What Happened to the Sunken City of Cuba?

a reply to: Harte

Thank's Harte I will accept that as fact, still they made a great disaster film (the day after or something) based on the idea of super fast freezing so maybe the idea should stay in hollywood, I did not think you or Hanslune would reply again with me being on the looney fringe and all but thank's.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Thank's Harte I will accept that as fact, still they made a great disaster film (the day after or something) based on the idea of super fast freezing so maybe the idea should stay in hollywood, I did not think you or Hanslune would reply again with me being on the looney fringe and all but thank's.

Hey, man, at least you're willing to listen and read.

Personally, I have high hopes for you.

Can't say the same for many others around here.

Harte

a reply to: LABTECH767

You write well and good speculation is always a pleasure to read.

a reply to: 727Sky

I cant remember where i read that this was roughly the location of Atlantis

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: 727Sky

I cant remember where i read that this was roughly the location of Atlantis

Atlantis has been 'found' in many, many places, the claims are rather extensive and detailed as to where it might be/have been.......

Considering it's a story the finding of its location is rather amusing. Kinda like finding where Nato'wa was or Middle Earth.

a reply to: Hanslune

I too do not take the litteral Atlantis very seriously but do believe as you know that there may be any number of site's lost, here is an Entertaining short video that is more an advert for some guy's idea about atlantis, needless to say I think he is wrong but I also think that the site he references was once as low as sea level at some point, it may be long before the city was built but I do believe violent uplift is what destroyed the city in the first place before looters got there much later and continental tilting may have occurred, perhaps even played a major part in that scenario, still it is worth looking at if only for the 200 foot wide possible canal (Though it may also have served ceremonial function), I think this is the most implausible place but then the egyptian's beleived the sky was the underworld.





Now as I say I personally do not believe it could be atlantis, or the antarctic, or indeed the caribean but if I was searching for such and believed in it I would look to the canary island's.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I believe we'll find several more small but 'advanced*' cultures in the outer edges of the fertile crescent and perhaps within its upper arch among the thousands of un-excavated mounds that still exist in that area. I would say that another area of interest would be the Zagros Mountains.

**In the sense of Catalhuyuck, Nevali Cori and GT

a reply to: Hanslune

I actually think that the adjacent area of southern and central Europe as well as the eurasian steplands is largely and unfairly overlooked, perhaps the constant settlement and movement of people makes it too much of an undefinable mess to fully understand what lies in it's past.

Still that site we talked about a good while ago is one of the most interesting, not in and of it'self but Lepensky Vir is perhaps a vestige of a culture that spread over a larger area and going back to maybe 6400 BC or 8400 years ago when it may have fist been established it certainly rival's the like's of Catal huyak, if not in population then certainly in culture and importance (it's proximity to a major river is also important).

archaeology.about.com...

Of course civilization (Culture and it's complexity) goes up and down and climate play's a large part, take Scandinavia, they where living in wooden houses with window's and door's, thatched roof's that would not have been out of place in the 15th century over 4000 to 5000 years ago and then they degraded to living in hollowed out holes in hill sides with no chimneys and poor ventilation but they were as far as we can tell the same people and this shift up and down also varies by region (then scandinavia is not a small area by any mean's and has a broad range of different climate).

Of course most ancient habitation was built of organic material's as well so it tend's to be hard to detect them, except for there earth work give the celtic city's another 2000 years and what would we identify, where more recent agriculture at least leave's changes in the landscape, still given human grouping and tribalism I believe that village's go back into very distant pre history and of course so must town's as a result where I would term a town a village with a population over 1000, while the culture was hunter gatherer this would not be sustainable but during prolonged period's of abundance it may well have occured and so just as there was a barter system among the Australian population before modern colonization that spanned that continent it may indicate that such trade also existed then with hunter gatherer tribes selling food for good's in the larger town's or city's but of course human's being what they are this mean's war also goes back a very long time, why give your food when you can take that item by force.

By this reasoning though I would imagine the larger settlement's as well as trading with one another and perhaps forming confederations or even kingdoms to have been near to the sea or large well stocked river's simply because fishing may be one of the oldest branches of human hunting practice and of course such an abundance of food would promote larger settlement's which sadly with changing sea level's and other erosion such as river course change and flooding means that most such site's are definitely lost and we may truly never know what complexity they achieved.

You are right though there are definitely unidentified city's in those mound's and the mounds with ruins obviously indicate city on top of city so multiple period's of settlement and prolonged continuous settlement as well as destruction like troy, nineva and even jerusalem.

originally posted by: 727Sky
Ok we have some saying it is a sunken city and others saying it is a natural not man made jumble of blocks.. Maybe some of our members have more detail of the location. During the last ice age melt the ocean supposedly only rose about 100 meters so for this to be a real city the land would have to sunk (think big earth quake or sink hole ?) an additional 500 meters.

Estimating that it would have taken 50,000 years for such structures to have sunken to the depth at which they were said to be found, Iturralde added "50,000 years ago there wasn't the architectural capacity in any of the cultures we know of to build complex buildings." A specialist in underwater archaeology at Florida State University added "It would be cool if they were right, but it would be real advanced for anything we would see in the New World for that time frame. The structures are out of time and out of place." - See more at: www.ancient-origins.net...#!bmXe6D

www.ancient-origins.net...

Here is my take on this...The sunken city or the ruins and remnants which some think might be a sunken city could be fragments of the great and majestic city or civilization known as Atlantis. According to ancient records and accounts survived through the ages, Atlantis was a city which floated over the Earth. Literally levitating several thousand feet above the Earth where the Gods lived and watched over mortals below who lived on the surface of the Earth.

Something happened that caused the destruction of the city of Atlantis, breaking it up in pieces and fragments which fell and left a debris field extending from the Cuba and surrounding areas towards Africa and Asia (Yoniguni or however it is spelled). Some of the Energy crystals (fragments) fell into Bermuda and the Asian Bermuda triangle.

These crystal power sources are the same types of crystals that seed planets and stars like the one at the core of our planet.

Wow what a thread! What a huge collection of data, thank you guys so much.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Hanslune

I too do not take the litteral Atlantis very seriously but do believe as you know that there may be any number of site's lost, here is an Entertaining short video that is more an advert for some guy's idea about atlantis, needless to say I think he is wrong but I also think that the site he references was once as low as sea level at some point, it may be long before the city was built but I do believe violent uplift is what destroyed the city in the first place

You should examine that claim more thoroughly.

There is no city old enough to have been destroyed by the uplift that created the Andes, which is the uplift in question that lifted the Altiplano.

Harte

a reply to: phfaty

Ah but you are going into NAA which is not attested until the late 19th century and took off in the 1960's while the CPA is the only source for info on Atlantis*


NAA = New age Atlantis

CPA = Classic Plato's Atlantis

a reply to: Harte

It is still interesting Harte, if the story that the stone's at Puma Punku are so large and so scattered I can not think of anything other than a seismic event that could have done that except perhaps deliberate vandalism of which you know there was indeed some due to the spaniards search for gold and silver but even then most of the site is supposedly buried in thick layers of soil though carbon dating of samples is in accord with the orthodox interpretation of the site relatively young and it has to be pointed out that for a mountain region with a good deal of precipitation that the carvings that are exposed are relatively un weathered which also may point to a young age.

What I personally would like to see is an argon krypton isotopic analysis of a sheltered but exposed carved surface that was not buried so identify how long the carved surface has been exposed, it would not be concise but would once and for all close the book if it was in accord with the carbon dating or jam it open if it was not.

The orthodox view and belief to which you yourself ascribe is most likely correct but there are still questions about the site, one thing does have to be said though.

Most conspiracy theorists make out the local people could never have built it yet through out south america there are constructions and irrigation cannals that the the native people most certainly did build such as the irrigation canals that turned a desert green by bringing water hundreds of miles from the andes to a parched desert, some of those cultures may have commited human sacrife and eaten human flesh but they were also incredible engineer's and builder's, as well as perhaps more efficiant farmers than there children are today.

So they could have built it of that there is no doubt but it is still one of the marvel's of south america.

On the flip side of the coin though Harte there is the question of the fauna and flora of the lake that are basically sea flora and fauna that have undergone forced rapid adaptation to slow desalination, they have had enough time to adapt but not enough to become completely different species to those at sea level so the upthrust of that region has to be much more recent than the 20 million year birth of the Andes, as you know they are a young mountain range and still in the process of uplift today as the south american plate buckles against and rides over a thick pacific plate.

a reply to: LABTECH767

One problem with an extreme date for PP and if you discount the natives there - then who built it? There is no sign of an organized culture and if you take some of the ealier dates - no humans at all nor any sign of anybody else.

a reply to: 727Sky

Here's another angle of that sunken image.



We're still waiting on Advanced Digital Communications to submit the original side scan sonar mapping that resulted in this computer rendering. It should look similar to this:

a reply to: lostinspace

One might ask where that first image actually comes from.

In reply to Harte and Hanslune.

I took your advice and did a little research, the site's of Tiwanaku and Puma Punku, best regarded as a single site are indeed young at no more then mid sixth to early seventh cetury AD, because part's of the site are built on underlying river cobble used as a foundation and other parts are clay the Radio Carbon dating is sound.

While this does not alter my perspective on the sunken city and the possible continental tilt mechanism for it's submersion to such a depth along with the probably other site's that also suffered as a result of this tilting motion it does indeed support the orthodox view that the Bolivian ruin's are indeed nothing too unusual but they are still magnificent if somewhat evil in that they were a site of human ritual sacrifice.

Here is an excellent wiki page on Puma Punku which suggests the Gate of the Sun may have once been part of the Puma Punku site moved to the Tiwanaku site at some point and outlines the information on the buried structures which are far more extensive than we can see today, turns out unsuprisingly they were a culture that had a very heavy use of halluinagenic plant's with traces of the hallucinagenic compound's found in the remains of children as young as one year of age and the reason the site of Tiwanaku was built into the mountain was possible because of it's ritual importance to the people who built the site.

The whole site was abruptly abandoned about 1000 AD which though considered to have possible climate change may also have marked a power or religious shift, the Inca regarded the site as the birth place of the world though there culture is not as far as we can tell directly related.

Maybe it is because Obsidian had such importance in there culture but site's like this where they used metal to tie the stone together does make you wonder why the native people's of south america never developed metal weapons like they did in the old world and I can not help but wonder now if the canal's at the site could have been used for transporting stone to the site first then adapted to the agricultural use they later served, maybe an earch quake tilted the basin and dried the canal's out causing famine and also contributing or causing the site to be abandoned.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now slightly off topic?.

Just want to pick your brains on something half remembered.

There is a place nicknamed the temple of the elephant's (I cant remember which country but hope you know the site and can correct me, it is in the amazon, on which elephant's some with tusks are engraved but regarded as ant eaters, incorporated into temple are four massite stone wheel's each with a square axle hole and all are heavily decorated being regarded as Sun Disc's but a friend of a former friend made a media presentation for a university disertation on the site way back in the very early 90's or late 1980's, he believed them to be wheel's as some of the stones at the site are very huge as indeed are the stone wheel's themselve's, he believed that maybe there had been a link to a classical period african or pheonician culture and during that period some elephant's had been shipped over to south america as the local species along with horse's had been extinct well over 11000 years so as to be used in the construction of that temple.

Of course they probably are ant eaters but it is interesting.

Here are some thread's, one is ATS circa 2002.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now other than this and a load of mormon related stuff I can not find anything about it and since I no longer wish to talk to my former friend Mr Ewing over a severe breech of trust (his uncle was a solicitor and J used confidential information belonging to my mother which he passed to his uncle mr Dwyer for his own end's sabotaging a fight for justice we where engaged in so it was an act of ultimate betrayal which mean's I no longer have access to that video his university aquaintance had made, My Very former friend (he would be well advised never to cross my path) went on to work as an Arab Israeli peace negotiator for the UN, Hmm successful was'nt He (bloody traitor).

Sorry about bringing that into it, but do you know anything about this or could it have been a hoax, all I can recall was that the wheel's where stood on the outside of the building and among other Mayan type glyphs were elephant images that had been designated as Ant Eater's but some had carving's of Tusks, the Discs or wheels were about 10 feet tall from my memory of the video and the lad who made it had spent a year in south america where he made the video.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You might be remembering a piece from Daniken's book "The Gold of the Gods"

EVD book

Page 23, figure 15.

If I remember correctly this piece of art came from the Father Crespi collection and was a fake.

Edit to add I also remembered that on a Mayan temple at Chicken Itza were representations in art of what some claimed were elephants while in fact they were buildings dedicated to the god Chac (Chac Xib Chac or Yaxha Chac) who is shown as three-dimensional masks embedded into their buildings. Chac was their god of rain and lightning. Some alternative thinking believes they represent not Chac but Mountain gods or 'Witz'.

a reply to: Hanslune

Thank's, the guy made a video showing the site, it was not EVD and I have actually not read his book's but have read a few pieces others have quoted, All I remember was the video consisted of slides and motion video with a running commentary, the close ups showed bass relief elephant or stylized ant eaters and outside the temple against one wall where the four sun discs each about twice the height of a man with a square hole in the middle and bass relief carving's on them, they also appeared to have been divided into astrological signs but each wheel though of identical size and thickness was carved with different pattern's.

I wish I have kept a copy of the disk now but it was so long ago now my memory may also be fuzzy on the matter, it generally is these day's on a lot of matter's.

I did a search using google but nothing I recognized showed up but it could be that it was not the most exciting of thing's and so never garnered much attention but also from my memory though the imagery was certainly reminiscent of elephant's it could also be as regared simply ant eater's.

Maybe one day I will stumble on it again but till then it will have to remain a mystery but it could be the one at chichen itza as well, what we see is often not what the carving was intended to represent by it's artists as we come from a completely different cultural and perceptual base to those people.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

It is still interesting Harte, if the story that the stone's at Puma Punku are so large and so scattered I can not think of anything other than a seismic event that could have done that except perhaps deliberate vandalism of which you know there was indeed some due to the spaniards search for gold and silver but even then most of the site is supposedly buried in thick layers of soil though carbon dating of samples is in accord with the orthodox interpretation of the site relatively young and it has to be pointed out that for a mountain region with a good deal of precipitation that the carvings that are exposed are relatively un weathered which also may point to a young age.

The site was mined for stone by the locals for centuries.
Pumapunku as it was found (pic from 1903):


No doubt some of it fell down. Also no doubt much of it was removed and used elsewhere.

originally posted by: LABTECH767 What I personally would like to see is an argon krypton isotopic analysis of a sheltered but exposed carved surface that was not buried so identify how long the carved surface has been exposed, it would not be concise but would once and for all close the book if it was in accord with the carbon dating or jam it open if it was not.

C14 dating performed there included organic materials found under the existing construction that was still in it's original position.

The dates could be refined through further testing, but that takes money and people don't like to waste precious resources to test the same thing over and over.

There's no question the site dates to the Common Era.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
On the flip side of the coin though Harte there is the question of the fauna and flora of the lake that are basically sea flora and fauna that have undergone forced rapid adaptation to slow desalination, they have had enough time to adapt but not enough to become completely different species to those at sea level so the upthrust of that region has to be much more recent than the 20 million year birth of the Andes, as you know they are a young mountain range and still in the process of uplift today as the south american plate buckles against and rides over a thick pacific plate.

You've been misled, if you're talking about the seahorses.

Turned out only one, dead seahorse was ever found at Titicaca, and it was not in the water. There is no seahorse population in the lake that has ever been documented.

We can't pretend that the marine life in Titicaca has never been studied (lin k.

Harte