A question to Americans defending Israel

here is where it gets confusing. Remember the original meaning of nation was to mean a PEOPLE. The Israelis leadership in 1948 seen a opurtunity to once again do something that God said HE would do himself. The israelis didnt have to have a Nation(land) for the israeli nation(people)

But the damage has been done so its a moot point now. This is a biblical issue between both peoples. between the house of david and ishmail. as such the UN and the rest of the world needs to butt out and let them fight it out.

a reply to: sosobad

it is not a valid question....

if the definition of 'terrorism' is not agreed upon, how can it be a valid question?

but you probably dont even care... right? maybe this whole thread is an attempt to make a statement...

a reply to: ketsuko

My understanding is that you are incorrect. Hitler wanted rid of the Jews from Germany. He asked America and UK to take them and they refused, so he decided to send them to Palestine. Eventually the British who controlled Palestine tried to stop the Jews arriving in Palestine because the local population felt that enough of them had been let in. The Jews therefore had nowhere to go and were stuck in the concentration camps. After the war the British abandoned Palestine and the remaining Jews in Europe flooded into Palestine.

It was Hitler who started the move of Jews to Palestine because nobody else wanted them. The Brits tried to stop it but gave up. Eventually the Jews declared the area of Palestine where they were concentrated as a separate independent country and since then have been stealing more and more land from the indigenous people, Palestinians.

originally posted by: Fargoth
a reply to: combatmaster
Well he/she is not filthy rich so it wont happen. Only the highest bidder gets a chance of holding office.

Not exactly true.
You must kiss the AIPAC ring, and a dual citizenship wouldn't hurt the career chances either.
There are many ...problems people overlook about israel.
Some folks are just too deep in their cognitive dissonance that if they actually admitted the truth, their head would explode.
It is not an easy thing realizing the people who are supposed to be heroes are actually villains, it's even harder to admit it.

a reply to: combatmaster

if the definition of 'terrorism' is not agreed upon

How many meanings exactly does the word terrorism have anyway?
I don't own a dictionary but I was under the impression the word meant the same thing to everybody as it is written in the dictionary.
Unless I can claim my horse is a pair of scissors??

a reply to: g146541

I don't own a dictionary

Google is your friend!

there is a big debate as to what exactly defines terrorism.

Israel has done nothing for America. Nothing. Zip. All they have given us is dead soldiers and citizens. And they used this country for the development of Israel. The intention of moving Jews to Israel (Palestine) was started back in the late 1800s with the formation of Zionism. World War 2 was a perfect staging for it to happen. They needed it to swell sympathy for the Jewish people, thus guaranteeing them the land. The Balfour agreement was pushed through with no consultation of the indigenous people who lived there.

Did you know that Israel has still never declared their borders? Still never written a constitution? Yet we constantly are told they are "the only democracy in the middle east". Democracy for whom might I ask?

I have zero problem with Jewish people. Actually I have zero problem with their being an "Israel". But they should declare their borders, and in turn, the Palestinians should have equal recognition.

England is to blame for creating this Frankenstein.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: sosobad

it is not a valid question....

if the definition of 'terrorism' is not agreed upon, how can it be a valid question?

but you probably dont even care... right? maybe this whole thread is an attempt to make a statement...

Funny you should say something like that, Hamas see themselves as freedom fighters but are classified as terrorists. In your eyes they must be freedom fighters? Since you can't classify terrorism. Re-read my OP, I am clearly asking a question not making a statement, sometimes the truth hurts.

originally posted by: kinneret
Because I believe in my people's right to self-determination. I'm a jew so it's pretty straight forward for me.

I'm also a supporter of statehood for Palestinians Arabs, provided that statehood doesn't come at the expense of our Jewish statehood. It's no secret to anyone who has spent time in the region that Palestinians face persecution and segregation in the existing Arab states, so it makes sense to me that they'd want to be independant of them as well. I think we could be good neighbors; I've been to some of the shared spaces in Area B and everyone seems to get on fine. (Area B = the parts of the territories currently under joint Israeli and Palestinian control. There are rivers and parks and such there that are frequented by both people, and yes both Arabs and Jews swim together, picnic in the same spots, share bathrooms and locker rooms, etc.)

So no, Israel isn't perfect, and it's subject to the same power plays and corruption as any nation - but it's my second home. The USA has also done and does a lot of stupid things, but I love this country and the people in it anyway...Same principle applies to Israel for me.

The grass really isn't any greener on the other side (ie, the Palestinian militias are far from being angels), and while i'm sorry for any innocents caught in the middle i'm not sorry that we have the advanced technology to defend ourselves. War is hell, and we're fighting an existential battle. Hamas has made it clear that want the destruction of Israel, not just their own state but their own state in place of Israel. That's not a reasonable request and most Americans can probably agree, so the conflict between Israel and such militias is not reason to end the close defense alliance between Israel and the US. And most Israelis I know love the US and love Americans, so the affection goes both ways.

Hope that makes sense...I'm new to the board and told myself I wasn't going to spend a lot of time in Israel/Palestine threads because i'm too close to the issue, yet here I go commenting anyway. ;p

Thank you for being the only one to answer the question sincerely and without taking "offence" like other posters seem to have taken. Your answer is truthful and straight to the point, welcome to ATS

You come after me. I will make sure you don't do it again. That is about it.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: pennydrops
This seems to be a thread of people who dislike Israel telling everyone why people who like Isreal do so.

Im leaving.

Well then get your view out, no point in going into a thread just to post "Im leaving", tell us why you support them.

Oh no, I havent left a comment because firstly Im not american, secondly I do not support Israel.

This thread is specifically asking those people. Not me, so I wont answer FOR those people like everyone else including yourself does.

I dislike the way people on this thread are speaking for others....does that mean I support Israel?????

originally posted by: Fargoth
a reply to: pennydrops

So voice and defend your opinion It's an internet forum whats the worst that could happen?

Im not American and do not support Israel. DO you want me to tell you why I think these people believe what they do like you all seem to do.

The ops question was not directed at me so I will refrain from answering. My views have been expressed manytimes in the other threads.

originally posted by: pennydrops

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: pennydrops
This seems to be a thread of people who dislike Israel telling everyone why people who like Isreal do so.

Im leaving.

Well then get your view out, no point in going into a thread just to post "Im leaving", tell us why you support them.

Oh no, I havent left a comment because firstly Im not american, secondly I do not support Israel.

This thread is specifically asking those people. Not me, so I wont answer FOR those people like everyone else including yourself does.

I dislike the way people on this thread are speaking for others....does that mean I support Israel?????

Why are you taking such offence? I have not answered anything for anyone here, I asked a simple question as to why people support a state that in the past has used terrorism against them, if you find that offensive that is your problem. You came on to the thread to say you are leaving, that makes no sense at all and just derails the thread. Thanks for stopping by I suppose

So i guess no one is going to step up and answer the question then?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: pennydrops

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: pennydrops
This seems to be a thread of people who dislike Israel telling everyone why people who like Isreal do so.

Im leaving.

Well then get your view out, no point in going into a thread just to post "Im leaving", tell us why you support them.

Oh no, I havent left a comment because firstly Im not american, secondly I do not support Israel.

This thread is specifically asking those people. Not me, so I wont answer FOR those people like everyone else including yourself does.

I dislike the way people on this thread are speaking for others....does that mean I support Israel?????

Why are you taking such offence? I have not answered anything for anyone here, I asked a simple question as to why people support a state that in the past has used terrorism against them, if you find that offensive that is your problem. You came on to the thread to say you are leaving, that makes no sense at all and just derails the thread. Thanks for stopping by I suppose

No offence here mate. Never said there was. Just pointing out to those who speak for others that is is not really a good thing to do as the thread title specifically asks a certain type of demographic for their opinion but most replies were not from that demographic. One I am not included in so I see no reason for me to comment either. That is derailing the thread. I was trying to keep it on topic. Sorry.
I just wanted answers to YOUR question. We were not getting them.

I feel God moves in mysterious ways. With my heart, I truly believe there are ares of Israel that neither the Jews or Palestinians will be able to destroy. Supernatural intervention. I think there are things in that region that are, for lack of better words, mind boggling.

a reply to: g146541
AIPAC. Ugh. Don't even get me started. If people only knew how in bed our government is with them.

originally posted by: seasoul
Never forget America, "why the military knows Israel did 9/11."

9/11 and Israel: Alan Sabrosky’s Shocking Press TV Interview

Yep.

There are some ATS threads about the subject of Dr. Alan Sabrosky, but the main one had the video removed.

Someone did a good job compiling all this information on this blog here: www.john-friend.net...

Short Attention Span America.

To answer the OP, probably a variety of reasons. Sure, some may support Israel for religious reasons. A lot of it may be residue from cold war alliances--Israel was in pro-western camp, most of it's enemies was in the pro-soviet sphere of influence and that is where a lot of those allegiances were drawn. Finally, a lot of it is "the enemy of my enemy is my ally." Radical islamists ( note I said radical--I do not intend to suggest that all Muslims are full of hate or violence, just the radical extremists) hate Israel. Radical Islamists hate the US. Thus, it is natural for the US and Israel to be allies in that context.

I just dont see why Americans support Israel.

Are they trust worthy faith full allies? NO they will stab you in back first chance they get

Do they have a history of USA love? *cough* USS Liberty *cough*

Do they comply with intentional law? HELL NO they stockpile unregistered WMD's!

Are they important? Not really is Israel disappeared tomorrow it will hardly leave a big economic dent. What are there main exports besides misery and hate?