but when goes to the mind to see the past or future - it is delusion of mind.

Everything there is, is here now - it is the present.
Realizing this one can be full of what is instead of feeling empty of what isn't.

This is why God says 'Worship no other' - because there is in fact, no other.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
If one worships 'what is not' - if one wants other than there is then one is suffering from the delusions of mind. If one sees and hears 'what is' then one is at peace. it is said in the bible about 'If one has eyes to see and ears to hear....'. Jesus also tried his best to get the 'blind to see and the deaf to hear'.
There is what there is- right here and right now is what you have - nothing other ever exists.
But the mind has 'other ideas'.
These 'other ideas' tempt one out of 'the ever present presence' (but one never actually leaves presence) - and the delusions of mind make one feel lacking. it is said in the bible that 'Satan was expelled from God's presence'.
When seeing and hearing one is seeing the glory of God - but when goes to the mind to see the past or future - it is delusion of mind.

Everything there is, is here now - it is the present.
Realizing this one can be full of what is instead of feeling empty of what isn't.

This is why God says 'Worship no other' - because there is in fact, no other.

You really are pushing the who 'present' idea.... So because im very intregued, what happends to someone who is brain dead and kept on lifesupport? The family members 'feel time pass' after day-in day-out of hospital visits yet because this person has no functioning mind to work with. What happens to them in the present?

In fact I think I accedently found that scenario to be the best closeness to what you describe as this 'present theory' yet it only affects that person. Only that body is in a state of 'present'. Just like amnesia or even dementia, conditions to the brain that can cause memory loss and therefore no knowlege of time or its existance.

I worked as a carer and sat with a patient once a week for 2 years for her Husband to come home after getting milk. He got run over in the 1930s Yet every day she is in the 'present' every day she waits for him to come home.

Now I have actually given you some evidence of what I beleive is your 'present theory'
But you are suggesting that we all have delusions of thinking we have a past and a future and that there is time. As that what we see/hear/feel is all made up.

What about all the people where they are in a seperate bubble from the rest. Like my patient, she never knew a mobile phone exsisted, we had strict rules to never bring anything (including clothing) that looked out of place from the 1930s otherwise shed go into a state of shock. She is a perfect example of 'constant present' yet Every other person that cared for her and watched time go by, and now right now I am explaining an event that took place in TIME.

How can I still be in the present to be able to discuss a present situation a few years ago regarding a patient that was in a 'static memory event' leaving her in the present of the 1930s only for the rest of the world to continue in thier present moments all differening from one another. Now my mind is slightly worse for wear......Tea Time methinks!

a reply to: Maltese5Rhino
All appearing bodies are in the state of 'present'. The present just continually appears different. Bodies appear to move within the one present image - thoughts appear to move in the one image. All that appears to move but what is seeing the movement?

What in your experience is seeing and knowing that this present experience is happening?

a reply to: Maltese5Rhino

But you are suggesting that we all have delusions of thinking we have a past and a future and that there is time. As that what we see/hear/feel is all made up.

What you see and hear and feel is not made up. Seeing, hearing, and feeling are actually happening.
Is the past happening? Is the future happening?
The only 'place' past and future can appear to happen is in thought .
Thought does happen but it is thought which is happening - it is not the past or future happening.

All thoughts about things in time happen now. Where is time?

An imaginary world has been created outside presence but it is also within presence because nothing can appear to exist outside presence - presence is dreaming that it can escape itself and in doing so it seems to have separated itself and when it looks out through the mind (the veil) it creates the illusion of space and time so it has somewhere to put the things that are not. God has then created time and space (and all things) out of nothing and he then has somewhere to play hide and seek.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Still not getting you on this one sorry.

So mug of Tea on my desk at work
I knock mug over and it breaks and makes a mess
Cleaner comes helps me clean and throw away that mug

Now I am at the same exact scenario I was but now without my mug of tea? How did an action that was caused by myself and corrected by myself with help from Cleaner not go through a 'timed phase' The CCTV camera that saw the whole thing would have the exact frame of shot where I knocked the Mug, that instant.

So how can one instant be present when another present needs to overlap and the previous present becomes discarded?
Isnt that what time is?

By what your saying my mug was on my table one moment now in many peices amongst papertowels in a bin and all that happend in the 'present' or same time? Or are you going on the whole Matrix side of 'There was no mug'?

a reply to: Maltese5Rhino
Movement appears to be happening.
Look at a watch with a second hand on it - see it is moving. Can you ever say it is not now? The movement is happening now.
Time is an imaginary place where the mind puts things that are not here.

Where is the past? Have you actually experienced 'past'? Nothing can be experienced outside the present. The observer and observed are one - never apart.

Again I ask anyone who is not present to prove me wrong by speaking up now!!!

The mug was a mug and now is not a mug - things appear and disappear - that which makes up the mug is still here but it appears to be different now. Things are always appearing to change but that which sees the change stays the same.

The present is like the surface of the ocean moving and changing but never being anything but the ocean.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I think I finally got where your coming from, Sorry for the pun but it did take me some time

I understand that the present is constant. That the mind does give us the impression of time.

That when we do think of a certain point in history we are virtually creating time.

So back on the topic of this Thread with creationism. If time itself is a creation from our minds. Thefore so is God as well as Evolution in that sense.

If we are using an illusion to follow fom text that was written in the 'past' or using fossils to determin evolutionary lineage from creatures of the 'past' Then it is all null and void. Whats the point basically?

I still find that illusions or not we understand things that happen outside of our field of view.

Many animals including Humans up to a certian age are not capable of comprehending the idea that once an object leaves are field of view that the object will have a different journey/avent happen and therefore cannot plan/progress.

We need this illusion if indeed it is, as how I see it. I wouldnt have been able to discus and learn from you if it werent for what I have done in the past. Learning to speak/write etc which didnt happen instantly. It took time and I know these are just words at the end of the day. But these words could not have all been taught to me in the present. If I did not have the illusion of time I would not remember the words.

We associate words with memory of events from what we have seen in the past. A good yet not really a word is Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious - Most people would have pretty much the same image in mind from a point in time, each person at a different time hearing that word for the first time.

Yes I agree with you we are all in the present and that there is no real past.... But then again we Humans invent, create and imagine and I now see our past (illusion from the mind) is no different than the machines that drive us to the future.

How I see it, We created time and therefore time exsists.

a reply to: Maltese5Rhino
Words appear, they are not learned - learned does imply time. There is not a store cupboard full of words - words just happen. Words, like all things appear out of nothing and are in fact nothing. Without words appearing it would be more obvious that there is nothing separate - words seem to describe something when really there is everything at once - so is not a thing because there is no 'other' thing. It is the belief in the story the words tell presently which can lead one to thinking one lives in time or is moving along time - when really movement happens in you as you. And you, if you notice, never go anywhere. You are always right here witnessing the changing appearance.

Nothing is appearing to happen.

We are the stuff that dreams are made on. William Shakespeare.

Where do dreams appear? Is a dream made of anything other than what is here now?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yep I have now concluded that you sir, may have lost some marbles.

Its all a bit too much wax on, wax off stuff going on here and you seem to be countering yourself.

Appear, Dissapear. Nothing, Everything. All is one and nothing is one type of thinking which is very ying/yang which I can apreciate and I understand where you are coming from.

But for you to say words appear and that in essence all knowlegde is at once, not learned.

Which I cannot abide by, everything is nothing then in your book and why even bother on ATS?
I came here to learn and it does not come at once nor just appear. Even when I click on a thread it grows and more and more people add to the information, I have to re read to make sure that information is nestled in my head. My Illusion filed mind which is like everyother person and frankly if we all believed we were in a state of illusion......There would be no point in anything.

I aggreed with you to a point but now I am affraid I can no longer, at least on this subject.

a reply to: Maltese5Rhino
In this moment there is an appearance.
What is seeing the appearance??

What we are are looking for what is looking. Francis Assisi

That which is seeing never appears so is nothing - but everything appears in it as it.

This that is happening presently is all there is - it is everything but it is not a thing (so is nothing).