US crumbling. Detroit shuts off water to residents. UN asked to help.

What's a water bill? So city officials manage the distribution of water in order to make a big salary and therefore inflate the price of water to assure them self a nice paycheck. Sounds correct. Weren't many highers up there found to be stealing the public funds.

a reply to: gladtobehere


"But I cant ignore government in all this..."

This is a major factor. Detroit is under the control of a city manager appointed by Gov. Rick Snyder, who is a Republican.
The main agenda here is austerity. Municipal budgets have been reduced, and social spending has been slashed in the face of rising needs. Funding has been found, though, for business tax breaks and sports arenas.

To those who are eager to turn off the water, you know that a humanitarian crisis will emerge, but it will not be allowed to embarrass those in control. One way or the other, someone will pay to turn the water back on.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Beat me to it! I've lived in Southeast Michigan my whole life and spent a great deal of time both in Detroit and the suburbs. The article you linked is the reality here.

You mean to say if your on welfare they don't pay your water bill ?

Maybe some of the 3.7 billion Obama wants to help illegal's could help these people out...OH wait a minute there most likely all citizens of America, sorry, your already voting Democrat, this money is for NEW Dem's.

HAY here's a thought, when the illegals are all set up next door barrow some water from them.

Just a thought.

Can't pay, don't play.
It really is as simple as that.
You could always walk to the river and filter your own water.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
I think we have to ask a few questions here, BH.

Why are only 50% willing to pay for water?
(Note: We're talking over 100,000 people.)
What has prompted such an action from the public?
Or... Is it a REaction to something local government has done, or not done?

When 50% of a population refuses to pay for something as basic as water, there has to be a reason. We're not being told the whole story by the media, as usual. There's more to this. Especially if they are appealing to the UN. The whole story wreaks of half-truths, and outright lies. IMHO.

I understand people need water to survive. I would not be able to shut off someones water.

On the other hand I am not rich at all. For most of my life I have been poor. Right now I am doing fairly well but that is because I prioritize what is important. Most of me and my girlfriends money goes to rent and utilities. If we cant make the important utilities we shut off the cable or internet for a month. We dont go out as much if at all. My girlfriend smokes, so she does not get cigarettes for a couple weeks. We do not eat out and sometimes all we eat are sandwiches and maruchan soups.

We never complain and never ask for handouts. We sacrifice everything to live in a nice neighborhood away from gangs. When I did live in a bad neighborhood I saved up to get out. People can do it. It is hard but it can be done. If I do not get free water why should someone else?

I think people just do not want to sacrifice anything.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: gladtobehere

Water distribution systems, pumping stations, and treatment facilities don't magically build or maintain themselves and nobody works for free. It sucks, but it is simple economics at work.

That might be the simple view, but if the economics are no longer working, who ya' gonna call.
In any case do Americans pay no taxes, but if they do, what are the taxes for? If you pay taxes you should get something in return..simple economics.
The, ' I'm aright jack' attitude is a kind of smugness that so often comes back to bite you.

The wise choice would be for the city to put in a restrictor until the resident catches up on their bill. This would allow the water to dribble out, enough to keep people and pets hydrated, but would also serve as a constant reminder to pay up.

Enough with the excuses already.

Don't pay bills, don't recieve services.

Pretty simple really.

Everyone else has to pay, what makes them so different?

originally posted by: roadgravel
What's a water bill? So city officials manage the distribution of water in order to make a big salary and therefore inflate the price of water to assure them self a nice paycheck. Sounds correct. Weren't many highers up there found to be stealing the public funds.

Not too sure about the higher ups, but there was certainly a Wall Street interest rate caper going on, (possibly illegal) that likely turned what was already a crisis into a disaster. There could have been huge sums totally lost in that.
Okay I found the story I was looking for,

www.bloomberg.com...

Yes, the former Mayor was also involved, but it looks like he was conned as well..by Wall Street. It wasn't just loans and pensions, (although it seem many Detroit workers..yes workers, are owed retirement monies) there were also speculative interest rate deals done with the banks, a form of gambling that went awry big time..no guessing why there!
So yes I can sympathize with people in Detroit.

I know this is going to shock some people that think I'm this huge liberal.

(Blank) Detroit! And everyone that lives there!

Can't pay their bills? Do you know why? Because the fiscally liberal policies of the city have screwed themselves.

The city council is all at large which means none of them are accountable to any neighborhood, they have run off most businesses in the city so there aren't any jobs.

The UAW is corrupt, the police take hours to show up to a shooting, in short, Detroit is a clogged toilet that needs to be flushed. And that's as nice as i can put it.

Sell it to Windsor as a landfill.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: gladtobehere

Water distribution systems, pumping stations, and treatment facilities don't magically build or maintain themselves and nobody works for free. It sucks, but it is simple economics at work.

That might be the simple view, but if the economics are no longer working, who ya' gonna call.
In any case do Americans pay no taxes, but if they do, what are the taxes for? If you pay taxes you should get something in return..simple economics.
The, ' I'm aright jack' attitude is a kind of smugness that so often comes back to bite you.

Well stop and think about it for a minute:

Pay a bill for water that is sent to you, and for treatment of sewage that you discharge from where you live?

Or....

Pay a tax for....the exact same thing as above.

Either way: you are paying for it.

Normally the bill method, you are charged based upon how much water you are using. Use more water, you have to pay for more.

However, in each case, you are still having to "pay" for it. It's not a "free" service.

I used to live in the city a long time ago, and had to pay a water bill too. It averaged about 35 dollars a month or so. The bill actually covered: Water, Sewage and Trash Pickup.

If I didn't pay the bill? They'd shut off the water, and stop getting my trash.

Yes, the trash could pile up and be a health hazard. But guess what? There are several dumps that I can take my trash to. Let it pile up enough and you'll get fined. Pile up way too much and DHEC (Department of Health) can come in and kick you out of your home.

I live in the country. NO water service. Instead, I pump my own water right out of the ground. I have a septic system for sewage. I still pay someone to get my trash, but again, I could carry it myself to the county, or dig HUGE holes and bury it if I wanted to work that hard.

I do have to pay for the electricity to pump the water from my well. And if I loose power, I loose water. This past winter's ice storm and 5 days without power can make it very unpleasant to deal with.

However: you can get a solar power set up for your pump to help reduce the cost of pumping water (or when you loose power).

Do I feel sorry for those in Detroit?

Not the ones who continued to pay for cable, satellite, internet and cell phones, but not their water bill. Nope. not sorry at all for them.

Have a water "tax"?

Again...what is the difference between that and a water bill? You're still paying.

a reply to: Klassified

You would need to have a grasp on how things work in Detroit to begin to understand. Common sense falls by the wayside.



This is typical behavior from the City Council of Detroit. There are many other examples on Youtube if you're so inclined. Greatest hits include Monica Conyers, the lovely lady calling the Council President "Shrek" in the above video and who subsequently served some time in the clink on a bribery conviction, arguing heatedly with a 9 year old girl during another public meeting. It begins but doesn't come close to ending here.

Without going into a long winded explanation of the post WWII history of Detroit, ill simply say that surprisingly it is one of the most racially polarized cities in the country. Many Detroiters hold a deeply rooted resentment towards the suburbs and many suburbanites hold a deeply rooted animosity towards the city of Detroit.

50% believe they shouldn't pay for water because they haven't for years, those outside of the city have footed the bill and its worked out just fine for them so why change now? They are ENTITLED to it because thats the way it was. Now go back and reread the sentence about common sense above.

There is no media conspiracy or government screw up leading to poor services causing this 50% number, its simply a mentality issue prevalant in a large portion of the population. What can you reasonably expect from a populace that sees behavior as shown in the video above to be the normal way of doing business?

live smart not hard, move to canada and make a decent wage, all i can say.
i make 31$/hr to sit on a computer and read ATS posts all day, while doing my paperwork of course

a reply to: Kgdetroit

theflounce.com... this one talks about one perticual case that garnered attention on the net. what i found strange is that the water bill was 200 a month to begin with(my water is free so that really stood out) and that some people have thousands in some cases 80k in debt to water companies and that some larger offenders are not helping the situation

motorcitymuckraker.com... seems there is water in the houses that are abandoned but shutting off water to delinquent payees(i guess its not in the budget to turn off water to abandoned houses)

www.huffingtonpost.com... from 2010 and from Baltimore but i guess at least Detroit is not taking the path of Baltimore and forclosing on homes of those with debts for bills

www.washingtonpost.com... on the off chance any one on ats is flush with cash evidently there is a site that lets you pay down others delinquent debts if you felt so inclined

www.clickondetroit.com... video at link talks about how its over 100 million owed to the water company in question with it being split between corporations and private citizens debt wise

www.theatlantic.com...

It may not have been a police crackdown, but what she witnessed was definitely a crackdown of a sort. Since last year, the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department has been turning off water at the homes of customers behind on their bills. The shut-off campaign comes at a time of crisis and hastened recovery for Detroit, which became the largest American city to ever file for bankruptcy last summer. The value of the bonds associated with the water department’s debt comes to $5.7 billion, which constitutes almost one-third of the amount estimated to have pushed Detroit into bankruptcy.

also relevent i had no idea it was that bad money wise

originally posted by: eriktheawful

I didn't say anything is free, but water should be part of the national infrastructure, and should belong to everybody.
As for those with all their comms paid up I know nothing, neither should you.

a reply to: Destinyone

Surely clean water is a right to all people, regardless of povety?

Are they supposed to die?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Just what people have said - people in Detroit expect to have the things they don't want to bother being responsible for provided to them for free. They're like children who only want to pay for the things they want to pay for and for everything else "daddy" (government) should be in the house providing, and that means you and me through our taxes. The problem is that Detroit ran into the problem with socialism - They ran out of other people's money to spend.