Origin of Creationism

a reply to: GetHyped

Please cite the paper where fruit flies have been turned into anything but a fruit fly

As far as ive seen even after something like 600 generations

Its still a fruit fly

a reply to: Another_Nut

Here you go: www.jstor.org...

Now let's see how you move the goalposts to claim that it's not "real" speciation.

Once upon a time a small child, looked up upon the stars with wonder, turned to her father with the same wonder in her eyes and asked, "Where did we come from?" and with equal wonder the rest of the tribe looked as well, each wanting the answer to this great mystery, and there first creation myth was told by the father. This repeated time again, in various tribes throughout the world. Eventually tribes traded stories, and over time some stories blended together, big more encompassing stories were told shared by many.

I thought christian hill billys made up or changed to to modern day creationism. But who knows I might be worng, we might all be wrong...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: randyvs

Unless the universe always existed and just changes state every so often. Then it was never created at all.

This has to be the funniest argument i have ever heard. "The universe always existed." Some people are just dead set on denying God to the point of hilarity.

Not to be a buzz killer, but saying the universe was created by God who always existed is saying the exact same thing.

In the end, anyone who honestly says they know for a fact what happened is full of puppy poo or delusional.

It's called faith for a reason. If you knew, you wouldn't need faith.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Not to be a buzz killer, but saying the universe was created by God who always existed is saying the exact same thing.

In the end, anyone who honestly says they know for a fact what happened is full of puppy poo or delusional.

It's called faith for a reason. If you knew, you wouldn't need faith.

1. No it is not. God created the universe - and time itself. The universe is obviously limited by time. God is not. Even in a multi-verse endless loop scenario - someone had to create the loop.

2. If someone knows for a fact that God is true and Jesus is His son, like I do, and they have proof from God - you can not call them delusional because you have not seen and heard what they have.

3. Faith is defined as trust. I have Faith in God. I trust God. It does not mean I am believing something I have no proof of. However, before I saw - I believed.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: Another_Nut

Here you go: www.jstor.org...

Now let's see how you move the goalposts to claim that it's not "real" speciation.

ill do u one better instead of a 1988 paper ill direct u here


evolution.berkeley.edu...

Where u can learn about evolution

Then here evolutionwiki.org...

And direct yiur attention to number three

Se we dont know because the experiments have not been done

Making a new insect was never a goal

And we still have fruit flies

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon

originally posted by: Puppylove
Not to be a buzz killer, but saying the universe was created by God who always existed is saying the exact same thing.

In the end, anyone who honestly says they know for a fact what happened is full of puppy poo or delusional.

It's called faith for a reason. If you knew, you wouldn't need faith.

1. No it is not. God created the universe - and time itself. The universe is obviously limited by time. God is not. Even in a multi-verse endless loop scenario - someone had to create the loop.

2. If someone knows for a fact that God is true and Jesus is His son, like I do, and they have proof from God - you can not call them delusional because you have not seen and heard what they have.

3. Faith is defined as trust. I have Faith in God. I trust God. It does not mean I am believing something I have no proof of. However, before I saw - I believed.

lol I'm soooooooo not getting into this debate with you. It really is the same thing. Whether you add or don't add a creator we need to accept something from nothing, or something has always existed.

And just because one believes something with all the fiber of their being does not make it true. Sadly we are human, our hearts and senses are faulty. If you trust your senses, or the senses of others 100% period, no room for doubt. Then yes I'd say by definition one must be delusional.

But as I said not debating this, could go on forever and get really, really antagonistic and I just have no desire to get in yet another fight over this.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Are you simple?? It's speciation. That's like saying "humans evolved from homo erectus but they're still apes!! Therefore evolution is wrong".

a reply to: Puppylove

I never said "God always existed." God created existence. God created time. He is not limited by it. The universe is. It is simply not the same thing, no matter how bad u want it to be.

God is merciful but time is short. Seek the truth.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Puppylove

I never said "God always existed." God created existence. God created time. He is not limited by it. The universe is. It is simply not the same thing, no matter how bad u want it to be.

God is merciful but time is short. Seek the truth.

A merciful God does not create ultimatums.

originally posted by: Puppylove

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Puppylove

I never said "God always existed." God created existence. God created time. He is not limited by it. The universe is. It is simply not the same thing, no matter how bad u want it to be.

God is merciful but time is short. Seek the truth.

A merciful God does not create ultimatums.

Well, at least you stopped with the "saying the universe always existed is the same logic as believing in God." That was a really funny argument.

It is your decision to be blinded by your pride and worldly thought if it is your decision to not seek God. God will never act outside of perfect justice and righteousness. Ultimatum? God had one. Let us all perish or send His Son to die for us. See, naturally, we all know perfect justice will always be done. God ingrains that in us. There are things you do not understand about accepting his Son, and why this will fulfill REALITY'S basic requirement of perfect justice. This reality was created by a perfectly just God. So, according to you, he should not have given us an ultimatum - he should have just let us all fry after the world fell.

You are looking for reasons to deny God. I get it. What I am saying is: you should start looking for reasons to accept God. I can refute every reason you conjure up to deny God, but the truth is if you want to deny Him - you will.

I hope you figure it out before it's too late. God blinds some people for their extreme wickedness. Contrary to popular folk lore, God does not love everyone. He hates some people with a passion.

Peace in Christ

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

I humbly accept that I do not have all the answers. I cannot both do this, AND choose to believe something one hundred percent. I can either be humble, or as you call it, prideful and arrogant.

Only by accepting I cannot know the truth with complete certainty can true humility be acquired.

I am not prideful, for ultimately I do not even trust my own perceptions with complete faith. I ask only of others that they try and accept that just because they believe something does not make it true.

If all people could acknowledge that one simple thing, the world would be a far more peaceful place.

I don't ask that you don't believe in God, only that you acknowledge that as a lowly and humble, imperfect human being, that belief and fact are not the same thing.

a reply to: Puppylove

Your display of humility is fake. You already said:

A merciful God does not create ultimatums.

Not very humble of you to claim to know what a merciful God does or does not do in a reality you claim to not understand.

God has left you able to seek the truth. It is your opinion that God left you with no way to find it, but the ability to seek it. It is your opinion that God has abandoned you with no correct path other than that of worldly pride, fake humility (as you have proven), and willful ignorance.

Your opinion of God is very low.

My merciful God said that if you seek the truth you will find it. Yes. YOU. If YOU seek the truth - YOU will find the truth. If you study every religion with a truly humble heart, you will end up at the only valid conclusion. No amount of good works can save someone from the evil they have committed.





It is your worldly pride that tells you that you are being humble by stating that there is no tangible truth about God to be found in this world. Ironically enough, you do not believe it yourself. The truth of our situation is ingrained in us. It is up to you to seek the truth of God, ending up at His Son - and eternal salvation.

You do have an enemy trying to stop you, and that enemy is not your flesh nor is it other men.

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

My statement about merciful gods and ultimatums was do to it being a logical inconsistency.

One cannot be both merciful and condemn people to an eternity of torment.

Anyone who claims to know that they are right, and all others are wrong, is by definition arrogant and prideful, for they are unwilling to accept their own imperfection. If God and Jesus, are perfect, and no human can be, than to claim a true and perfect certainty is to claim oneself as equivalent to God himself.

But you're a hellfire and brimstone Christian, there's no point arguing with you.

Besides, you do more to turn people from your God than anything any atheist or agnostic can possibly say or do, so there's no real point.

In the end there is one factual and true reality, and whatever it is, exists regardless of anything, you, I, or anyone else believes, no matter how strongly we may believe it or wish it so.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
You are looking for reasons to deny God. I get it. What I am saying is: you should start looking for reasons to accept God. I can refute every reason you conjure up to deny God, but the truth is if you want to deny Him - you will.

Someone else put it this way:

originally posted by: MagicWand67
If you don't see it. It doesn't mean it isn't there. If you want the proof you will need to seek the truth and find it for yourself. No one can convince you of something you are in denial about. You must learn the truth on your own. It seems clear to me that your agenda is not to seek the truth. Instead you seek to support your existing belief system and to deny what you do not want to be real. You are still just following orders like a good soldier. Whether you realize it or not.

Another good Propaganda video:

@6:35 min: "You really learn how to be aware of the fact that sometimes you just frontin, frontin on yourself, you lying to you and ahhhh, you the only one losin in this, you know what I'm sayin..."

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

My statement about merciful gods and ultimatums was do to it being a logical inconsistency.

One cannot be both merciful and condemn people to an eternity of torment.

So you define reality, mercy, what deserves condemnation, perfect justice, righteousness, and logic. But you are humble? And claim no one can know the truth about God......

Anyone who claims to know that they are right, and all others are wrong, is by definition arrogant and prideful, for they are unwilling to accept their own imperfection. If God and Jesus, are perfect, and no human can be, than to claim a true and perfect certainty is to claim oneself as equivalent to God himself.

But you're a hellfire and brimstone Christian, there's no point arguing with you.

We just went over this. I am not a "Hellfire and Brimstone" Christian. That type of Christian does not exist, because no Christian creates Hellfire. I have spoken to you about God's mercy. His judgments will speak for themselves.

Besides, you do more to turn people from your God than anything any atheist or agnostic can possibly say or do, so there's no real point.

I am not a worldly person trying to persuade you. If you choose to deny the truth, it is your choice. We were condemned for believing a lie when God told us the truth. We were condemned for being disloyal to God. If you are okay with being condemned, not looking for the truth, and assuming that a perfect God can not let his children know the Truth - you are okay with that. It is false, but it is your belief and you are free to cling to it.

In the end there is one factual and true reality, and whatever it is, exists regardless of anything, you, I, or anyone else believes, no matter how strongly we may believe it or wish it so.

I constantly tell people to stop trusting their perceptions in this world of deception, and that truth is objective. It is good that you recognize that there is a truth, because many are not blessed to know that among all of the deceptions we are subjected to in this modern world. It is now up to you to actually look for the truth. I can not look for the truth for you - you have to do it. But first, you will have to humble yourself. Pride will blind you - and pride is something you are full of, to the point of claiming to know what a merciful God would do in this situation we see in this world.

Just remember - there IS a Truth. God has left you able to seek it. Has he left you unable to find it? No, he has not, because he is merciful. Merciful enough, in fact, to send His only Son to die for you. Obviously, if you can find it, others have already found it. Otherwise, believe that God has abandoned you - if you choose to deny reality it is your choice.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Yup

Hey do you know how I put that "~" thing at the top of my posts to prevent other posters from putting little green stars over my posts?

You in a nutshell: "You're welcome to believe as you do, but you are wrong and what I believe is right."

Me in a nutshell: "You're welcome to believe as you do, but it's possibly wrong, I don't claim to know the absolute truth and will not make such a claim."

I know how I define the word merciful, however. Words have different meanings to different people and multiple definitions. Sadly ultimately, language subjectivity causes more arguments than anything else. Two people can argue forever simply because they are both working under different conceptualization of a words meaning and it's use.

Could this God be using a different definition than I? Absofrigganlutely. If he exists, and he does define it differently, and he damns me to hell, that's his prerogative and not like I'll be able to stop him. Won't really change that I while being tormented for eternity will likely not see his side of things. May start saying so anyway, I mean, anyone with enough torture will say anything to get their tormenter to stop.

I do know that I cannot make the logical leap between the disconnect I feel between what I feel merciful means, and eternal damnation. Is not something I can ever make. Is too abhorrent to me. The very concept that any being can both torment someone for eternity and be considered merciful is just not something I can believe in. It's just way too much, way too far.

As for God telling me anything, when, where, how do you know what God has or has not done with me personally?

If you mean the bible, no God has not told me anything in that book was true. A bunch of people who were likewise told by a bunch of people, who were... this goes on for awhile... told me it was the word of God.