ACA Subsidies ruled illegal

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: starfoxxx
ya even massechusetts mandated healthcare programs did this
if you couldn't afford the insurance it directed you to the medicaid which then turned you down no matter how little you made if you didn't either have a disability or dependents. except of course pregnant women!

I don't think you will have to pay a fine though.
I think, mind you I doubt if I know anything about how this all will end but
I think you will be exempt if the cost of the available insurance options are more than a certain percentage of your income and you cannot obtain the medicaid..
but still you more than likely will be paying taxes somehow that will end up being used for the healthcare system..
not much but when you don't have much that not much can seem like alot!

The ACA makes no sense, the goal was to 'insure' the uninsured, they were preaching and promising that.
It does not do that AT ALL. That in itself should be illegal, like fake advertising...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: starfoxxx

Well, apparently there is already a 501(c)(29) set up specifically for Qualified Nonprofit Health Insurance Issuers. So just force all insurance companies to be nonprofit - there's already IRS infrastructure to handle it.

www.journalofaccountancy.com...

Ha - like the insurance companies are just going to lay down and do that. They've gotten too rich and powerful, and they've got too many politicians in their pocket. The joys of capitalism...

the republican controlled house of representatives is going to vote on a bill to "force all insurance companies to be non-profit".......bwuhahahaha

originally posted by: starfoxxx

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: starfoxxx
ya even massechusetts mandated healthcare programs did this
if you couldn't afford the insurance it directed you to the medicaid which then turned you down no matter how little you made if you didn't either have a disability or dependents. except of course pregnant women!

I don't think you will have to pay a fine though.
I think, mind you I doubt if I know anything about how this all will end but
I think you will be exempt if the cost of the available insurance options are more than a certain percentage of your income and you cannot obtain the medicaid..
but still you more than likely will be paying taxes somehow that will end up being used for the healthcare system..
not much but when you don't have much that not much can seem like alot!

The ACA makes no sense, the goal was to 'insure' the uninsured, they were preaching and promising that.
It does not do that AT ALL. That in itself should be illegal, like fake advertising...

yes, it does do that.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: starfoxxx

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: starfoxxx
ya even massechusetts mandated healthcare programs did this
if you couldn't afford the insurance it directed you to the medicaid which then turned you down no matter how little you made if you didn't either have a disability or dependents. except of course pregnant women!

I don't think you will have to pay a fine though.
I think, mind you I doubt if I know anything about how this all will end but
I think you will be exempt if the cost of the available insurance options are more than a certain percentage of your income and you cannot obtain the medicaid..
but still you more than likely will be paying taxes somehow that will end up being used for the healthcare system..
not much but when you don't have much that not much can seem like alot!

The ACA makes no sense, the goal was to 'insure' the uninsured, they were preaching and promising that.
It does not do that AT ALL. That in itself should be illegal, like fake advertising...

yes, it does do that.

Let's say that I am uninsured right this moment.
How do I sign up on the exchanges right this moment?

some people have been signed up through the obamacare site for awhile now and I do believe that they make a payment every month and then the subsidy pays the rest.
so now the legality of those subsidies are in question.
if it is finally decided that they are indeed legal could all these people get a bill for the balance due because the subsidy was taken back??

but oh ya little peon!! the personal mandate is still in effect!! get insured or pay a fine!! We know you can't afford it but do it anyways! or face the penalty!!

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: starfoxxx

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: starfoxxx
ya even massechusetts mandated healthcare programs did this
if you couldn't afford the insurance it directed you to the medicaid which then turned you down no matter how little you made if you didn't either have a disability or dependents. except of course pregnant women!

I don't think you will have to pay a fine though.
I think, mind you I doubt if I know anything about how this all will end but
I think you will be exempt if the cost of the available insurance options are more than a certain percentage of your income and you cannot obtain the medicaid..
but still you more than likely will be paying taxes somehow that will end up being used for the healthcare system..
not much but when you don't have much that not much can seem like alot!

The ACA makes no sense, the goal was to 'insure' the uninsured, they were preaching and promising that.
It does not do that AT ALL. That in itself should be illegal, like fake advertising...

yes, it does do that.

Let's say that I am uninsured right this moment.
How do I sign up on the exchanges right this moment?

geez...you are online now, go and do a few minutes of research, I'm not going to hold you hand.

it sounds like he already has it directed him to medicaid which refused him because he has no dependents under 21.

and if they did help him get the insurance how does a person making only minumum wage find the funds to pay the deductible and co pay to make the insurance a worthy investment??
It's funny I do remember the words "Affordable Care" connected to this law somehow???

a reply to: jimmyx
I did.
The internet(healthcare.gov) tells me that open enrollment is closed for 2014. I have to wait until October 2014 to sign up for 2015. Unless you are special...

A time outside of the open enrollment period during which you and your family have a right to sign up for health coverage. In the Marketplace, you qualify for a special enrollment period 60 days following certain life events that involve a change in family status (for example, marriage or birth of a child) or loss of other health coverage.

Well in my hypothetical case, I lost coverage 61 days ago and I didn't know that I could qualify as special....
Now it is too late.
healthcare.gov
Are you sure that you don't want to hold my hand... Sounds to me like my hypothetical self could use a helping wallet!

even some gov't agencies has admitted that obamacare will not enable all people to obtain the insurance.
and well I would suggest that their will always be a group of people who find it next to impossible to get adequate healthcare because if they did manage to do this then they wouldn't have it as a future problem to be solved by fleecing us more with the promise of making it a reality!

a reply to: dawnstar

Let use my son as an example, 27, single, working as a server in a restaurant, makes 3.50 an hour (part time) the rest is depending on tips.

When he try to sign on the Obamacare exchange, the message he got was, you don't qualify, try to "enroll in your state Medicaid program", but guess what our GA state is one of the states that will be opting out for the Medicaid expansion, because after the initial Federal government pay off, the cost will be too great for the state tax payers without increasing taxes.

Under the rules on Medicaid in the state, my son, 27, single, actually do not make enough for even Medicaid if Medicaid was expanded.

Now we are waiting to see if he will be penalized for no qualifying for private insurance, because he doesn't make enough.

The irony of Obama care I don't care if you are poor, live under the poverty line, we just shove a mandatory insurance buying and the hell if you can afford it or not.

Obama care was never for the poor, The poor are still uninsured now people are finding out, but we all knew that from the beginning. Right?

a reply to: marg6043

That was not my daughter's experience in Washington State. She is 29, has a low paying job, diabetes, and got Obamacare with a good subsidy she can afford.

a reply to: marg6043
did he try here.......
www.healthcare.gov...
did he call here.....
www.healthcare.gov...

a reply to: jimmyx

We even call the Obamacare site hon, no help, he just makes under 14 thousand dollars last year, no enough for anything.

Poor, under poverty line, Obamacare doesn't want you. GA is a welfare state that only cater to breeders, immigrants and worthless people, but they will not expand Medicaid.

originally posted by: jimmyx
that's great.....let's all give a middle finger to those that can't afford medical insurance....if you are poor and/or sick...tough cookies, you are on your own. poor people just need to go away and die.

Yeah...lets give everyone anything they want that they can't afford. Are you willing to lead the way? I want a new car, a 60" flat screen and a new Gibson Les Paul. Without these...I won't be happy. To simplify it, let me know when you are ready and I'll give you my PalPal email.

I mean...after all, that is what you want everyone to do. Right?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: crankyoldman

They signed on for something that they could not afford only because the government offered then a handout to afford it - they do not do this with food, or water, or even energy.

Really? Where do you think you'd be without government subsidized roads, farms, dams and waterways, etc.? What would be the quality of our food without the FDA?

What on earth does on thing have to do with the other? Even worse you parsed my post, totally ignoring the premise of the point. The FDA has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING I WROTE and neither does anything else I wrote. I would repeat my point but it is clear you failed to comprehend what I wrote the first time. Please learn to read.

originally posted by: Dianec

originally posted by: crankyoldman
When this was enacted I was STUNNED by the stupidity of the entire populace, even those who claim to have been educated in some way.

Subsidies: Discounts that are NOT permanent.
Tax Credits: Rebates that are NOT permanent.

I am truly shocked at how stupid the population is. They signed on for something that they could not afford only because the government offered then a handout to afford it - they do not do this with food, or water, or even energy. What the ignorant population failed to see clearly is that the government can REVOKE those inducements at any time. Yes, the tax credits can go away, overnight, and then what? The subsidies, coupons, could be revoked overnight...

Consider going to a car lot and buying car with the dealer saying, "gee, we'll subsidize your payment at 100 dollars a month so you can afford this car you cannot afford, but, in the fine print we reserve the right to stop that 100 dollar payment at any moment." What happens in month three when the dealer stops sending you a 100 dollar check?

If the government was truly in the business of helping people, and they wanted to help people get insurance, the could have written a one page law: "Those who are NOT covered by the myriad of protections now, AND need insurance can pay into Medicare by paying 150 dollars a month or 2 percent of your net income."

That law already had viable Medicare structure in place, would be easy to understand and deal with and would have little to know effect on the economy. The government did not want this, it wanted the ACA for a reason, that reason is the population is stupid and actually believe things are "free."

Consider that NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE believed this to be a tax but Roberts. It is as if men went to the moon and reported back, "yep cheese." The law had to be saved by a magic trick espoused by ONE MAN!

This is not and never has been about health care.

Subsidies "were" based on being a good fortune teller too. To get your bottom line health care cost you needed to estimate what your gross income will be on your tax return for the following year. So they were also forcing people to gamble. What if Jo Smith lost his job during the year. He is paying based on an income of X amount but actually makes Y amount. He gets to pay all subsidies back with a big IRS bill.

This entire thing is about the dumbest thing this Country has ever tried to enact. I can't think of one thing as poorly thought out. Forcing people, via threat, to purchase something they cannot afford or do not want/need.

You raise a very salient point. The idea that you can be penalized by not accurately predicting your financial affairs is truly shocking. What is interesting about that is I assume at some level the failure to be a perfect soothsayer constitutes fraud. I expect the prison system will be looking at some new folks.

What I find most laughable is the idea that people who were covered for FREE via the various, Federal, State, County and City systems in place were SCREAMING for coverage where the only way they could afford the product was with subsidies, tax breaks, concessions, potential penalties and huge deductibles.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

there's a few differences that I would like to point out between a 60' flat sceen and a health care need.

The first and most obvious is that you aren't gonna suffer any serious side effects of death if you don't have the flat sceen tv.

one cannot walk with a broken ankle if it's neglected!

another is that I have never had a myriad of local, state, and federal taxes increase so that the gov't can give the poor a flat screen tv. not mention funding for research and development for bigger and better tvs!

take out all the tax revenue that goes to the healthcare industry in the many ways that it does and you may have a point. but as it is I don't think you do.

originally posted by: starfoxxx
The ACA makes no sense, the goal was to 'insure' the uninsured, they were preaching and promising that.
It does not do that AT ALL. That in itself should be illegal, like fake advertising...

Amen to that.
Add to the uninsured before ACA, all of those who lost their policies because they were not compliant, all those who got kicked off their insurance plans....and the misc others.

I can afford my premiums, with a subsidy, just barely, if I lose the subsidy......
What I cannot afford is the $6350 deductible before the insurance kicks in.....
I'd like to know how those people are paying/affording better plans with now deductibles.....anything better than Bronze is outrageous.

a reply to: crankyoldman

We are America. We make goals and get them done. We didn't worry about money when we built the Hoover Dam, and Social Security is a GOOD thing.

When we wanted to go to the moon, we did it. We didn't squawk about the price. It was a national effort. We can do an affordable national health care package too. We are America!

Yes there's corruption. There's always been corruption. My grandmother, RIP, could chew your ear off about corruption in the WWI-WWII era. Plenty of special interest hanky panky, but we got through, and we can get through this too.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

I see two or three big problems here, SS....who is going to tell the lawyers they need to cut the huge lawsuit amounts to make the single-payer affordable?
....who is going to tell bigPharma to cut their prices to make the single-payer affordable?
......who is going to tell Big Insurance their days of bloat is over to make the single-payer affordable?

And, how the hell is the middle class on down gonna afford the taxes and/or premiums so the government can provide single-payer????

No one ever seems to be able to answer that for me.