What Happened to the Sunken City of Cuba?

Ok we have some saying it is a sunken city and others saying it is a natural not man made jumble of blocks.. Maybe some of our members have more detail of the location. During the last ice age melt the ocean supposedly only rose about 100 meters so for this to be a real city the land would have to sunk (think big earth quake or sink hole ?) an additional 500 meters.

Estimating that it would have taken 50,000 years for such structures to have sunken to the depth at which they were said to be found, Iturralde added "50,000 years ago there wasn't the architectural capacity in any of the cultures we know of to build complex buildings." A specialist in underwater archaeology at Florida State University added "It would be cool if they were right, but it would be real advanced for anything we would see in the New World for that time frame. The structures are out of time and out of place." - See more at: www.ancient-origins.net...#!bmXe6D

www.ancient-origins.net...

Edgar Cayce said Atlantis would be found off the coast of Bimini.
I do believe we will find evidence of advanced civilizations one day in the depths of our oceans.

Looks like something you'd see in Belize .....maybe at one time the land was connected between Cuba and Belize

a reply to: 727Sky

I'm pretty sure they couldn't get the funding for a third expedition or there were some technical difficulties. The original side scan sonar images were interesting but much everything after that was fabricated by people who picked up the on the story and added their own wild embellishments.

I'm not sure where the image in the ancient origins source came from but I'm skeptical that it came from Zalitzki and Weinzweig. Don't get me wrong, sunken city off the coast of Cuba replete with pyramids? That would be freakin awesome, but 600+ meters below the surface? If I'm not mistaken, global sea level was at most only 100 meters or so lower during the last ice age than it is now.

The "city" is a computer generated fraud:

An underwater city west of Cuba (badarchaeology.wordpress.com)

It's discoverer, Paulina Zelitsky, attempted to use those images to sucker money out of financiers, no luck so far... (PS: those CGI images are circa 2001, and show it.)

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
The "city" is a computer generated fraud:

An underwater city west of Cuba (badarchaeology.wordpress.com)

It's discoverer, Paulina Zelitsky, attempted to use those images to sucker money out of financiers, no luck so far... (PS: those CGI images are circa 2001, and show it.)

I figured someone on this board would have some additional info.. Thanks for the update.. Over 600 meters pretty much ruled out a lost city for me err 99% anyway.

Yep, just to confirm, it was a fraud. They tried to con money out of investors to go and have a look, but not enough people were biting. Thankfully.

a reply to: 727Sky

I did some research on this a little while back and apparently Zelitsky and Co had to go back to treasure hunting after turning down a book offer then losing the offer national geographic was going to make to them (but national geographic wanted exclusive right's), the offer on the book was then withdrawn since if national geographic did not want it then neither did the publisher.

It is a fantastic find though and in my opinion is a wrench in the work's for current model's of geologically recent history for the americas and may indicate a possible validation of the continent tilt theory which states that in some circumstances a continent can as a single body tilt or see saw as it passes over thick ocean or continental material as the thick ocean crust is being subducted under one side of the continent such as the pacific plate on america's and south america's western sea board.

Couple that with the thin plate of the atlantic and the stage is set, what is more it may have happened within the past 14000 years and even possible more recently, on the eastern side of south america high on the altiplana near to lake Titicaca are the megalithic ruins of puma punku and tiwanaku, there huge stone's seem to have been tossed around like a child's building block's by some great hand
by a huge earth quake so maybe it happened during such an uplift and tilt of the continent.

The lake has sea flora and fauna (though less varietys) that have adapted in stunted form to the high altitude and fresh water yet are recognizable as the same plant's and animals from the sea coast and there genetics are almost identical indicating minimal shift in evolution that could have happened through forced adaptation as the salt water of the trapped fjord that is now lake titcaca was desalinated over time by fresh water runoff and precipitation.

Now back to that city and why this is relevant, It is my opinion it is a city but because Zelitsky and company did not clinch the deal they were after they decided to sit on the coordinates and keep it as well as lot's of footage and data to themselve's. Remember they were in it for the money and searching for treasure galleon's at the time so since a pile of stones and sunken buildings was not something they could salvage they tried to sell the story.

At over 1000 feet (1275) it is too deep even to have been exposed during the Glacial minimum of the last ice age as that would only have lowered the sea a little over 400 feet (still exposing land that in total area around the globe exceeded europe and north america combined and was the fertile warm land's where city's, town's, villages and agriculture may have taken place but it remains near completely unexplored by archaeologists except those interested in sunken ships though there are enigmatic tale's of road's, wall's and even ruins in many part's of the world).

So what could have sunk that city near 800 feet deeper than the glacial minimum sea level.

One theory that sounds implausible is that a large chunk of haity broke of and slid down the side of the island but no convinding evidence of this theory has been produced and most simply dismiss the city out of hand because of it's depth and refuse to consider it, the other is continental tilt.

Now there are earth markings that show human habitation under the amazon and the entire rain forrest may be younger than originally estimates, indeed it is possible that those marking indicate settlement and presence predating the areas of the rain forrest that now overgrow them perhaps indicating a radical climate shift, the amazon also may once had flowed east and lakes that are now valleys may have been emptied by such a tilt also while vast area's of land bordering the atlantic would have been lost to the sea at depths and further in land than the glacial melt would have accounted for.

www.australiangeographic.com.au...

Now as you know the mid atlantic ridge is a chain of volcanic mountains that are forced up by magma thrusting the crust apart and are the place the atlatic began long ago when it spilt america + europe and africa + south america apart then pushed them away from one another but remember that the crust of the atlantic is still fresh and thin compared to the pacific which is much much older and in places far thicker.

It may be that a volcanic release lowered pressure under the atlantic coupled with a reduction in ice cap (In any one of the preceeding ice age's and inter ice age period's so it could possibly be even older) and increase of weight and pressure from the swelling ocean then pushed the ocean crust down deeper.

So the atlantic would much like the mediteranean is now being, have been pushed down by the weight of the ocean as simultaneously the eastern sea board of south america ran up against a thickened area of ocean crust and tried to ride up over it, now imagine all of that pressure building then suddenly like an elastic band breaking the fault lines gave and the continent simple tilted in a fashion that took only a very small period, perhaps day's or week's at most and imagine a huge many miles high tsunami in the atlantic and pacific washing away under miles high waves all trace of civilization and the swell even penetrating to the heart of the continent's (yes another possible Noah's flood explanation and scenario).

Look at the damage a small tsunami did in the pacific but this would have washed over mountains, perhaps the mediteranean is much younger then current estimates and this swell washed away the isthmus of gibralter opening the large valley to the sea as well.

This would have been a world changing event and wiped nearly all people who then would have lived near the now lost coastlines out as well as destroying there city's and eradicating all trace of there culture's, causing climate shift and famine.

The city off north west Cuba would have been submerged with only the one inundation as it sank and in it's submerged position it would have not incurred more damage from this Tsumani or Sloshing of the sea caused by a rapid continental tilt and would have remained almost as it was after the first flood as it sank while the Tsunami passed over it almost harmlessly, to this very day though buried in the sediment that would obviously have been stirred up, Now see the importance to learning about such a potential cataclysm and the importance of properly researching the site and dating it to geological science as well as the implications it may have for our own future.

Error in above post

"At over 1000 feet (1275) it is too deep even to have been exposed during the Glacial MAXIMUM of the last ice age as that would only have lowered the sea a little over 400 feet (still exposing land that in total area around the globe exceeded europe and north america combined and was the fertile warm land's where city's, town's, villages and agriculture may have taken place but it remains near completely unexplored by archaeologists except those interested in sunken ships though there are enigmatic tale's of road's, wall's and even ruins in many part's of the world). "

Glacial maxium is when the sea is at it's lowest due to ice bound water on land and at the poles and similarly Glacial minimum is when it is at it's deepest due to less ice


Now back to this continuation.

I actually do not believe in a single atlantis but there are similar tales on both sides of the atlantic and many debunker's and believers erroneously claim that Plato or even Solon where the origin of the tale, here is some more showing it was known of or told of before there time.
www.atlantisquest.com...

Now another problem many bring about is a belief that the people back 50.000 years where not capable of building when it is obvious they were modern human so must have had the capability but the place they all look for evidence was back then a wild hinterland filled with predator's and primitive tribes while the place any CULTURE would have built or arisen would most likely have been on the warmer more fertile river deltas and coastline's which of course have been flooded not once but several times in that period and are now under water but when and if we enter another glacial maximum will once again be land.

It is possible sizable islands did indeed exist in the atlantic near the mid atlantic ridge and if the theory I outline above has any voracity then it is also possible that continental rises now submerged protruded then from the water but at each glacial minimum the sea is a little deeper in the atlantic due to ongoing pressure depression (though crustal pressure is variable due to ongoing seismic activity at the mid atlantic ridge and ocean spread plus it can only be pushed down so far before equalization occurs and a slight lifting during each glacian minimum may occure as downward pressure is lowered to the point where upward pressure may become positive) of the sea bed and during glacial maximum this is amplified by the sea being moderatly (400 or so feet) deeper so with each successive ice period over the past 5 million years the coast would have retreated further each time toward the higher continental mass meaning the coast in the first glacial maximum would be extensively further out than the coast at the last glacial maximum.

Human's have a habit of using what ever is to hand to build and near river deltas this is usually mud brick and in forrested area's wood, now mud brick does not like being submerged and wood rot's away so those potential city's if they ever existed would never be found having litterally dissolved away.

Stone is more durable but also form's marine habitat's and of course tend's to used in conjunction with support timber's so any remains shallow enough during the sea level rises would likely be coral encrusted and probably unrecognizable, if they where built on soft ground they may also sink in that time period into there own foundations dependant upon density of the underlying material and the effect on it of submersion and timber's would rot causing collapse of the structure's into rubble except where they did not used such support material.

I have had some pretty respected members in the past deny that these exist en.wikipedia.org...
archaeologyonline.net...

There main problem being that they would if agriculture is proven disprove the fertile crescent origin of civilization and are a lot older than mesoptamia, perhaps twice as old but of course they may be too advanced to be the first city's and other's may have and indeed are likely to have existed prior to there construction elsewhere.

Now given the relative extreme primitive level of the like's of Catal Huyak (or indeed lepensky viir believed to have been a cult center) in comparison (A hunter gatherer settlement viewed by many archeaologists as a proto city, the resident's entered via the roof down ladders and there were no external door's similar to many american indian ruins in Arizona and Nevada but this was in Anatolia in turkey) I favor the up and down view of cultural and civilization progression where each civilization has a potential to be greater than the one that came before so long as we know the lessons of the lost civilization, such as Mesopotamia to Egypt to Greece to Rome to Our civilization but sometimes the fall is so precipitous the whole civilization building project can flatline for a long period and the lesson's learned before are then lost.

A similar sequence can be seen in meso america with the Olmec to Maya to Aztec and the short period of dark age's between each.

And then how old is the Human race really, there was even a theory that our large brains come from our ancestor's eating shellfish and living a semi aquatic life on the sea shore's but that was all it was a theory supported by a few ancient shell midden's in south africa.

Here are some interesting web page's for your enjoyment and remember the so called expert's often know little or no more than yourself and merely educated GUESS and voice OPINION as fact which then rides on there reputation, it really is all about who win's the argument.

www.6000years.org...
ancientexplorers.com...
www.beforeus.com...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
home.comcast.net...
www.delusionresistance.org...

There are many many more site's and the creationist site's are worth looking at even if you disagree with them as they act as a repository of the weird and wonderful in many cases, all of which can be interpreted in other way's but are interesting nevertheless and there are alternative reasons for how something can be embedded in rock such as this.
www.rense.com...

But it is also worth bearing this in mind as well.
www.icr.org...

Start's to make the history we have been taught and indeed the universe a much weirder place than we can comprehend does it not.

a reply to: LABTECH767


OR

its no city at all

a reply to: Hanslune

There is more proof for it being a city or artifical structure's than against it as you well know Hanslune.

The only argument against it is it's depth and the side scan sonar result's are indicative of artifical structure's not natural formation's, indeed as a cop out explanation such fantasy's as a soviet era underwater construction and submarine base have been suggested even though the soviet's did not have the requisite technology to build such at that depth during the soviet era without the US detecting it and perhaps did not have the technology to do so full stop, US submarine patrols which were constant as where overflight's of Cuba to monitor both during and after the Cuban missile crisis.

The CGI was based on the side scan sonar and was no where near as ropey as some would like to make it out to be, the technology since 2001 really has not come on that far and it really was a case of Paulina Zelitsky wanting too much money from National Geographic and not having sufficiant Processed high quality footage for the planned TV show, though they did and still do have a lot of very high quality Unprocessed side scan data and even images taken with there ROV, now you know how difficult it is operating an ROV in such conditions and how much money it can cost per hour just to take a few photograph's it is not like dropping a cable and camera and the ROV is a expensive piece of equipment even for a B or C grade elderly or substandard device.

That particular expedition which was searching for spanish galleons to salvage cost Zelitsky and co money they could not replace possible putting them into debt so they tried to recap that loss by charging exhorbitant amount's for there data which though real was frankly not exciting enough to make the show that national geo thought they were going to make as it was not king tut's tomb or gilded underwater palaces so in other word's it was underwhelming for the national geographic representative to see grainy black and white images of the masonry and pyramid like stone but that in no way invalidates or invalidated the DATA.

Do you actually have counter evidence to proove your point on that matter and to support your disbeleif on the site, if so please reference it for us.

What makes me angry though is people keep claiming this is Atlantis, Atlantis was a parable told by Plato and other's before him based on a legend that predated Plato and Solon and the most likely place if the legend hold's any truth is either the british Isles or the Canary Isles and not the Caribean (Britain and Eira have lot's of Circular site's just like plato's capital city but much smaller and circled strutures and settlements go back to the neo lithic in Britain and Eira), I believe the idea Thera is Atlantis is preposterous as well though it was a highly advanced culture and perhaps well ahead of any one else for about a thousand years after they were destroyed.

This city does not exist in the correct location for the Legendary Atlantis and matches non of the legend's feature's, it is not a ring based city with canals but it is a city or temple complex with plaza not that different to Maya type temple complex or Teotihuacan in mexico and could be the part of or even the inspiration for AZTLAN from the aztec legend of a lost land to the east in the sea, or it could be a whole lot older.

You do realize that there where modern Human's with modern brains walking around as far back as perhaps 200.000 years ago and we are supposed to accept that they in all that time did not build city's until 6500 years ago.

Also we are supposed to blindly accept that this race whom existed through at least several Ice Ages did not utilise the fertile low lying plains that where then dry land at the Glacial maximum period's.

Given that it is even possible the Pyramid's in Bosnia are real with a growing number of volunteers whom have gone to the site agreeing with that and believing it from there own personal first hand experiance ancient civilization's have increasing supporting evidence to support a belief they existed and indeed if we look at the Bay of Kambaht and the two known sunken city's there it is an actual fact that is the case but it is simply and deliberatly being mocked and put down by people with ulterior and ignorant motivations based on self esteem and entrenched opinions that have formed immovable belief in there psyche's which they are then driven to impart upon other's as the actuall fact when in fact THEY ARE WRONG.

One other observation, with each ice age the continental plate of north america and europe was pushed down, the frequency of ice ages over the past 5 million year's at least has prevented them from rising back up to there maximum boyance and indeed they have lost altitude as a consequence pushing there nothern continental land surface down with a reduction in post ice age land surface as opposed to pre ice age land surface and it is a considerable reduction, this of course means that despite what we have looked at near the equator there is even more lost land up here in the northern hemisphere than rising sea level's alone would account for and the hinterland where we now live was once even more inhospitable, is it any wonder the ice formed easier on higher ground and was it's own worst enemy by pushing that ground to lower altitudes where after the melt new glaciation became harder due to lower altitude and higher ambient temperature, also though I do not believe in earth crust displacement theory due to the presence of thermal updraft's (Hawaii, Yelowstone national park) evidently not having been disturbed enough to support it something big happend to change the path of the gulf stream and the oceanic conveyor of with the subsequent climate shift on top of other causes that it caused.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Howdy Labtech

Sorry no I cannot prove their is a NOT a city* there.

If you feel strongly about it I suggest you raise the money to go investigate further.

That is the only way to resolve the question.

*I would note that there is no sign of an advanced culture in the vicinity of that site, if there was a city there they didn't use stone tools, resources, pottery, bury their dead or use ships. Usually around a city such things are found in large amounts. Does that prove a city is not there, no it shows that at this time no evidence of one has been found.

a reply to: Hanslune

If only I could, it has been a dream of mine since childhood but we all have to live in the Real world and by that I mean in essence other than some interesting data what real difference would proof for or against make to any of us in our day to day lives as it would not pay the bill's or at the level of Neolithic style architecture that I suppose exists there it would definitely not provide any new technology but bear with me.

Whatever happened so long ago we may never truly know but it would be nice to leave a constructive legacy of data for our children to build on.

While I believe it to be real I also believe Zelitsky and co had relatively poor data and it need's both the cooperation of the Cuban and US government's and someone with the funding and connections of Jame's Cameron and his own science buddy's to explore the site, the Cuban's meanwhile would get paranoid and stop it but if there is one site then chances are that there may be other's outside of there territorial waters and is it worth it if all it reveal's is that a primitive human sacrifice sun worshiping culture lived there long ago, Well I believe it is.

The say we know more about the surface of the moon than the bed of the ocean and for me the travesty is that we could easily solve so many problems that collective humanity fears and is facing simply by making better use of the world, we have spread to every continent even antarctica but we still have not colonized the sea or even the land under our feet (though DUMB's may be real do they classify as such).

There is a vast area that could be farmed, colonized and lived in with simulated sunshine all under water as well as subterranean colonization under land, the downside is pollution as we tend to take then throw what we do not want back and if the human race is to survive we have to find the solution.

So for me exploration of the sea and identification of these site's is paramount to opening the psyche of the human race to an area that is currently phobic to them as well as showing they can fail and that lesson must be learned.

Of course we still have not made efficiant use of the land we use, I envisage correct use allowing a population of over 100 billion to be sustainable but it requires a mix of science and engineering along with traditional techniques advanced to there maximum potential.

Imagine ten or twenty mile high A frame pyramid like structure's with deck's every so often, closer together near the top and further apart lower down to compensate for the area shaded above and allow more light in at the side's, windowed higher up to create greenhouse environment's and on each deck feild's of crop's with irrigation systems with water recycling to maximise the use of the space so one acre become's several acres with different crop's on each level, multiple such structures with the space between them occupied by habitation and city's, solar and geothermal energy solutions, commuter monorails and pedestrianized street's, Solar panel taking up all unused space where crop's where not grown and this just on land and industry consigned to subterranean level's.

Now this is just one vision of course people need space but imagine what we COULD do if we only put our collective will into it, colonization of the moon and mars though is child's play compared to making people get along and replacing our barter society with something better (though consumerism is a great drive toward innovation so what would we replace that with), it all comes down to cost.

Knowledge of our past if there was evidence that we failed then and the insertion of that knowledge into the collective subconscious a well as instilling a collective will to not fail again may help the human species to survive but as long as every one is going about grabbing for themselves and becoming increasingly less altruistic our current culture is damned to fail at some point, I doubt it will be a doomesday but more a first world shift to third world economic's and is not such being seen already taking place.

Every individual is irreplacable and every individual is invaluable but until we can work as one toward a common sensible and mutually beneficial goal we will not see this as society (Ok I am being idealistic but you know what I mean and I think understand now my belief on the matter), country's are just like individual's, it is all me, me, me, mine, mine, mine and until they realize they live together on this tiny world they will continue to say to one another "you speak different", "you are a different colour", "you smell" and nit pick at one another but a shared common history may sow a deep psyche message that we are connected at a more fundemental level and that our ancestors made the same mistake that we must learn not to do so.

OK I am rambling now so best leave it at that.

Maybe its not a city but a temple complex or something. I remember reading about the this one guy back in the late 70's that claimed he found a crystal pyramid in that same area between Florida and Cuba.

a reply to: DemonSpeedN

Yeah but that was in shallow water, there are lot's of sighting's reported including some in the everglades but no concrete proof has ever been revealed to the public.

During the war US pilots flying supplys from brazil to africa at the narrowest point of the ocean to supply the north african campaign reported seeing a rise under the water when the sun was at an oblique angle and near the top of that rise or sunken island which was under water they reported seeing what looked like a ruined town or city, walls and street's.

Whatever the truth is this tale is from the 1970's about a man who supposedly recovered a quartz crystal from inside a sunken pyramid.

www.youtube.com...
news.wikinut.com...

Personally though I do not believe this story but it is interesting nevertheless though on the video that look's like slight of hand with the coiled metal rod, I have seen dowsing in action and it can work though this look's odd, I may be wrong and it may be real.
After all the guy put his reputation on the line.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
I actually do not believe in a single atlantis but there are similar tales on both sides of the atlantic and many debunker's and believers erroneously claim that Plato or even Solon where the origin of the tale, here is some more showing it was known of or told of before there time.
www.atlantisquest.com...

Your link tells of a couple of mentions of the word "atlantis" pre-Plato.

If you had bothered to look into it further, you would have found that the Hellanikos "Atlantis" uses the term as the Greek word it is - translated it means "of Atlas" (of, or having to do with, Atlas.)

The work by Hellanikos (nothing left but a handful of parchment shreds) appears to be concerned with the family of Atlas (there it is - "atlantis") the Titan. The Atlas in Plato's tale was not the Titan Atlas.
Besides, in exactly what way is it unusual for a Greek author to use a Greek word when writing in Greek?

Herodotus' use of the term regards a certain people he claimed lived in Northern Africa, In the Atlas Mountain Range (named, again, after the Titan) near the foot of a mountain these people called "Mount Atlas."
The were the people of Atlas (there it is again) Mountain.

You know, you can read Herodotus' Histories online yourself and find this out. Same with Hellanikos. I did.

The site you linked offers absolutely nothing at all regarding Atlantis.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Hart, You know the Atlas mountains are named after the Atlantic ocean by the ancient people and Vice versa with the Atlantic being considered to have been named after them by some authority's, Atlas the Titan who hold's up the heaven's or in another version hold's the world on his shoulder's, his daughter Calypso is far more interesting with her hidden ISLAND SUNK by the God's in wrath at her releasing Ulyseas.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Good ramble with one correction, the permission of the US government is not needed just the Cuban. One would think the Cubans, who have a fairly robust archaeology program, would like to find such a city - both for the prestige and for some one upmanship over the Yanqui.

Yep I'm hoping to live long enough to see the landing on Mars but my hopes continue to fade.

Re: That alleged city, I've wondered that myself... several times.

The recent "astr0, Black Triangles...etc." thread in the Grey Area suggests we had a space faring civ until app. 150,000 yrs ago.

I never gave that any credence, at all, but I must say, Astr0 is interesting... let's just say that several long term, extremely rational, skeptical, educated members are buying (at least many aspects of) his story... for several reasons, including personal verification... and leave it at that.

It's worth a gander, even if total hooey (and trust me... I'm well aware of why it should be... and I'm still flummoxed).

Skoal.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Hart, You know the Atlas mountains are named after the Atlantic ocean by the ancient people and Vice versa with the Atlantic being considered to have been named after them by some authority's, Atlas the Titan who hold's up the heaven's or in another version hold's the world on his shoulder's, his daughter Calypso is far more interesting with her hidden ISLAND SUNK by the God's in wrath at her releasing Ulyseas.

The Atlas Mountains are named for Atlas, not the Atlantic. You're right about the Atlantic Ocean though.
Stop and consider what the word "Atlantic" means in English.

"Of Atlas," isn't it.

The Atlantic Ocean could be called the "Ocean of Atlas" and be correct in English.

It originally was "Ocean" in Greek (Okeanos.) Then Poseidon, who had been considered as confined to the Mediterreanean, became the God of all of that and the god Okeanos sort of took a back seat.

When we say "Atlantic Ocean," then, we are really saying a God's name and referring to him as being owned or controlled by Atlas, a far cry from the actual meaning.

So, the Greeks called it the "Sea of Atlas," because to them, "ocean" meant something entirely different.

Regarding Calypso, I've heard the theory behind what you say. However, I've not located any Greek Myth that tells us Ogygia sank at all.

Given that several Greeks tried to pin down it's location - Ionian Sea was one spot and some claimed it could have been in the Atlantic - the fact is, as far as I can tell, nobody knew, nobody knows and nobody in antiquity has said that it sank.
IOW, what you said doesn't come from antiquity as far as I've been able to determine.

That said, I very much enjoy Greek Mythology myself, but am not an expert on it.

Harte