Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Agreed, my first thought was toilet paper.

a reply to: bigfoot007

Just want to see this puzzle completed, it is an interesting one...
Don't get me wrong too, it is horrible what has happen, but since 9/11 certain pattern is emerging.
Disturbing one...

a reply to: jazzgul

I'm a dog owner myself and I know I would send such message only in the case I knew something is happening . Something which might reduce my possibility of taking care about my beloved dog myself...

And you obviously wouldn't need to send this if you had made previous arrangements for somebody to take care of your dog and everything was fine.

On the other hand would you say take care of my dog LEXI if there was an emergency situation? Wouuldn't you send "something is happening, I love you, take care of my dog...."?

Would you call your dog by its name as if the recipient of the message didn't know it's name?

I mean you would either say take care of Lexi or possibly take care of my dog, but not take care of my dog Lexi.


Seriously this is starting to feel like 911 all over again with the wierd, almost scripted phone calls.

Produced of the script; "this is the message of this and this girl, and she has a dog named Lexi".

So the flight attendant knew there was trouble on the plane before take off and no one does anything, no word, for hours, except her.

I might buy into her alone, getting a feeling of uneasiness, and therefore send that message content. That 'bad feeling' we sometimes get but usually doesn't amount to anything.

a reply to: roadgravel

So she decided to freak out her mother with such a message, over a gut feeling? Why not I love you?

Who fired the SA-11 seems to be the question. So, let's do some math to try to answer this.

Below is the engagement range of the SA-11. The maximum possible range is just under 50km:



Source

Let's assume the missile was fired at the most extreme range, which is unlikely, but let's say it was. What does this look like on a map?



Map

50 km is about 31 miles. Using the scale presented in the map (20 miles), I have drawn a black circle with a 31 mile radius. The center of the circle is where MH17 crashed. The rebels control the crash site. The area enclosed by the red dashed line is where there is rebel activity.

So, which is more probable:

a) A Ukrainian SA-11 drove to a firing position inside the area of rebel activity, and then fire?
b) A rebel SA-11 fired?

a reply to: AstralTrespass

to be fair, that "my dog Lexi" thing might just be lazy journalism, ensuring they can get both the message as well as the name of the dog across in one sentence. certainly an odd message, but i don't think this is gonna lead to much of anything.

a reply to: AstralTrespass

What is wrong about a person using the dog name even it the other person knows it. We sometimes say dog or the dog name. Just the way conversations differ. Maybe she always says the name because of the way she thinks about the dog.

Her family might know that one if it is even meaningful.

originally posted by: AstralTrespass
a reply to: roadgravel

So she decided to freak out her mother with such a message, over a gut feeling? Why not I love you?

We don't know how that works with them. Maybe her mother forgets. Maybe the woman is overly protective and worries so she likes to remind to care for her pet.

a reply to: roadgravel

We sometimes say dog or the dog name.

You even admit it yourself now.

You say dog, or the dog's name, you don't say "my dog Lexi" to someone that knows both you and your dog's name.

a reply to: ionwind

Just to point out a slight flaw in your logic.

You centred the circle on the crash site, thats NOT the same as the impact site. See, planes have something called momentum. They keep moving in their original direction of travel even while crashing, due to it.

Given that the dispersal area is about 10 miles long (a previous poster stated this), I would say, that would suggest that the missile impacted the plane, quite some distance away from the final crash site, making your data and analysis largely incorrect.

It was a nice attempt though.

originally posted by: javelinfangz
a reply to: AstralTrespass

to be fair, that "my dog Lexi" thing might just be lazy journalism, ensuring they can get both the message as well as the name of the dog across in one sentence. certainly an odd message, but i don't think this is gonna lead to much of anything.

Good point, it is possible she texted "take care of Lexi" and the journalist added "my dog", but that still leaves the question why she would text such a thing to the person she logically had already made arrangements with?

a reply to: AstralTrespass
Well, we should know first in which language the message was sent originally, please remember that every language has its own construction and now you think only in english speaking terms..
I agree with you on that smell of the scripted scenario thou...

a reply to: AstralTrespass

Yes, we have said dog(s) and names together, every combination. This train is so far off the tracks...

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: AstralTrespass

Yes, we have said dog(s) and names together, every combination. This train is so far off the tracks...

Ok so you keep adding stuff.

So let me get this straight, you and your woman have a dog and its name is Fido. You both know its name is Fido.

So you are seriously suggesting that you sometimes say to your woman, something along the lines of: "Honey, I am going to take our dog Fido for a walk!" "Ok hun, I'm sure our dog Fido would love that!"

Get out of here.

originally posted by: BMorris
a reply to: ionwind

Just to point out a slight flaw in your logic.

You centred the circle on the crash site, thats NOT the same as the impact site. See, planes have something called momentum. They keep moving in their original direction of travel even while crashing, due to it.

Given that the dispersal area is about 10 miles long (a previous poster stated this), I would say, that would suggest that the missile impacted the plane, quite some distance away from the final crash site, making your data and analysis largely incorrect.

It was a nice attempt though.

Ten miles is still within the 31 mile radius. Move the circle on the map around in your head. The analysis is still largely correct.

A plane hit by a missile like this tends to come down very quickly. Take a look at this video where a radar guided missile hits a remote controlled plane. You will notice two things, the plane goes into a dive, and there is no smoke.

a reply to: ionwind

The problem with your assertion is that you know exactly where the lines are for Ukrainian/Separatist forces.

This is highly unlikely with the situation that prevails in Ukraine.

The battlefield is highly fluid (that is why it is called ATO), so it is quite possible for Ukraine to move a battery close enough so that it is within range of the said plane.

Ukrainian government is engaging in heavy propaganda, so it is hard to believe them.

After searching I have found a picture of the crashed aircraft showing the number, indeed it is RD.

Related to tweets posted by Kiev air traffic controller. Tweets can be found somewhere in the middle of this thread.

Jul 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

www.eturbonews.com...

While it is very much possible that the civil plane was mistook as military and shot down, assigning blame on somebody within minutes is laughable.