Vladimir Putin Breaks Silence on MH17 crash

a reply to: Xcathdra

I think it is prity Clear that borth sides are blaming each other.

I honestly dont understand how you can think that Russia wants to invite the US into a armed conflict. I dont see that at all. Why would russia want to invite the US if russia have a personal interest in Ukraine?

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Xcathdra

I think it is prity Clear that borth sides are blaming each other.

I honestly dont understand how you can think that Russia wants to invite the US into a armed conflict. I dont see that at all. Why would russia want to invite the US if russia have a personal interest in Ukraine?

By that same token, why would the U.S want to invite an armed conflict with Russia? They don't. They have stated it repeatedly in public that they don't view the Ukrainian crisis as worth starting world war 3 over. So why doesn't your logic go both ways?

How is it you can't see the obvious and most simple explanation, which is that rebels shot down the plane by accident, mistakenly believing it to be a Ukrainian military transport? The separatists themselves admitted it, posted video of it, and then deleted the evidence (yet it is clearly archived). They turned around and lied to the world about leaving the crash site untouched while they were literally filmed cutting the wreckage to pieces with power saws and shipping it out on trucks...

Are those the actions of a framed people? Is it not clear to you that they are the actions of a guilty party trying to cover its tracks?

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Xcathdra

I think it is prity Clear that borth sides are blaming each other.

I honestly dont understand how you can think that Russia wants to invite the US into a armed conflict. I dont see that at all. Why would russia want to invite the US if russia have a personal interest in Ukraine?

By that same token, why would the U.S want to invite an armed conflict with Russia? They don't. They have stated it repeatedly in public that they don't view the Ukrainian crisis as worth starting world war 3 over. So why doesn't your logic go both ways?

How is it you can't see the obvious and most simple explanation, which is that rebels shot down the plane by accident, mistakenly believing it to be a Ukrainian military transport? The separatists themselves admitted it, posted video of it, and then deleted the evidence (yet it is clearly archived). They turned around and lied to the world about leaving the crash site untouched while they were literally filmed cutting the wreckage to pieces with power saws and shipping it out on trucks...

Are those the actions of a framed people? Is it not clear to you that they are the actions of a guilty party trying to cover its tracks?

All i can say is that both russia and the US have personal interest With Ukraine. What i see is that the Ukrainians are stuck in the middle of a conflict of interest between Russia and the US.

If MH17 was shot Down by mistake is at this point nothing but a Guess.

There are still questions to be answered because:

- Why did Mh17 diviate from its fligth coridoor and 14km to the North of it?

- What was the second radar mark that showed up after the Mh17 was freefalling towards the ground? It couldnt have been debries because it was on radar for 4min after the intitial mark of Mh17 disappeared from radar.

- Why didnt the US or >Russia detect any BUK missile being fired?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Shana91aus

The only nail hit hit was his thumb.

You guys rant and rave over claims with no proof, except when it comes from your side.

No one is going to win in a nuclear war.
Russia would lose in a conventional war.
The west will not start a war with Russia.
Putin strikes me as the idiotic type who would start a war with the west just to try and to prove how big his rubles are.
Ukraine has every right to protect its territorial sovereignty from Russian backed rebels.
Ukraine has every right to associate with and sign agreements with whatever country it chooses.
This is not the 1980's, Russia is not the Soviet Union, The Russian army is not the Soviet Army, and Putin is not Lenin. Someone should have him live in the now and face reality - his actions have blown up in his face and he is desperately trying to figure out how to blame anyone for his screw up.

What did i say in that post that you want proof about? Im ranting and raveing because im expressing my opinion??? yet you are doing the exact same thing (expressing your opinion) but because mine is different to yours im ranting and raveing, well ok then

a reply to: Xcathdra

How were they debunked? Genuine question , this is new news to me.

I'm with Xcathedra on this one.
Thank you for those posts.

And - not naming anyone - I will simply refuse to reply to posters who display the same type of aggressive paranoia as some of the Donetsk rebels do, according to articles yesterday and the day before. Look around for any interview with the leaders, and you will read things like American journalists taken to custody because the rebels imagine that America is at war with them. And that this is so obvious that it does not even merit questioning. Plus that any person who holds a US passport or is a worker of a Western newspaper equals to trained military who could be detained for some imagined collective responsibility.

This is a grave misperception of global reality. In the case of rebels, it is a massive mind control operation in Russian that was started long ago. So they practically live in a different, constructed reality, where the Maidan events equal to open US aggression.
While it could be perhaps argued that the US and some Western organizations supported Maidan, including some questionable parties in it (Pravy Sector), they simply could not have started and maintained the entire action with hundreds of thousands of people participating for months. You needed a Russian-installed corrupt oligarch ruler for that who would not even symbolically change his direction (Yanukovich).

There could be far more reasons for people speaking Russian only and having lived in fear of confrontation between their nationalistic countrymen and the nationalistic Ukrainians to adopt this twisted and simplistic way of looking at world events (everyone is against us true Russians because we have a special role in history), but if an English-speaking Westerner falls into the same pothole, I can only fault the party that screwed up the road with methodical work. Wasn't Mr. Putin an intel chief after all?

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
Maybe if he is really in support of a transparent international investigation he should start by giving back the black boxes the rebels shipped to moscow? Or put pressure on the separatists to allow access to the crash site for investigators? The problem with Vladimir Putin lately is that nothing that comes out of his mouth is in line with his actions.

They never gave the black boxes to Moscow, nor did Moscow want them.

Malaysian officials went to Donetsk and were handed the black boxes in a formal meeting.